Hi All:<P>My SIL, who is a hairdresser, cut my H's hair Sat. morning. I think he feels she is still somewhat sympathetic to him so he will tell her what's going on. I try not to ask so I know very little. <P>For those of you who don't know my situation, H left me twice to live with same OW over a number of years. Never stayed with her for any length of time. After taking him back and nursing him through by-pass surgery, he started up again with her and last March and I finally told him he could not come back unless and until he finally made break with OW. Since then have decided not sure want him back at all, but have continued to PLan A last four months.<P>OW's been living for last three years in the East (We live in Texas) and just recently came back to Texas while her H was doing some retraining in another state. While she was here, H moved out to be with her and they were living in an old trailer house at the lake. Late in August she left again to go back to her H. My H has been living at trailer house by himself (I think).<P>Well, H confided in SIL that OW had come back again and brought her H with her to live in the trailer house. My H has supposably gone to live with someone else.<BR>OW's husband will be transferred somewhere in the near future. My SIL's impression is that OW is trying to force my H to do something he won't do by flanting her H in his face. She has done this before.<P>Sounds crazy doesn't it. But OW has done things like this all along. This is her second marriage since she and H got involved.<BR>I'm just hoping that this time he will hit bottom and get over her.<P>Meanwhile, my daughter was in town and she, SIL and neice harranged me for two days about how sorry my H was and why I didn't just move on. I tried to explain how mixed up and conflicted I thought my H was, but they don't want to hear, they just think I should get away from him.<P>It's hard when you feel like you're the only one supporting your marriage and everyone else feels you are wrong (even his own sister and niece). Am I wrong? Do I need to just move on? I sometimes feel that I could do better on my own? My H's affair has been financially very hard on us and I am still suffering the consequences. He is taking advantage of me at work (we work together) by taking the money that comes in and doling out what he thinks I need.<P>If I could just leave him in the dirt, then he would have to pay someone a salary to do what I do (and a good one...more then he could really afford). I don't think I owe him anything now and I do feel sorry for him, but I cannot continue to sacrifice my well being for someone who has basically just s**t on me over and over again. <P>Maybe I'm just realing from the onslaught of negativism that I have received this weekend, but I really need some support.<P>Buffy<BR>

Buffy,<P>How are you? You rarely post so I know you must being having a really hard time.<P>I didn't realize that your H has been doing this off/on for so damn long to you, and to himself.<P>Who the heck is this OW anyway??? She is such a coniving ***ch. Her actions are so devious and calulating. Why can't these men see their actions are contrived and not sincere.<P>I know what you mean about everyone that loves you wants you to move on. I get it alot from all in-laws and good friends, they all want me to D my H.<P>Is your Plan A getting harder for you to do? Do you still love your H? Can you see yourself w/him again and can you respect him after all this? <P>Those questions are so hard to answer ... when I think of them I tell myself IF my H was to change back to who he was before OW I think I could take him back, but I'll tell ya, things would have to be very different because I'm not the same person anymore. I want to honor myself and I want who's with me to honor me too. And most importantly I need to be able to respect the man I'm with, that means no Lies. Don't you think that's important?<P>In all this time with the A going on, have you ever seen a sign from your H that he loves you still? Has he ever displayed any remorse or empathy for you and what you've been thru? That would help me decide, it would show me that he knows what he's doing is wrong and he knows he's hurting you and it weighs on him. He has a conscience.<P>Buffy, Honey, I think you might want to quit that job and find another one where you don't see your H on a daily basis. He needs to NEED you. He has you there to bail him out both financially and emotionally. Whenever he is in trouble I bet he turns to you and not OW for his support. Am I right. I know I have just known you for a short time .... but even I naturally gravitate to you for help because you're so caring and have great insight into people's feelings. You have so much empathy and understanding in your heart ... it shines thru even in virtual land. So I can imagine your H needs you more than you can see. <P>But whats most important is YOU right now. You're not happy and haven't been in a long time. I think it's time to at least find another job where you don't see him daily. It would be good for you and your H would need to find his own emotional strength or get it from OW. And it's very unlikely she'll be able to fit the bill. <P>Can I ask a question. What need is this OW fulfilling in your H. Have you figured that out? For my H, OW is filling my H's sexual needs. But that was all, I was filling the rest. <P>Post back to me, Buffy. I'd like to know how you're doing. You are such a good person, I wish I could fix this for you. <P>Love & Hugs,<BR>Jo

Yeah, what Resilient said. . .<P>You have helped me so many times, but I am kinda a dummy at this stuff. . .I don't know what to say that would show that I care. But Resilient was right on.<P>Get another job!!! Don't let yourself be walked on! You're too good for this! Make him want you--you're there to serve his purpose, and it's not fair to you. You're not a workhorse, and it doesn't sound like you are getting the appreciation that you deserve. You're only getting dumped on.<P>You deserve to be loved, too.<P>I would lay it on the line. Quit your job with him and make yourself scarce in his life--(tell him what you intend, first, of course) then he will know what he is missing.<P>Yeah, scary, I know. (Like the point I'm at, I making myself scarce for other reasons, kind of a modified Plan B.) You wonder if you will be a part of his life again if you do this--after all, you love him. He's your husband.<P>I just hate to see someone being used and not appreciated, and not getting at least a vote of thanks, let alone now being respected as a spouse. You deserve far better.

Buffy,<P>I've been trying to get to you all evening, but the whole fam keeps lurking over my shoulders every time I get online.<P>My H would probably leave me if he sees me in here right now, b/c I've been avoiding him and doing LB's bigtime b/c of his No response to my disliking the no-contact letter he wrote to OW.<P>I think you are brave to have stood your ground regarding his not coming back until he is done with OW.<P>I know how you feel about not being sure you even want him back. I feel this way 80% of the time. So much damage has been done and I know way too many details of his affair and how he felt about her.<P>It does sound crazy, how can he still want her after two marriages since his involvement with her? She is one sicko. I just don't understand women who think so little of themselves.<P>I also know how you feel about being the only one supporting the marriage. Family and friends ignore us or critique him to me all the time. I hate to even mention his name around them.<P>Sometimes, alot of times, I feel like I could do better and I feel so trapped in this "go nowhere" relationship.<P>I know you feel sorry for him but don't owe him anything. I feel this way too. Maybe we show that emotion too much in front of them, and they take us for granted and we fill that void in their lives that the OW can't and they grow to depend on us so much.<BR>They get kind of like a lost puppy that doesn't know which way to go home...<P>I really think that we make the choice to sacrifice our well-being. It really isn't fair to us to continue to make this choice. It is so hard to decide what is best. There are so many determining factors.<P>Is your marriage a first for you and for him?<BR>Do you have children? Children are a strong pull in this struggle.<P>I know I haven't helped you make any decisions and probably can't. I just wanted to let you know I was thinking about you and hoping you are ok and I wish I could be there for you. Life's a beach, ain't it !!!<P>Hopefully she will go far, far, away with her 2nd. H and leave your H. for good. That's not much consolation, knowing you will be the runner-up, is it?<P>That's what I settled for!!!<P>Sincerely, Cathy<p>[This message has been edited by Catplay (edited September 18, 2000).]

Buffy,<P>Checked in this morning specifically to check on you. How are you?<P>I'll be on/off the board today to see if you've responded. <P>You know we love you Buffy, you have our support and thoughts. <P>Please let us know how you're doing.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited September 18, 2000).]

Hi All:<P>Thanks for your responses. I've been too busy today to reply but I will do so later when I stop running. I'm leaving work now and have several places to go before I'll be home where I can reply. <P>Buffy

Well, I'm back home at last.<P>Yes again I think I've asked a question to which I already have the answer, but don't want to listen even to myself. I quess that's why I react so strongly to in-laws non-support of me. My mind tells me this is moving toward Plan B...not because Plan A is such an effort but because I think A could continue indiffinitely under Plan A because I'm partially supporting it...to my own detriment. This is too comfortable for H...having needs met by everyone...not really supplying the needs of anyone completely in return. This pattern has been going on too long...in time, OW will get tired of not getting what she wants and break it off (again) and he will make moves to come home again...to vegitate for a while at home until such time as she decides she wants another round. <P>I know my H loves me...he just wants this other life...because it's aimless and carefree, totally void of responsibility. In fact, he can walk away from OW tomorrow and he will never feel quilt. Back to that old "Where's the consequences?" question.<BR>There are none as long as I continue to wait at home...ready to take him back. <P>So you see, the answer is pretty plain. Home is where my H knows he belongs...so he doesn't really break any ties with home...just ventures out into the "real" world enough to be able to run home if things get too bad. I have to take away the comfort of a home to run to so that he's forced to deal with what happens in his "fantasy" world. But I have to take my world apart to do that...and in a way giving OW just what she wants...him free of me.<BR>Right now I think I'm his only protection against her...that's why he doesn't want a divorce. Because that's what she wants the most. In a way by staying in the business, I'm protecting what's mine...my investment in the business from her. <P>No, there are no easy answers. So, I stay in Plan A until such time as some event drives me to need to go to Plan B. That just hasn't occurred so far.<P>Buffy<P><BR>

Hi Again:<P>To answer your questions:<P>Jo:<BR>Yes, it has been going on a long time...but the periods of the actual affair have been short. OW is just a piece of trash...no other way too describe her...she's totally lacking in morals...she's a drunk...she's lost both her kids...and played around on all her husbands.<P>Yes, H does love me...and he basically is a good man..but he is self-centered, self indulgent and lacks motivation. And he tries, but he just doesn't know how to relate to anyone on more then a surface level. So his needs are mainly physical(affection) and admiration (because he has low self-esteem). So OW gives him plenty of sex and attention (for a while) then gets tired of no commitment in return and moves on. Why she keeps coming back, I don't understand. <P>But there comes a time when you have just had enough, when all you want to do is run (like Allison) and keep on running. You've given and given until you feel you have no more to give. It's time for you to stop giving and lay it all down and rest. I'm just fast reaching that point. And it's not really anything H has done, I just tired of fighting and like Geronimo want "to fight no more forever." <P>Bernzini:<P>No, I've never been given the appreciate I deserved...that's one of the things that most people find hard to believe about his leaving me...that he would leave me for something like OW. But that's the issue with EN...he is unappreciative of what I offer him because it's not important to him.<BR>I am very strong and capable but he resents that...or he resents the fact that he's not and I am. I've always been hurt because I've felt I have far exceeded my role as a wife in most areas, but he has choosen to overlook all those areas and base his judgment of my value as a wife on the few areas where I am lacking. In return, OW is lacking in most areas but proficent in a few areas that are important to him. So he will overlook her shortcomings to prevail himself of her good points. But you know some of my stong points are very important to him in ways he doesn't acknowledge...even to himself...no relationship with OW will ever be entirely satisfactory.<P>Cathy:<P>This is a twenty-five year one only marriage for both of us. We have two grown children...who can hardly stand to be in the same room with their father...he may never recover their relationship...but to tell you the truth, they have never been close anyway.<BR>Like I said, he is a good man, but he does not deal with people on an emotional basis.<BR>I've always been the one my children looked to for love and support. I feel sorry that he will never know that feeling in his life...I would not have given anything for it.<P>As for his coming back, there will be some "crawling on the knees" before that happens again. And he doesn't realize that the more time passes the less of a possibility that is. I have freed myself of the affair and OW by taking myself out of the picture. With time I may free myself of him as well.<P>*********<BR>Anyway, I guess I save up all this verbosity for ever-once-in-a-while. I know you all are grateful. But I do thank you for your responses...sometimes we just need someone to listen and say "yeah, you're right. He is a dog." I don't post topics often...because I don't really like talking about myself and after all this time I have worked out most of the issues...just don't know if there are any real answers. I've always been the type of person who thought all problems had solutions if you just worked hard enough at find them. Sometimes there are no workable solutions that resolve the matter to your liking. But I'll keep trying and I'll be here for you if you'll be here for me when I need it.<P>Love and thanks, Buffy.<P> <P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited September 19, 2000).]

Dear Buffy,<P>My H is also emotionally unavailable to me and our children. They ( the kids ) want him to love them and acknowledge them so badly and he does, but in his own way. Which is not exactly what they need.<P>He is also emotionally unavailable to me. Probably always will be. When I think about it, he always has been. It took the A and turning over the stones for me to realize it.<P>I too have always been the one to give the love and support to the children. Not that I would have had it any other way, but it does get old and tiring and you begin to resent the other parent b/c they give so little and sometimes you need a break from the day to day and he is just not going to do it or really, doesn't even know where to begin or how to do it( be a parent ).<P>I know I'm just comparing notes with you, but my H was also taken up in the A with the fantasy and wishing his life with me could be so void of responsibilities. He loves me, I know this, but I or we represented to much hard work for him. The OW created a wonderful safe haven for him. Her kids are grown and gone and she had nothing but her government job and my H. to focus on. I guess you could compare their lives as that of newly weds.<P>I wish so badly that your H would come to his senses and realize before it's too late what a wonderful person you are and what you represent to him.<P>Before I was involved with this site, I did most of the ideas here without knowing they were the right thing to do. However, I did make some decisions on my own that are not supported here. I was also providing a place for H to run to when he was tired or weary from her ( guilty feelings ). I told my sister how this was driving me over the edge and she told me in no uncertain terms that it was up to me to put a stop to it.<P>I finally told him he must make a decision between OW and me. I was not going to keep up the charade any longer. I would be fine, if he choose her and left me forever, it would not be what I had hoped for, but I would go on and be fine. <P>Whether he actually believed me or not I'll never know. But, he came back (unhappily ) at first, but as time has gone on things have gotten much better, with the exception of the recent phone calls from OW about his car and getting her the diet herbal products. So far so good. <P>Maybe you should give him an ultimatum! Call his bluff, I know it's dangerous to do this, but you have the right to treat yourself with dignity and respect and to expect him to also treat you the same. You deserve this much. I vote for telling him, it's you or the OW once and for all. Don't keep this up, it will destroy the beautiful person you are inside. <P>I bet you are so precious, with a name like Buffy you have to be!!!<P>Love to you,<BR>Cathy