Wrote H letter and gave it to him tonight because I can not talk anymore. Told him its not fair to either of us to live like this. Said maybe he should move out and find himself. I'm crying now so I'm sorry if I rattle on. I don't want this I wrote that but I can not continue with his mental abuse. When I gave him the letter I left to go to my Moms house and said I'd be back in an hour we could talk then. His reply was maybe not. I hoped all the way home he left and that the hurting may stop maybe he realize after 10 months he had to do something but not. I'm tired of being alone, being told maybe its time to leave again, getting F--ked and not made love to-thats how he puts it. I'm tired of stroking his ego and having mine not count. I'm tired of his remarks that make me feel its over. I'm tired with no where to turn. I dont want it to end but how can I keep having the knife he put in months ago turned. He had nothing to say when I came home just pretends to sleep I kissed him good night and here I am crying once again for something thats most likely over to him.

JTR,<P>I'm so sorry for your pain honey! Gosh, your letter really got to me, I really feel a lot of empathy for you. You know, when my H was still in our home, I felt like you. I thought it's better to have him home where we will at least be together, talk, etc. But, that emotional abuse is torturous!<P>Then, when he moved into his own apartment I was devastated. But you know what although I am still in a lot of pain and anguish over this roller coaster, I am also getting stronger. I didn't think I would get to this place, but here I am. We're in counseling, with miniscule steps to I don't know where...but still hanging in there. Not having him in the house mean no more 24-7 of words that might pierce my heart yet again, or being close physically but not emotionally, being ignored, not having my needs met, etc. <P>He is avoiding you, and really he can't help himself. I don't think anyone chooses to hurt the ones they really love, or once was close to and devoted to. I think giving him that letter was a good place to start. Hope things look better in the morning, get some rest if you can. You'll need your strength for yet another day.<P>Take care, MT<BR>

Hi, Sweetie.<P>Just stopped in to check on you this morning. Noticed that you didn't reply to your other thread....so what are you planning to do?<P>I'm sorry that your letter didn't have an effect of him , but you really didn't think it would, did you? It's not time yet....you can't "reach" him yet, not in words.<P>Honey, I'm so sorry that you hurt. I remember how very painful it all is. But if you want this marriage, you have got to be willing to take another approach. Face it, the one you've been taking hasn't worked and you're just falling deeper and deeper into depression and he's withdrawing more and more. If something doesn't work, it's time to stop trying to use it, right?<P>Now, talk to us. Tell us what you want, what you're gonna do next. We can help you get there, if you're ready.<P>Take care....<P>Love and prayers,<P>Lori

Well he sure did talk this morning. I think hes leaving. He was very mad slaming things wants to know if I called mu F'in lawyer. I told him no. He told me he wasn't doing anything he wass mentally all screwed up. He took his vigara. I check his draw. Thats it he left for work no goodbye no nothing. He says he had a hard time just getting through the day I told him aI did to. I think what I did pushed him to her. I promised myself I would cry but I am. I dont know what to do now. I dont want to call and beg that will onlky put me back to yesterday and that got me no where. What do I do

jtr,<P>Settle down and read the posts from some of our resident "been there, done that" specialists. Please take thier advice, I would not be where I am today if I hadn't had thier support.<P>Don't push him out of your house as of yet. It is much more difficult to get him to come back. Do be kind and patient. Let him know you care in a less needy way. Show him your strengths and be strong for yourself and your boys ( don't you just love those guys?). I have three sons also and a daughter. <P>Like Lori said, stop focusing on the us issues, instead focus on your issues and what you can do right this minute to feel better about yourself. You own your feelings and he owns his. Let him be responsible for his feelings and actions, you can't change them no matter what you do.<P>If and when he comes home today, be different! Don't hit him with the usual pity, and despair he is so accustomed too. I found out all too late that they hate to come home to this... who wouldn't?<P>I thought about what the conditions were like for my H when he would come home from work and realized I wouldn't want to come home either, if there were somewhere or someone else available to be with, I would choose the alternative also.<P>Pick yourself up, keep your chin up and do better, you can do this! If you want a better marriage, now is your chance to start!!! Take a break, don't mention any divorce or leaving or whys or hows. Just let it be for now until the dust settles. Read all you can regarding HN/HN. It will help you, I promise.<P>Good luck and have a nice day!!!<BR>Cathy

Hi Jtr -<P>You asked what to do.....<P>It depends on what you want!!!<P>If you want to push him away just to stop the pain, hurt and frustration YOU have..... then keep telling him how horrible he is and has made you feel.<P>If you want to get through this awful nightmare with a shot at a great marriage, a closer bond with your husband and feeling that you have grown stronger yourself....then you have to change your approach like Lostva said.<P>Which do you want? Tell us and then we will guide you.........<P>Ten months is a long time to be uncertain about your mate, marriage, life and yourself.....yes, I am sure that you ARE tired!!!<P>But you can only control your end of things.....telling him what he should be doing (or not doing) is not taking on the responsibility for what YOU can control.<P>Have you read the Harley material? Have you understood it and figured out how you can implement it? If so, then where did that letter come from? That is not advised here......<P>You want to show him HOPE, LOVE and that you are there to help him through his confusion........<P>Did you do that?<P>Do you want to?<P>If you REALLY want to make a difference in what is going on between the two of you.....start by figuring out EXACTLY what you DO WANT and not just dwelling on what you don't!!!!<P>If you keeep reacting to him while he is mentally off track.....YOU are adding to both of you being off track!!!! Someone has to get the train back on track!!!<P>So, for right now...to help you today - write down here what you want for you, your H and your marriage. WE ALL know the pain, the frustrations, etc...Yes, you must get those out by venting - but that is what you do here, not with H.<P>Take some deep breaths and decide what you want.......and if you are going to start to open up to different ways to get there... <P>We are here to help you.....<P>BIG HUGS because you can surely use them like all of us can,<P>Sheba

Hi Jtr -<P>Where are ya? I raced home from work, rolled up my sleeves and jumped on here expecting to get to work with you!!!<P>You didn't write anything...how come? <P>Just busy I hope.......<P>More BIG HUGS....you can get through this - I promise!!!!<P>Sheba

Hi JTR:<P>Honey, please listen to all these people. We've been there and we know what you're going through...but we're offering you a way out of the darkness if you'll just take it.<BR>You've been lost in this mess for 10 months but there is still hope.<P>Lots of people come here just like you...hurting so badly they won't let anyone help them. You're still pushing your H for a resolution...a decision...separation, OW, divorce, what's it going to be...don't you see he's not ready for a decision...and if you keep pushing then he may "have" to decide and given the bad state of your relationship I doubt if he'll decide to stay.<P>So, calm down, take the hands you're being offered and let us help you. You're getting the best in experience in your posts...people who've been though all of this and emerged stronger and wiser for the journey.<P>Buffy <P>

Hi JTR:<P>How're you doing today. Please reply to us so that we can help you.<P>I'll taken you back to the top for a while.<P>Buffy & Faye

He did come home Friday. Didn't say a word. He's so lost and theres nothing I do that helps. Tried to talk to him Saturaday nowhere told me to call my lawyer and get it over. Said we have no fun together never did, never where happy. I told him I loved him always will we did have fun but the strain we have now is not letting us. I asked him if he still loves me he said yes but not enough. His drinking seems to be picking up. I don't really know where he stands with Patty the OW. Monday I guess I'll call the lawyer. I hope its the right move. I love him and want him but I really don't think I can handle much more of the mental crap he keeps throwing at me. I cut my heart out if I thought it would help but I think its gone to far. Maybe divorce is my only answer. I know its not healthy the way it is now not for my boys him or me. My youngest reading on this is he's not sorry hasn't done anything to change and does not care about what I've done. Why does he have to be so cruel to me. I've cried, begged pretented like everything was good let him call the shots talk about it dont talk fool around don't. Lost weight changed my way of dress. My pride is gone I dont know who I am anymore. I know I dont want to her about her anymore. Maybe going forward on divorce will help him. Maybe not being his doormat mat will wake him up. Maybe he'll want to start over after a while.

well theres been no contsact between myself and H since Saturaday. I slept on coach last night. Went to my Moms when I came back he was gone. Didn't say anything to the boys just left. Don't know if he's returning tonight or not he took his business bag but left work shoes. God I"m afraid. I dont want to fight maybe I?M just driving myself crazy. I know he'll be drinking.

OK Jtr -<P>I want you to listen to me for a minute........<P>You have been trying to rationally talk out what is happening with an irrational man!!!! He is very confused and is in no position to behave or comprehend normally - neither in actions nor speech!!!!<P>When people are confused enough with themselves, they CANNOT see beyond their own confusion....do you understand this!<P>That is why we are telling you to stop trying to get through to him and let us show you how you can make yourself feel better....more hopeful and in control of the situation. THEN you can show him through your own behaviors......<P>You did not answer anything that has been asked of you.....why?<P>We don't want to see you just throw this away when we know that there are things that you can do to stop this snowball from rolling downhill.....<P>You speak of your kids, well - think of them and let us help you.......<P>Why are you sleeping on the couch? What good will it do to pull yourself farther away from him when you supposedly really want to get closer? Does that make sense? The things that we do, have a very big effect on how our spouses may think.....<P>You are sending mixed messages.....I want you but I can't stand to be near you. Plus you are punishing him for his bad choices like you would punish a child!!!!! Will this make him feel that there is hope for those "in love" feelings to come back......<P>I don't think so........<P>Please talk with us.....each step you are taking in the current direction you have chosen is HURTING your husband and your marriage.<P>Think about it......<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Sheba (edited September 24, 2000).]

Today there is a rainbow of hope. When H came down this morning he asked why I sleep down here. I told him he said he didn't want me anymore. He said I do. Our relationship is a mess and he doesn't know how to fix it. I said we needed to talk to someone that can help. NO I'm not going. I asked if he wanted to end this and start over. He doesn't want to waste money he's worked hard for.He asked what I wanted and if I'd be better off without him. I told him I love him always have always will that I don't want to live a life without him alone but that he's missable here. H said he's not seen the OW and as far as the beeper he wasn't hiding it. No I don't want a divorce I truly love this messed up guy have for the past 26yrs and know I always will but how do I help him when he won't do anything to help himeself.

Dear JTR: <P>I'm so sorry that you are going through this. <P>Please don't be too hard on yourself. Don't beat yourself up by believing that if you had done this/or hadn't done this, this might not have happened. Always remember that your H didn't cheat because of who YOU ARE, but because of who HE IS. You are NOT responsible for his infidelity.<P>Moreover, be good to yourself. Look after YOU. Sometimes, when things get too tough and too confusing, the best thing to do can simply be to just BREATHE and get through the day. Just be there. Even if the only thing you say to H is something like, "I'm whipped and would like to rest, but if you need me I'll be here."<P>Don't feel you have to PLAN A at the expense of losing yourself. Instead of being his *everything*, you may just want to start by avoiding what H would consider to be lovebusters. If this is the ONLY thing that you're able to do emotionally at this point in your life, then feel good about THIS one thing.<P>It's hard to be everything, do/say the right thing, smile, or even just get up in the morning when you're dealing with this mess. Sometimes it's okay to just pull the covers over your head and REST. <P>I just wanted to let you know that I'm listening and I HEAR YOU.<P>Here's hoping that you find peace. Best of Luck, ~Marie

Morning Jtr -<P>I am glad that you two spoke...it doesn't always have to be "a walking on eggshells" kind of thing. The biggest thing to remember is to communicate with love, understanding and honesty. You can't educate him, while he is confused - but you can show him the way YOU want to be and how you want the marriage to be.<P>How you help him is to bring yourself out of this place where it feels like you have a big rock on your back...to begin lifting yourself out from under the weight of "what more to do?: what more to say? - Oh God, I am losing him!"<BR>That "place" is keeping you from being the woman that you truly are, the woman that he married!!!<P>There is hope - if you learn the tools to help your marriage and allow yourself to understand what is happening, how common it is that people can get as confused as your H is, how by changing certain "rutlike" behaviors and circumstances you can change the atmosphere in the marriage to a better one.<P>Your H is not doing any of this to hurt you....you know that, right? He is doing it because of exactly what he has said....he "doesn't know how to fix it".<P>He can't even really define too much of what "it" is....right?<P>Counseling is not the only answer...it's could be of great help, but if he refuses, that doesn't mean that he won't "learn" anything in a different manner.<BR>He's refusing because he is afraid. There is a lot of stigma attached to not being able to fix things....especially to men.<P>You can help lead him to learning...and you will become stronger and more self-assured along the way......<P>It doesn't depend of what he says, does or won't say or do!!!!<P>You define what you want....and you behave toward that goal.<P>You need to get some positive energy going for yourself....everyone is attracted to someone who is "up" right?<BR>He wouldn't be able to resist you!!!<P>It's a matter of figuring out what this infidelity process is all about, because when you understand it - you can accept that it is not so much that he doesn't want you or the marriage. It is more about his simply not feeling "special and as loved as he used to.<P>You can make him feel that way again, can't you? Sure you can!!! <P>BUT, you have to feel that way about yourself first.....believe that you are the best wife for your H and you will be!!!! Believe that H is the best husband and the only one for you and he will believe it too!!!!<P>He said that he won't go to counseling,<BR>how about if counseling came to him?<P>Have you thought of calling one of the Harleys? Counsel over the phone - it may be a great introduction for H, being that he can't bring himself to "go"..<P>I think it would help you also....<P>There are things that you can be doing to impact this situation for the better. <P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>