I read so much stuff about my WS (wife) being in love with OM, never felt that way before, "ever", gets butterflies seeing him, loves being with him, thinks of him all the time, but knows it can't last forever because of the "situation", whatever that is. I don't know if I can take that. We used to say how strong our feelings were, now it is like that thing we had (never having felt this way) has been overtaken. Are these things normal during the fog/fantasy? I just need to hear something, because I don't know that I can continue to Plan A, and even withstand this....will that stuff ever end?<P>Would you advice telling her what I read and how I got to it?<P>How about sending a letter to OM asking him to stop seeing her. He is along for the ride (ie. sex) because I believe he is forbidden from being involved (parents), probably other stuff I don't know of. I suspect you think I should not do that. I'm just very sickened now and have alot of stuff going through my mind, because this was worse than I thought is was (her feelings...or at least what she thinks they are).<P>Thank you...<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited September 20, 2000).]

Rick - only have a sec while Robert is in the shower, but I had to answer you.<P>More than a year ago, and for months afterwards, this is what I heard:<P>She makes me feel wonderful.<BR>I finally know what real love is.<BR>Our marriage was a mistake.<BR>We've never felt like this about each other.<BR>I finally know what it's like to find my soulmate.<BR>I can't live without her in my life. We have to divorce as soon as possible. I have to do "the right thing" and I can't live with you knowing I don't really love you.<BR>PT is everything in the world to me.<P>And so on and so on.......<P>He left me, moved in with her. Saw a lawyer about adopting her wee one, opened joint bank accounts, started looking at house plans for their "dream house". Add to this that our little PT is 20 years younger than I am, ok?<P>I guess you picked up on the fact that, tonight, Robert is in the shower? Almost nine months ago, he asked to come home after 6 months of living with his "soulmate". Don't get me wrong, I know how much he cared for her and how much he loved her...it's real love, just not LASTING love and there's a big difference! He's been home for 8 months, and, in case you've never heard of us, we're doing very nicely, thank you very much....better than ever in our lives.<P>I know it's hard...I do remember. But none of what she says or feels right now is written in stone. You cannot let her words or actions dictate what yours will be. Your actions and words must be based on what you BELIEVE in....deep in your heart....not what the "alien" is saying right now. Trust me...this, too, will pass.<P>Hang in there, OK? This ride ain't for wimps, but it does get easier.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Thank you so very much. As you can probably tell, this has suddenly hit me quite hard. I needed to hear what you told me. I can't say thanks enough, but hopefully you get the picture.

YEs, I too heard that he had never been in-love with me, etc. He even went back and read his own journals and said he guessed he must have been based on what he wrote back then...<P>Big time cofusion, emotions are not to be played with and that's what the WS have done.<P>Now he says (and acts) like he is very much in-love with me, it is better than before!<P>I don't think going to the OM is a good idea. She needs to be willing to send a no contact letter.<P>Again, many would say that attempting to educate her is an LB, but it's never what you say but how you say it. Reading SAA was like throwing a life vest to a drowning man. He was willing to work on the marriage because he realized there WAS hope.

Ok, thanks. I'm getting the book....I'll have it sent to our door and she'll see it. I kept hesitating on the book, waiting for the right time. Now is the time.

You need to tell her you know and that <BR>you are not a doormat. Tell her does she<BR>realize what she is risking concerning her<BR>future with you. A touch of reality would<BR>be a good thing for her. Stand up and be<BR>strong. Women do not respect wimps.<BR>Good Luck

Rick...I agree that you must NOT be a doormat! But Plan A is not at ALL about being a doormat and if you're doing that then you're not doing it right! One of the things Robert commented on when he came home was how "strong" I was (still does) and how much he respects that strength. How surprised he was to see I had it in me. <P>And I NEVER made an ultimatum, never stopped Plan A, never "drew a line". I kept my pride, I kept my self-respect and I was lucky enough to keep my marriage as well...All because of Plan A.<P>Bryan's right, nobody respects a wimp...but Plan A isn't for wimps anyway...only the strong survive.<P>And I forgot...DON'T contact OM. Also watch what you say. For almost the first time, Schizzo and I differ a little here (Hi, Honey, how're you doing???? )....our spouse determines whether or not something is a lovebuster and sometimes, some subjects, no matter how carefully we approach them, simply make our spouses uncomfortable and, during an affair, THAT'S a lovebuster. Things work much differently in a recovering or a healthy marriage. Then you can approach anything as long as you do in in a non-threatening, non-judgemental manner.<P>Hang in there...you'll be ok.<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Rick:<P>You're getting pretty good advice here. Plan A should be focused on eliminating "lovebusters", especially:<P>Angry Outbursts<BR>Disrespectful Judgements<BR>Selfish Demands<BR>Dishonesty<BR>(and pick up your dirty clothes, as well... )<P>All the stuff your wife is doing is normal and typical of an affair---and if you get Surviving an Affair, you'll probably giggle at how well it describes your situation.<P>As Lori put it, the love your wife feels for this guy is "real". You should acknowledge this, certainly internally if not externally with your wife. Harley would tell you that "love" is conditional, and just as your wife fell in and out of love with you, it's (more) likely to happen with the OM as well. And she can also fall back into love with you---given the right conditions.<P>At this point, any educating, demanding, controlling you're going to try will be big lovebusters. You can let your wife know that this situation causes you great distress, and that it drains your love for her---but don't do that repeatedly. I'm sure that she realizes this already.<P>You need to support your wife. Let her know over and over that you love her and are willing to do *anything* to make the marriage terrific for her (short of giving her a divorce). She's going to have to make the hard decisions to end the affair for herself---if you try to force her, it's not very likely that the effort will be long-lasting.<P>Keep away from lovebusters...<P>

Dear rick37,<BR> I'm lucky because my W tells me almost everything about OP. She's tired of the situation but I feel it must be her choice.<BR> Story with OM EA and friendship but hard on me. Being going own 6 months and I feel that I've worked quite a lot on my<BR> own and W will know that I won't wait forever. Told W yesterday that my lv for her strong very strong but won't last<BR> forever. All I say is Patience, Time, and Consistency and things will go in one or the other direction. Have faith W knows<BR> that sooner or later my do something.<BR> Something beautiful that Karenna told me weeks ago.<BR> Your can't chase her and be needy if you want her to love you. Work on being the best HUSBAND to HER, and be the best<BR> person you can be. Let go the dependence on her reations and affirmations. Do what you do because it is good an right,<BR> not because you fear losing her.<BR> This is so true and W told me the she he me happy with myself and this tells me that she will decide what to do sooner or<BR> later. <BR> Remember: Patience, Time, and Consistency<BR>j

Dear Rick:<P>I'm sure you'll get a lot of replies on this one because this is something all of us can pretty much identify with.<P>Yes, H said the same. "I love you, but I'm not "in love" with you."<BR>"She is my soulmate" "She lights up my life"<BR>Word for word from the "Cheater's Handbook." <BR>We've all hear these phrases.<P>The mistake I think you're making is trying to reason with her...you can't...stop trying...and all this reasoning and lecturing is probably a LB to her....and it's certainly doing you no good to listen to the ramblings of a "foggy" person.<P>Make no mistake, as others have said, these feelings are real (to WS) but that doesn't mean you have to subject yourself to continued reiterations of them.<P>While the affair is ongoing...if the WS will not end contact...no discussion of relationships (either with you or OP) will be fruitful. Plan A is a time to work on changing yourself to better meet the needs of your wife and to make her aware that you are making an effort to change. This refocusing on yourself and your issues takes the emphasis off of the affair and OP and will allow your WS time to work through her conflicted feelings. <P>Ever since I quit trying to reason with H and let him make his own choices, I have felt free of the "victimization" or "doormat" feeling. After all it is desperation that makes us a "doormat" not strength. <P>Buffy<P> <BR>

We all hear a lot of weird stuff...so much so, that there's a great old thread on what the WS says...<P>If you want to check it out:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/19991122-1-003658.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/19991122-1-003658.html</A>

rick,<P>You are not likely to see results until you relax and stick to Plan A. Relax seems like an impossible word right now, but you CAN detach yourself from LB anger, disrespect, etc. It's true about the fog, the uselessness of lecture and reasoning. Healing has to happen on its own timetable. You cannot rush it.<P>Do the best you can...don't worry if you make mistakes. Don't be too hard on yourself. Vent here and vent often.<P>Funny how each Ws feels that they are unique, yet the pattern is almost always the same.<P>Tell her you love her, stand tall. Stick it out, it's worth it!<P>DM

Thanks everyone for the wonderful thoughts/advice. You all know how it is needed. I ordered SAA and His Needs/Her Needs today...finally. I definitely need to stick to Plan A, I realize that. I don't think I've been doing a really good one thus far. Not enough of changing some things that she is currently getting elsewhere.<P>Here is a question. She sees excitement in doing fun activities, going out alot, being free, the secret and strong passion, being outgoing. The past year she was after me for more of those things, hence I'm where I am now. But I've always had to worry about changing diapers, paying bills, planning for retirement, raising children, maintaining a house, cars, grass, etc. OM has none of that...puts me behind the 8 ball I think. <P>When your wife is in the fog and sees these things as so important, what do you do to Plan A? I have to be home (she's out), I have to work, and do all those other things. Besides doing no LBs, how does one satisfy some of the other things she sees as so important. It almost just seems like she has to come to her own conclusion that staying is better than leaving, and then we work on doing more together, being more passionate etc. Know what I mean? <P>The passion she is getting isn't wanted from me now, so can't do much on that one. <P>Any thoughts or suggestions on Plan A? I know it is about being a better person etc., ...maybe I don't know enough about it. I know we needed more togetherness and passion, and we both are to blame, but I can't do anything about those things now.<P>Once again, thank you for all the support.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited September 21, 2000).]