I am struck by something that I have noticed a great deal, especially lately, on this forum... the connection with alcohol/alcoholism and infidelity. There seem to be many of us who, if you take the time to really look into the details of the background story, have been disastrously affected by the alcohol issues of our spouses.<P>Another common theme seems to be that we tend to leave out that part of the story until pressed more and more for details. Then the all night drinking with the boys comes tumbling out. And then we let it slip that the OW/OM was a drinking buddy, too, and that she/he encouraged our spouses' regular and harmful alcohol consumption ... and finally, many times the story finally comes out that the WS has been a "party animal" or even an acknowledged alcoholic for a long time - and that the infidelity is almost an inevitable extension of the alcohol problem.<P>I believe I have mentioned that one of the issues that had come up in the last four years of our marriage is my husband's insistence on going out with his friends and drinking to excess 3-4 nights each week. While he always enjoyed going out and having a few, his ABUSE of alcohol was what really started my downward spiral into *****-hood. Yes, I was likely depressed for a very long time, but I wasn't really a horrible ***** until he completely shut me out of his "recreational life" and began drinking most of the time. And, I believe that the affair began about the same time that the alcohol abuse began. Which came first? Well, I think it is like the dog chasing his tail, or the chicken and the egg thing - he was drunk when the affair started, and the slug encouraged him to party, because that is what she enjoyed, and the guilt also kept him going ... who knows and who cares?<P>Many times when the abuse of alcohol stops, the WS comes to his or her senses and returns to the spouse. Mine, however, seems not to be going in that direction. He has stopped "partying" with alcohol almost completely - and has become more like the person I first married. But he is still with slug and still insistent that our marriage cannot be restored or renewed (Why do I have to have the "odd" one?).<P>Any thoughts, comments, suggestions, rebuttals? Anything? Yep, it's a lonely weekend once again... no money, and no energy, and all my friends are busy with their lives. I am too tired right now to get a life, and much too poor! <P>Back later ...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

My H doesn't have that excuse - he didn't drink before the affair, and as far as I know still doesn't. <P>

My H has always drank, but not to excess all the time. But is did have to do with his insecurities and his inability to take on real life. He hides from big or painful issues.(like his A)<P>He drank to drunk every night of the week during the A because he didn't want to deal with me, or his life, or his guilt of his secret. After I found out it doubled. Now with the advice of our therapist, he is trying to control himself so he can think of what he must in this situation. Being numb gets us no where.<P>I know nothing about the ow. Though I know she feeds his ego too. "Worships" him--that is hard to dompete with.

This definitely strikes a chord with me. From age 15 on, my H's main goal in life was drinking and women. When I met him his last year in college, this was still his main pursuit in life, but I figured he'd grow out of it. Now he's 33, and when the A started and continued, it was always "out drinking with the boys" when actually, he was out drinking with her. During the first 7-8 years of our marriage, the drinking out with friends was few and far between, but every couple of months or so, he's go to a party, or out after work, and these always turned into late evenings. He's always felt like he was "missing out", that if he couldn't<BR>"party" once in a while, he didn't "have a life". Now, I like to go out too once in a while, and have a few. But H doesn't consider partying with me to count, evidently. <P>Anyway, the alcohol played a huge factor in the A. And when the A was over, and we tried to get our marriage back together, I made the mistake of thinking, "OK, he wanted a drinking buddy, I'll be his drinking buddy like she was." So we got a babysitter every weekend, and started going downtown, hitting the bars. It was fun in a way, at least we were now each others "favorite recreational drinking partners", but the alcohol was terrible for causing me to "love bust" - almost everytime I'd end up with some emotional outburst and cry cry cry. <P>After 8 months, we are more on an even keel. I no longer feel like I need to compete with the hard drinking OW, but I sometimes wonder about H. He doesn't go out except with me, but I don't know if he finally has gotten it out of his system (the desire to "party".) Alcohol and affairs DO go hand in hand many times, if only for the fact that the alcohol lowers your inhibitions, makes it easier to rationalize your behavior and forget whos waiting at home and how they are feeling. When I asked my H how he could deal with his guilt after calling me to say, "I'm going to be home late, out with the boys again, he said he'd just drink more to ignore his conscience.<P>So anyway, in my case, the alchohol factor was huge. I don't think the A would have occured if the OW didn't drink and like to party. Its all about escape.

Hi Terri:<P>My H is not really much of a drinker but there have been periods in his life when he has stayed drunk for extended period...both of those times were when he was trying to escape from his responsibilities.<P>When I met him he was living at college with a group of home-town boys and their live consisted of drinking and partying. It was his first real taste of freedom and he did not handle it well and eventually flunked out. We met and he went back to school seriously and entered up graduating from law school years later.<P>It's 25 years later and he's in bad health, losing his vitality, and tried of being "Mr. Responsible." He meets a bunch of rich party people and gets involved with them, likes the way women fawn over him and decides something is missing in his life.<BR>So along comes OW...she's a drunk just getting over recent divorce from another drunk. She apparently sees a "bird's nest on the ground" in my H and draws him in.<BR> <BR>He gets involved heavily in her world, drinking and drugs, has a minor stroke, and ends up leaving me for her. He comes back, leave again years later, so on and so on.<BR>But I'm certain the draw to her is the lifestyle and she is the conduit to that life style. Perhaps being on the run can dull you so that you can no longer need to worry about your other life...only the importance of what feels good and gets you through another day.<P>Buffy & Faye

My H used to "go out" maybe a few times a year with a couple of buddies. I never LIKED it, but it wasn't a huge deal. However, I didn't much care for his friends (who were partiers that went out all the time).<P>Then he dropped them after one came over to our house drunk one day and tried to french kiss me...sent him packing.<P>Then he started to go out with one of my best fiends (male co-worker...no NOTHING ever between us) and I was more at ease with that because he is a decent guy.<P>Right before the affair he turned 40 and had a new job offer fell through. For that brief time, he maybe went out once every 10 days or so instead of a few times a year.<P>Bam...he met a brazen hussy in a bar and she kissed him.<P>He maintains he was at the wrong place in the wrong condition. He doesn't think he ever would have had an affair, and especially not with the brazen hussy, if he had not been drinking in a bar.<P>He no longer goes out without me, by his own choosing.<P>Just the other night, the origional two friends (one of which had come on to me) called him at 2:30 AM drunk as skunks, to say "hi". <P>My H was miffed and really saw how stupid that type of behavior is, instead of be intrigued by it.<P>Guess he grew up!

Terri:<P>I, too, am one with an alcoholic spouse. My H drank heavily even before I met him. Since we met in our early 20's, I just thought it was "a phase". It just got progressively worse throughout our relationship and marriage.<P>I became withdrawn, and got to the point where I wanted something to happen just so I could get out of this relationship. The bomb dropped!<P>This past year (starting in November of '99), H was becoming more and more of a "drunk". Little did I know it was to shade his guilt of starting an A. <P>The one emotional need at that time that I did not meet of his, was the approval of his drinking and his extracurricular activities, i.e., golf, volleyball, and drinking. The "freak" did. <P>I received a letter in the mail stating the details of the A, confronted H, finally got a confession about 2 hours later, and he hasn't had a drop of alcohol since.<P>So, my situation, I guess is a bit different. H realized what needed to be done for the relationship to survive. He had no withdrawal symptoms, and he now just drinks the "no [censored]" (as he calls it), non-alcoholic beer.<P>We even renewed our vows this past weekend. It was a perfect ending to a horrid past couple of years, and a perfect beginning to the rest of our lives.<P>I've read a lot on here about spouses starting to drink heavily once an A began, I think that's almost normal. Unfortunately, my H was always a heavy drinker, so I didn't get the lightbulb to go off over my head.<P>Good luck with everything. Just wanted you to see a success story with the alcoholic background.<P>It took months of counseling and really working on each other to pull one another up to where we are today (dday was Jan. 21, 2000). So I think we've recovered a lot faster than a lot of people. I just thank God everyday that his affair was more alcohol related than "in love" related. Neither one of them were in love with the other. I think maybe the freak was because she was the one who sent the letter after my H tried to break off contact because she was getting psycho. But my H never had the withdrawal of the A to go through.<P>Sorry, got on a rambling thing there. Again, good luck with everything!<P>--purplemag

My H was never a big drinker (at least not since he was in college). 2 drinks at a party or something would be his limit. When he was with OW he started binge drinking. Actually passed out in his car one night I guess. The only places they ever went together were bars (ones where he wouldn't risk seeing anyone he knew). I would find half empty liquor bottles in his car when he would come over. I think he thought that drinking would help the depression (which at the time he still wouldn't admit to) but only made it worse. Once the OW was gone so was the drinking.

Hey guys,<P>In the past, I used the fact that I was intoxicated as a reason/excuse for inappropriate behavior of all sorts, including infidelity. But my H has pointed out some important elements to me. At first I didn't want to hear them, but as I ponder them they make more sense (darn him!) Here's the biggest one:<P>*What you do drunk you would also do sober, given the right circumstances.<P>Sure, drinking relaxes you, impairs your judgement, affects your co-ordination, and even gets those hormones racing. However, drinking is the lubrication in the machine, not the fuel - get it? It makes it a little easier to behave in a way you know is wrong or silly or whatever, but it does not MAKE you do anything. You are still in control of your actions. <P>Now if you are the type of person who DOES get 'out of control' (fights, flirting, excessive silliness, won't stop before you drink too much) then you really need to monitor your intake AND more so, the situation that you are in. I am that way. I tend to be more flirtatious, I get in fights, (hey, dynamite comes in small packages!) and I tend to go overboard. So, I have changed my behavior. I don't go out drinking at clubs or parties without my H anymore. Too volitile of a mix for me.<P>So, my point is ... drinking may kind of help infidelity along a little BUT, if things were that far along in a risky situation anyway, the alcohol can't be the thing to blame - its the PEOPLE for letting it all happen.<P>

I have to disagree somewhat about that, Khyra. Only because I've gone through my own "drinking" thing in the past. When I was drunk, I would do things that I would never do under ANY other circumstances.<P>Now, that is not to say that some of the things I did I wouldn't have THOUGHT about - but I NEVER would have acted on those thoughts EXCEPT under the influence of alcohol.<P>While I don't think that alcohol CAUSED my husband's affair, by any means, he used alcohol as some kind of crutch/tool/medicant during the first 3 years of his affair. Maybe it made it easier to face me, maybe it made it easier to screw her without putting a bag over her head, I don't know what his reasoning was. It doesn't matter. The only point I was trying to make was that alcohol is pretty prevalent in infidelity. What exactly the connection is should be a subject for study if it hasn't been already.<P>BTW, my husband used the excuse that "she was drunk" when the slug went for my throat (literally) the night I found out about the affair. It fascinates me that immediately thereafter he brought up a single incident from before we started dating (one night when I had been out drinking with friends and also had taken No-Doz - pure caffeine, pretty much, and a guy called me a very nasty name - I picked up a chair and threatened him with it - this is NOT my normal personality, but IS the slug's). He used that incident as an example of why he thought that he couldn't deal with my "anger" - can you imagine that? There is a PRIME example of the "fog" they are in...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hi Terri,<P>I have said pretty much the same things to my H and he has held firm. And I still have times when I struggle to agree with him as well.<P>What it comes down to in my book is this: Alcohol impairs your judgement, period. Otherwise, there would not be as many drunk driving, suicide and domestic violence incedences as I have seen come thru the ERs where I have worked. I thik you hit the nail on the head, Terri, when you said you had at least THOUGHT about it while sober. The booze just acted as the catalyst. <P>More what I'm trying to say here is that to me, people cannot use "I was drunk" as an easy out or way to not take responsibility for their actions. Drunk or no, it still happened. It wasn't an alien wearing a Carrie Suit that did the dumb stuff I've done, lol (wish it had been!) Just a very drunk and very stupid Carrie in the flesh. duh <P>Also, if soemone uses being plasterd as a reason once, how many times can they use it again to be excused for being mentally out to lunch, right? <P>Terri, stay away from No-Doze! PS I have some salt for the slug if you want some ....<BR> <P>Khyra