Well, im hoping someone will read this and be able to share their similar experience with me or just give me a little advice. <P>9 years ago when i was 21, i met my husband. We dated had fun, we were the envy of all of our friends, (relationship wise) Anyway, in the beginning, i played hard to get. i don't know why, just did it. We fell in love got married 2 years later and had a son. As my love for ( lets call him f)f flourished, i tried everything to make hime happy. I was happy to sacrifice. When things didn't work out, i felt so frustrated that i would become psycho, yell, curse, break things. I think i did this because i felt i was giving 110% and when i made f unhappy i felt so frusterated that i could give no more or do better. Here's the good part. As we became emotionally detached from one another, i dove into work. I landed a great job through a former boss who i had worked for making more money than i ever dreamed possible 3 years out of college. The only thing was that it was in another State. We moved anyway. I dove into work again, and f stayed home with our 2 boys( Then 2 and 3). All the while our marriage was falling apart but we didn't know it. that's the strange thing. we never fought anymore, we were always pleasant, we seemed happy on the surface. Then i had an affair with my boss. Af first it was just to feel loved. It was a great feeling to have someone show me that they loved me. I was happy yet unhappy at the same time. I knew what i was doing was wrong but i couldn't stop. Then, my husband found out. I promised to stop, but i didn't. Now that i knew what it felt like to be cared for and pampered i didnn't want to let go of my new lover. But i didn't want to let go of my husband either. this went on for 7 whole months. Eventually i had to choose. I chose my husband for our boys, and because i felt that we could solve our problems if we just worked on them, most importantly i did it because i remembered how i loved F soo much. Our main problem was not fulfilling one anothers needs. So we discussed how we got to where we were in our relationship, identified the problems and talked about how we could make the other happy by meeting their needs. All was well up untill 2 weeks ago. I finally gave my heart to F, like i had in the past. But something was strange. I was emailing him, initiating conversation(something i hadn't done in the past) and it seemed that my husband was pulling away. this was strange because, previously he said he wanted to work on our relationship so very much. I confronted him about it today, and it seems that their is too much water under the bridge. I cried, cursed, yelled and more. I told him i was suicidal, or atleast the thought did cross my mind. He din't budge. He said the only way he could love me again, is if we move back to our homestate. but until then, he could not show me he loved me and he didn't want to show me as long as we were in the same state as my ex lover. I begged, pleaded told him i was a piece of #%$@$#@@#$#. told him i was sorry and to give us another try. But it seems in 2 weeks he has made a 180. From begging me to come back into our relatinship, to telling me there was too much water under the bridge to patch things up, UNLESS we moved back to our home state. I don't know if this sounds resonable. I want to go back with him,but find it odd that he will only show his affection for me after we arrive back in our home state. I feel that he might drop me like a hot potato once we get there and he's surrounded by his family. He assures me he won't. I asked him to atleast meet a little of muy needs in the meantime, but he won't do it until we go back. <BR>I feel so frustrated and confused. I feel unloved again, and suicidal like i had been before. I feel it's his fault i had the affair, but i know this is wrong to feel this way. I feel guilty and dirty. I don't know if we can work things out. I just know one thing. When he treated me badly(emotionally) in the beginning, i was clinging to him for dear life. then when i had my affair, he was clinging to me for dear life. And now that i'm back in the reltionship emotionally i am clinging to him again but he is not clinging to me anymore.<BR>I know i was wrong to have an affair,i realize how terrible i made F feel about himself. <BR>I guess im just wondering if i should take the ultimatum. I want so much for my husband to love me again, but it seems unless i meet his request( go without his love and affectin until we get back to our homestate)i will not find out if he's telling the truth. Has anyone ever experienced the same thing? Do I deserve this? Wanting to feel loved and not feeling loved can drive one crazy. I am there. My resources to resolve our issues have been exhausted and now i wonder if its time to give up. What do you think?

How about offering a compromise: Tell him you are willing to move, but would prefer to move to a completely new state altogether - somewhere that neither of you has contacts or family - somewhere that your ex-lover does not live. It is not unreasonable for your husband to not want to live in the same place the two of you lived during your affair.<P>What do you have to lose? If he refuses to compromise, you should consider this: You WILL lose him if you don't move home - and you MIGHT lose him if you do.<P>Don't forget that YOU are the one who betrayed your marriage vows. It is NOT an easy or quick thing to recover from.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

thanks for the advice. Unfortunately i have already offered to move to another state. It has to be our home state California. And it's nothing for me in the meantime. <P> I want to stress a point also. there are many types of marriage vows that can be broken. the most prominent one referred to is the affair. There are vows to love and protect, cherish, etc. when those vows are broken they can leave emotional damage. This is what happened to me. I felt neglected and unloved and ugly. My husband didn't want to be near me. He was a heavy drinker and would say the nastiest things about me. He would stay out late, sleep in the day, the list goes on. These things drove me to take a bottle of sleeping pills. Luckily he stopped drinking. The nasty comments stopped but the marriage was flat. It had no ups nor downs, no highs no lows. we were just two people living together. Except for the occasional tantrum i would throw begging for a hug or a kiss here and there, there were no arguments. I was the trouble maker by complaining and expressing my wants and needs. So i digressed.<P>I have to say though. The one good thing that my ex lover taught me was that I am a person who is loveable. I didn't know this before. I don't feel disgusted and unwanted. It has raised the bar on what i expect my happiness level in my marriage to be. So yes i broke my marriage vows, but lets not forget about the other vows that can be just as hurtful.

aandre,<P>I agree that it is not unreasonable for your husband to move out of state. On the other hand, I do disagree with his tactic of withholding love and emotional support until you do so. This is not healthy and can only serve to drain your love bank. Has he read his needs/her needs? Also, you screaming and yelling is a major LB. That won't get you anypoints in his love bank. There is a Lovebusters book and workbook that goes with the Harley books. This may help. <P>cleo

aandre,<P>Very sorry to read about your situation. I hope that you have taken the opportunity to read much of the very valuable information on this site. If not please look at NSR's post in the "Just Found Out" section of this site. The bookmarks in his post will take you to many good articles and interesting postings from this site.<P>Reading your post here I was struck with several things, but let me mention the most significant first. It appears you don't know why your H is so firm on this idea of moving back to CA. If you don't understand his feelings and logic in this you have little hope of understanding what to do.<P>Several other things struck me as I read you post, some of which you may not like to hear, but I think you should consider them.<P>1. The move to the new state was basically your choice for your career, he agreed to go, but it sounds as if there was some resentment.<P>2. You then threw yourself into your job, ignoring to some extent the family and H.<P>3. You had an affair with your boss and no doubt pulled further away.<P>4. You are still working at your original place of employment and persumably with the exOM still somewhere around.<P>If this is close to true, do you see why your H may want to leave where you are? Do you see why he might associate everything bad that has happened to him with this move and your current job? <P>His demand and not showing affection now are no doubt somewhat a bit of punishment for what has happened, but my guess is he has been far more damaged by all of these events than you realize. I doubt that he has many friends if he is Mr. Mom and therefore,he wants to return to a place where at least he feels he has some support. In your current location my bet is that he has no one to talk to or confide in. You had the OM and you have your work.<P>aandre, finally I detect that you still angry at him and you have not completely accepted your role in this whole mess. I doubt that your H is an angel, but he did for you what most men wouldn't. He has major doubts about your support, he has little or no trust in your word and promises, and he has children to take care of. If you do this again, he will have to work and raise the children and he wants to be near relatives for their support in case you do.<P>Does any of this sound familiar? If you read here you will see many women in the same situation your H is in. They want and do the same thing.<P>So my message to you is understand why your H has taken this stand. Learn from it and then see if you two can come up with a solution that works. <P>He is very correct to worry if you are still in the same job with your boss around. You will hear many times and it is a tenat of Harleys belief that the WS must not have contact with the OP ever again if at all possible. Are you still in contact? It sounds as if you might be. <P>Even in this post you have spent more time telling us what a good guy the boss is and have little positive to say about your H. Do you suppose he is picking up that message?<P>Please think about this and keep posting. There are many people here who will do their best to help you through this and help you restore your marriage.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: Don't you find it ironic that it is you that don't trust your H? It is very ironic, but it is not uncommon. I suspect that your H doesn't trust your love right now and feels that he must either force you to leave your job and move or he must leave. This isn't the best way for him to handle it, but you need to realize he is trying to protect himself from even more damage. You really don't understand how badly you have hurt him.<P>Please read some of the posts of people here that have been betrayed and you will ultimatly understand.<P>Hang in there aandre, this all can be worked out.<p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited September 22, 2000).]

thank you all for replying to my post. I agree with cleopatra and just learning. that moving back to california is a good idea, or just getting away from here. I guess i forgot to mention in my post that when i decided to give my marriage a second try, I quit my job? My husband works now and i stay at home. He's been working for 1 month now. I stay in constant contact with him. I.e. he can reach me by e-mail, by phone. and i always reply back within minutes. if i leave to the store i tell him and email him as soon as i get back. just so he knows how long i have been gone. He has the passwords to all of my e-mail and has access to all of my personal contacts etc. I openly invite him to check on me at any time. So i've been trying to build the trust back. <P>Second point that just learning made was that my husband came to our new state and is mr mom, has no friends. Unfortunately for me he does have family here and friends. That was a big factor in our decision. Also my husband selected not to work even though we could not afford it. I would beg him to go to work and he would keep a job for 1 week or so and say he hated it and quit. I did a lot of borrowing from my family these last few years. I'm talking over 50K, just so he could be happy. Taking my new job in my new state was the answer to paying my family off my family and letting my husband stay home as it seemed this is what he really wanted to do. I've been supporting him and paying for his child support for 2 other children for over 7 years now from a previous marriage. The funny thing is, is that i like to give and do things for him. But every once in a while i feel unappreciated. This just makes me feel terribly insecure, as though my efforts are not good enoughg for him. I feel insecure and ugly around him for the most part. But then their are times when he is so understanding and giving and caring. But the minute that he wants something and doesn't get his way he walks away and tells me " fine forget about it" then i go running to him and give him what he wants. This has been going on for almost 9 years. <BR>I wish i hadn't had the affair, but i do wish instead that i had left him. Now i feel i can't leave him for vaious reasons being love, children second chances etc. But, i'm afraid i will snap again if the lovelessness continues. If it wern't for my children i feel i might try to commit suicide again. <BR>At this point in my life. I want to do it right or i don't want to do it at all. But it's hard to make my marriage work and get my husband to fulfil my top 5 basic needs when he says that my needs will change him as a person and that he doesn't want to change. So i'm at a loss. I lose with my husband because i had an affair. And i lose my basic human wants because my husband won't fulfil them. <BR>We have bought many books and have read them all. love buster etc. We agree with the concepts. it's just that we can't put them into action. I want and my husband wants to put into action the things we have learned. I.E. meeting one anothers needs. For instance, my husband said that sex was the number one priority on his need list. we discussed how i could meet his need in this area. When i explained that i would like him to express his love and affection once a week or so, that this would alter his basic personality. He feels that this is a bad thing and that i should not try to change him. That i need to accept the way that he chooses to love me. <BR>I don't know how to show him or convince him that these are not ways in which i try to change him, but just my own personal wants. <BR>In his mind, he feels that his efforts over the years have been adequate. Nothing i say or tell him can convince him otherwise. I will give our marriage a second try and go back to the giving person that i once was, but how long can i give withour recieving a basic human want. love and adoration?<BR>

aandre,<P>Just got a quick minute, but I wanted to ask: Why is it unfortunate that he has family and friends where you are? <P>Another observation, now that we have more information, does your H realize that meeting needs does not require one to change who they are. It just requires them to look at things with a different perspective. If he loves you, then saying "I love you", doesn't change anything, but it will help you to be reassured.<P>Reassuring someone of something you know to be true, does not cause the person doing the reassuring to change. But it surely can change the other persons life. So maybe you should explain to him you are willing to change, but you need reassurance about certain things. (The fact that this reassurance meets your needs, we'll keep a secret between you and I ).<P>Think about this and ask more questions. You will get a lot of advice.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Oh, it's unfortunate that my husband has friends and family here because in california my husband would often go out with friends and leave me home to take care of our children.( this happened quite often) He wouldn't go place where we could take the children so i would be stuck at home. As far as his family goes, his family is of irish descent. I don't know if this matters or not but just wanted to mention it. His parents didn't attend our wedding because they don't approve of our marriage. They make it very clear to me that i need to be subserviant to my husband. He's the only son of five children. Also the fact that i'm half asian might have something to do with their dissaproval and rude treatment towards me.( I'm half french and half Thai). I think this because, his father called and left a message on our answering machine calling our boys two chinks. I can't remember why he did it. But he couldn't even get the stero types right. Well anyways, hope that answers your question on that matter.<P>for your second comment, yes i've tried everything. I've told him that even a word or two out of the blue would bring soo much joy to my life. I've tried to lead by example. He always says i love you back or hugs me back. But never is he the one to initiate first. As i said before, he says it's just not like him to be the " romantic type" as he puts it. <P>Thanks for talining to me. I feel much better just typing these things down and feel i can try to give more to my husband until he comes around.

aandre -- In reading your thread, I had many of the same thoughts that others have expressed to you. I did however want to give you a perspective that is probably very similar to your H.<P>I am the betrayed husband in my marriage, so maybe my perspective will help a little.<P>First, I have a question that I don't think has been asked of you yet. Or at least if you did answer this, I missed it. . . How long ago did your affair end? How long ago did your H find out about it? Time can be a major factor in being able to heal from infidelity.<P>OK, similarly to you, my W has a better education than I do. She currently holds a BA in business which she completed right after we were married. I do have some college and hold an AA in Computers. I also happen to be 9 years older than my W, but I don't thin that means anything.<P>You mentioned that your H wants to be a stay at home dad . . . I would love to be able to play "mister mom", but my W has been unable to find a "real" job in the area we live in. This isn't because she isn't qualified, she just can't get past submitting the application/resume.<P>From my perspective, you are asking a lot of your H right now. If he reacted any where close to the way I did when he found out about your affiar, then he was totally devastated. EVERYTHING that I thought and believed was challenged to the core as a result of my W's affairs. My manhood, my religous beliefs, my moral beliefs, everything.<P>We are close to 2 years since discovery, and there are still times when I am deeply hurt by what has happened. It was very very hard for me to get to the point of forgiving my W for what she did to our marriage, and what she put our daughter through. Our situation was a lot more convoluted than yours and as a result had direct impacts on our D.<P>To get back to my point, hopefully, you are asking your H to give you everything that you want. You also say that you have made attempts to go back to the way you were when you were first married. While these things may not sound unreasonable to you, to your H they probably are.<P>You are also at a disadvantage with your H not being a very "romantic" person. I too am not what most people would consider "romantic" I have always had a very hard expressing my feelings and emotinons. Not only to my W, but to everyone I have ever been close to. It is a constant battle for me. It is probably the same way for your H.<P>As for his demands about moving. . .Let me start by saying that I agree with the others who have said that it is unfair for him to withhold "everything" until after you move. However, I can understand his wanting to move. Maybe he feels that in order to allow his feelings to return to "normal" then he has to be in familiar surrondings. I don't know if this is "right" or not, but I can understand it.<P>Something that you may want to keep in mind, It was you who betrayed the marriage. It should be you who does the majority of "work" to repair the marriage. There are many on this forum who would disagree with me on this. In my situation I did everything in my power to rebuild my marriage on my own. Even after discovery took place, it was me who did all the giving and bending. My W wanted the affair to stay in the past, she wanted to pick up and start everything fresh, with the past dead and buried. We are still battling problems as a result.<P>With that said, do I thin you should have to do "all" the work? <B>NO ! ! ! ! </B> it took both of you to allow your marriage to deteriorate to the point where you felt justified in having an affair. It will take both of you to get beyond it.<P>I sure hope that made sense to you. I hope I didn't come on too strong. The very fact that you are here on this forum speas volumes to your commitment to rebuilding your marriage, and I commend you.<P>God Bless

Hello empty shell, <BR>thanks for your wise words. My affair ended about two months ago. Originally i had planned on leaving both my H and the person whom i had the affair with. I understand the frustration you feel and i see your point that my H was devastated and as a result may act like a person that i don't know. However, i strongly believe this and i know those who have been betrayed don't won't agree with me. But I really believe that i was betrayed in my marriage. I was promised to be cherished, loved, addored etc.I don't say that this is an excuse for my affair. Only one reason. Other reasons are becuase i was week, depressed. yada yada. Sometimes when one is so mentally distress they do things that are out of character. Just as my husband is doing now. Just as I had an affair. I think if I had been stronger to his emotional abuse and lack of being able to show me he loved me that i would not have taken a bottle of sleeping pills. But I did. And when i had the affair that is how i justified my affair in my own head at the time. It would probably have been better if i left my husband before or during my depression. If i had i would probably be with someone else now. But i chose not to leave him and now i am in a loveless relationship with someone who does not want to acknowledge the fact that it takes two to make a marriage work. He still thinks he did a fine job of meeting my needs. I only complained and begged for attentin because i was a nag and high maintnance( according to him)<BR> From all i know and have read. Once the basic fundamentals of the needs are not met, that is when people begin to be unhappy. so I tell you that, I have been unhappy 90% of the time. And I tell you also that i have tried to express my needs to my husband. But even before my affair, he refused my pleas. He laughed when i told him i was going to try to kill myself. Just as he laughed when i told him last night. I think that if i can forgive him for the emotional distress that led me down the path to a bottle of sleeping pills, then he should also do the same for me. Provided i make every effort to gain his trust back. One last thing. How he treats me now (after the affair) is pretty close to how he used to treat me before the affair. So i am a little better equipped. <BR>

aandre,<P>I dont see that anybody has addressed this issue here but NO MORE SUICIDAL THREATS OR GESTURES! You may end up really harming yourself permanently and you have 2 children. I suggest that if you are seriously entertaining these thoughts that you see a doctor immediately!!! If you are using these as attention getters and nothing else, let me just say that it serves no purpose to hurt your H. Is that what you are trying to do or are you trying to rebuild? Two months since d day is very fresh. It will take time. You should be in serious Plan A mode. No more Love busters. Give him time. When he feels safe with you, he will be mroe willing to meet your needs. As a BS, I can tell you that I felt like my H should have really done some hard work toward repairing the marriage. Give it a few more months before you chalk it up to the "same old thing". It takes time to get over the severe pain of it all.<P>cleo

aandre -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i strongly believe this and i know those who have been betrayed don't won't agree with me. But I really believe that i was betrayed in my marriage. I was promised to be cherished, loved, addored etc.I don't say that this is an excuse for my affair. Only one reason. Other reasons are becuase i was week, depressed. yada yada. Sometimes when one is so mentally distress they do things that are out of character.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're probably right that a lot of people will not agree with you in this respect. Partially because of how betrayal is defined. More accurately, I think what you are describing is the berak down of a marriage, more than a betrayal of a marriage.<P>Every situation is different, but I think most of the members of this forum would describe this as the breakdown, not so much of a betrayal.<P>I do have one question on this for you though, and I don't ask this to be mean or accusatory. Whose betrayal was worse? Yours or your H's?<P>All of us. Betrayered and betrayer alike tend to act "out of character" when dealing with infidelity. In my own situation, my character has definitely changed as a result of my W's infidelity. I honestly don't know if my personality changes are for the better or for the worse, but there are changes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He still thinks he did a fine job of meeting my needs. I only complained and begged for attentin because i was a nag and high maintnance( according to him)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This too is pretty normal for many of the betrayed. It took an awful lot of soul searching and self examination to realize my contributions to my W's infidelity. I don't like to admit this type of flaw, but eventually I did. Some betrayed spouses never really admit that they have a responsibilty in thier being betrayed. It's a hard thing to face.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think that if i can forgive him for the emotional distress that led me down the path to a bottle of sleeping pills, then he should also do the same for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>As I am sure you are aware, men and women deal with these types of things differently. forgiveness can be a very painful descision. And it is a descision, not something that happens with time. I wish I could give a means by which your H could forgvie you, but only he can do that.<P>By the way, have you suggested that he come to this forum ?? There have been, and hopefully will continue to be many couples who have posted here together. My W posts here occasionally. The worst he can do is say no, but he will find others here who have been where he is. Just an idea.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How he treats me now (after the affair) is pretty close to how he used to treat me before the affair.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I hope that this is a good sign for you. either way, you still have a lot of work ahead of you. You said you ended your affair 2 months ago . . . My W's affair ended over 2 years ago, and we are still struggling with the whole situation.<P>Hang in there. Keep posting, and try to get your H to come here.<P>God Bless

Aandre,<P>Our stories have some striking similarities. I'm like you in the respect that I there have been times in my marriage when I too felt like I was giving and giving but not getting much in return. I eventually get to the point where I explode about EVERYTHING. My H jokingly calls me "Katie Kaboom" after a cartoon character on Anamaniacs, and we laugh, but it's really not funny when it happens and neither of us walks away feeling like anything got solved. So I totally understand the empty, frustrating feeling of that process. <P>First off, I commend you on your current efforts to gain trust back with your H. You are doing all the right things, which can be hard if you are a private person by nature. My H has all of my passwords, knows about all of my email accounts, and I report to him about my whereabouts as well - not because he asks me to but because I feel it's my repsonsibility to do so. <P>At the time that I had my PAs, my H was holding down a job that he didn't necessarily love but was earning excellent wages. If we'd been able to stick around, he'd have finally been the manager. He was attending school and was at last beginning to build up some meaningful friendships, something that doesn't come easily to him (he's kind of a contented loner). We lived in a HUGE, brand new, upscale apartment in beautiful Salt Lake City. My affairs made it necessary for us to leave. There was too much pain to stay.<P>I know the move was far more tolerable for me - it was my hometown that we were going to and I missed it and the people there. But as we drove the 1800 some miles, and I had ample time to think, I stopped feeling so happy and excited about the move. It began to dawn on me how hard this had all been on my H. <P>When we got here (Pittsburgh) we had to live in a two bedroom apt with my mom, her H and my two teenage brothers for three weeks til we could find a place of our own. Our wounds were so fresh we were still bleeding. I thought I might be pregnant (wouldn't have known who the father was ) H ended up taking a job doing something he despises and is way below his intellectual capacities. Not to mention about a 40% paycut. I too took a paycut and hate my job. <P>Now half of our stuff is still in Utah. We have struggled since we got here, living from paycheck to paycheck. My damned car got repo'ed. H HATES it here - the weather, the general, biggoted attitude of many of the people here, my goofy family.<P>So, aandre, why suffer thru all the trauma?<P>Because it was WORTH it for us to get away - no matter how many nice things we had there. It's WORTH not having to worry about H running into one of the OM and something disasterous happening. We had to get away. <P>I know, aandre, that your H has caused you his fair share of grief. But in light of your recent actions (affair), it's your turn once again. I worried my *ss off that my H would leave me anyway too. On occasion, I still do. But over a year later, he's still here and says he won't leave unless I screw up again. Looking at your situation, the ball is in your court. And from the looks of it, your H sounds as if he may be thinking of leaving if you guys stay where you are. This obviously means a great deal to him - so let him know that you are willing to do what it takes. Put on your game face and show him you are ready to play ball in your marriage since actions always speak louder than words.<P>Anyway, our story has a happy ending or at least is marching along a happy path. I did get pregnant, but not until we'd been here for months (yes H is the daddy) - we have a perfect little boy. H is finally back in school. I may have a better, higher paying job here soon - I'll know on Monday. So it's not all thorns, there are lots of roses - it just depends on which I choose to focus on.<P>Like Just Learning dsaid, keep on posting, let us know your thoughts. We are here for you!<P>Khyra<P>

hi, this is my last post for the night. Then, i'm back to work on my website.<P>Cleopatra,I really have suicidal thoughts, and i came very close night before last. When it came down to doing the deed(suicide) I thought of my children and it straigtened me right up. I just have to keep them in my thoughts and in my heart. Anyway, that is why i decided to join this forum. I need a release, I have no family except for a 23 year old brother and i have no friends here to talk to or stay with. I thought joining this forum would be the next best thing to having family and friends to talk to. <BR>As far as hard work goes, i really am trying very hard to get him back, but i fear i lack the know how. I wonder if i should just back off for a while. By the way, my husband is a member of this forum and he has posted quite often in the past. I don't think he has recently though.<P><BR>Empty shell,<BR>i have a question for you since you're situation with your wife sounds similar to mine. After two months, did you ever tell you wife that you wanted to leave your wife as a result of her affair? I ask this because my H wants to leave me now. I've tried everything to convince him that i want our marriage to work. I think the sight of me is not so appealing. I don't know. I just wish i knew how to convince him. It's so frustrating when it's the real deal and you want it to work, and your putting so much effort and still i can't convince him. <P>Do yo think i should just live with him for the moment until he cools down and see if he comes around. The reason i ask this is because i tried to talk to him tonight and he wasn't receptive to that so im thinking maybe that i should not be in his presence anymore. Maybe just retire to the bedroom when he comes home from work, or go to the bookstore until he's asleep.<BR>I wonder if this might be the best thing to do because he left me before, right after i had the affair, but he came back after a week saying he missed me and could forgive me. <BR>What is the best thing to do in order to hey my H back? Keep in mind that he is very hostile right now towards me and probably hates me. What would you want if you were feeling like my H?<P>Any words of wisdon would be great. <P>

Hi Khyra,<BR>I just saw that you had posted a reply. Must have missed it earlier. Thank you for telling me your story. It helps to hear from someone who has been in my shoes. It actually makes me want to try all the more harder to make my husband trust me again. <BR>I have decided that I will take a chance and move to california, even though i fear he is using me financially just to get back there. just finished applying to some jobs, and they are all in California. It will be an easy move for me too because i've lived there half my life. <BR>I guess i just need to take the jump and do it as you said, the ball is in my court. If i stay here, i'm sure to lose him. If i leave with him i may lose him, but i may get him back. I guess it's a chance i have to take. At this point i'll do anything. <BR>I know one thing i've learned from my affair. It's not worth it. You end up being the cause of your very own pain and you also inflict it upon your spouse. Not to mention my two boys now 3 and 4. <BR>IN your post you said<BR>------------------------------------------<BR>I stopped feeling so happy and excited about the move. It began to dawn on me how hard this had all been on my H. <BR>===========================================<P>Your words struck a nerve on me and suddenly the fog was lifted. I finally realised just how much pain my H is going through. I mean, i've alway known it. But I finally understand it now. I've been so overwhelmed by my hurt from the past that i've neglected to Empathize with his pain. I will have to help him overcome this and we'll just have to work on my pain someother time. <P>I just hope it's not too late. He left tonight and took my two boys. So it's lonely and i can't sleep. <P>Good night. <BR>

Reading your story made me cry. You are truly suffering and do not deserve the treatment you are receiving from your H, as well as the pain you are putting yourself through. It seems obvious that you had the A because you weren't getting your needs met. Not that this condones it, but at least you understand that part. Does your H understand? You sound like a very giving person, and you also clearly understand what you need to do to make this up to your H. Reassure him, be the best wife you can, no love busters etc. But there also comes a point where your H has to do his part too. Unfortunately, it seems that he is still too angry and hurt to move ahead. At two months past the end of your A, I think its pretty normal for him to still be resentful. It also seems like he is an emotionally detached person, not very happy with himself, or he wouldn't be so tough on you. <P>It does seem that he is capable of trying though, if he has read the books, come to the forum and is at least willing to discuss how your marriage could be improved. He just can't seem to put it in to action though. Again, it takes time, and this is still a very fresh wound to him. <P> Your H sounds like mine to an extent. He is the one who had the A. I have always felt "less loved" in our marriage, he can be kind, affectionate and loving, but also can be mean, say cruel things, and I have always felt like I am the giver and he is the taker. However, this man has very low self esteem due to some serious childhood problems, and I understand that. I learned that dispite all my giving, I was still not meeting alot of his emotional needs. He is a bottomless pit when it comes to having his ego fed, and I just wasn't doing it. So when he met someone who REALLY fed his ego, he couldn't resist. Anyway, the A is over, he seems happier, but not always. Unfortunately, I think he has a whole in his soul, a hurt that will always be with him,and no matter how hard I try, I can't fix this. Neither could having an affair, it seems to have made him all the more despondent about his life, how cruel the world can be, how painful life can be. <P>So I feel like I must make the best of this for all - we also have 2 small children who adore their father. Our marriage is by no means miserable, just not perfect, and I have come to accept this - I would never destroy our family and this is my top priorty. I guess I feel like I make the sacrifice of my own potential for happiness for my kids. Not unhappy, you understand, just not as happy as I think I could be if he didn't have these problems within himself. <P>So I guess what I'm saying is that if you are going to stay in the marriage, you need to realize that it may never be perfect, you may never get the "love and adoration" that you crave, but you can still make the best of it and get and give alot in it. <P>But first you need to get through this crisis due to the A, help your H get over it. You can only do so much though, and then you must accept that the rest is up to him, and not your fault. Forgive yourself for your mistake and move on. If your husband has to hear you apologize over and over, then do it, but don't let it bring you down, forgive yourself. 2 months is nothing yet, so be patient. We are 8 months past d-day and still hurting, but better. Have you tried counseling, either together or for yourself? It sounds like you definitely could benefit, especially with your occasional thoughts of suicide. <P>You sound like a very caring, loving, sensitive and intelligent person, who is doing the best she can in a less than perfect situation. Try to follow Harley's principles, let your husband know how much you love him and want this marriage to work, and how willing you are to do what you can to meet his needs. But first and foremost, take care of yourself and work on your confidence. Be the best person you can be, and realize that you can only do so much. <BR>Give yourself plenty of time - I believe with the tools you both have, you CAN heal and have a loving marriage. It just takes some time and your H needs that time too. I think the move is a good thing, a real gesture of appeasment on your part. Give it a chance - what do you have to lose at this point? But keep yourself healthy too, join a support group and make as many friends as you can. <P>Anyway, my sincere best wishes to you - you deserve some peace and happiness. Don't give up on yourself or your husband, and keep posting here when you feel down. Take good care. <p>[This message has been edited by Everhopeful (edited September 23, 2000).]

aandre -- I'm glad that I haven't scared you off. I am not very "flowery" or "politically correct" when I post here. I try to say things as honestly as I can, and for many I come off as rather harsh and threatening. I do not say things to be mean, so I am glad that you are still interested in talking with me.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>After two months, did you ever tell you wife that you wanted to leave your wife as a result of her affair? I ask this because my H wants to leave me now. I've tried everything to convince him that i want our marriage to work. I think the sight of me is not so appealing. I don't know. I just wish i knew how to convince him. It's so frustrating when it's the real deal and you want it to work, and your putting so much effort and still i can't convince him.[/qoute]You ask some very difficult questions. The key though is that you can not convince your H to do anything, no matter how hard you try. All you can do is show him.<P>To answer you first question, did I ever tell my W that I wanted to leave? No I didn't tell her that I wanted to leave. I did tell her that I didn't know if I could stay. Our situation was a little different than yours though. I found out that my W was having many internet (emotional) affairs. That in itself almost destroyed our marriage. Then a few months later I found out about her physical affair. The affair had been over for more than six months by that point. It was still very fresh to me.<P>My W's reaction was to immediately try to do anything that she thought I would want everything from telling me that she was sorry, to increasing sexual activity. I told her then that this was not going to make things better.<P>It took me a long time to reach the point where I knew myself, that I was not going to just walk away.<P>[quote]Do yo think i should just live with him for the moment until he cools down and see if he comes around.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Again, each situation is different, but if your H percieves that you are pushing him to make commitments to you, you may actually be pushing him away. As I said earlier, it is impossible for you to convince your H of you feelings and desire to change. All you can do is show him. Try your best to meet his needs, make ever attempt you can to not love bust, and realize that your needs may have to take a back seat for a while. I mentioned in an earlier reply to you that I believe that it is the betraying spouse who should do the majority of work, and this is just one example. It may not be right, but it is a fact of life when recovering from infidelity.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>im thinking maybe that i should not be in his presence anymore. Maybe just retire to the bedroom when he comes home from work, or go to the bookstore until he's asleep.<BR>I wonder if this might be the best thing to do because he left me before, right after i had the affair, but he came back after a week saying he missed me and could forgive me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The simple answer to this is <B>absolutely NOT</B> Running and hiding will not help either you or your H. Be there with him and for him. Let him know by your presence and attention that you care and that you understand his hurt.<P>Two months is still very new. It takes time for healing to take place, and you can not force the issue. His coming back after your affair is a good sign, but he is still dealing with an awful lot.<P>Now to address the issue I had not dealt with. . .You have got to seek out help concerning the suicidal thoughts and attempts. Look into antidepressants and get some counseling, even if you have to go by yourself for a while. Let me say it this way, Why would your H want to have anything to do with a person who threatens and attempts suicide? Please for the sake of your kids, for the sake of your H and for you sake, get some help.<P>God Bless