Schizzo,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I know "looks" is the main topic of this thread, but I'm having more trouble with him lumping all tasks into his endless "domestic support" need. Wouldn't the same<BR>principle apply?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, it's the same principle, I would think. <P>I am wondering if you are talking about a clean house, sexual gratification, working outside the home, atta-boys (you're such a big strong man) or what? <BR> <BR>To me, it could work in reverse, as well. Like what if you're married to a man who just happens to be "mechanically challenged" (can't fix a car, for example)... you like the manly-man, grease under the fingernails type... just like dear old dad... something like that... and he kinda sorta worked on cars before, but now he's too busy with work and all... so he takes the car to a mechanic. Is your need for a manly-man being met? See how ridiculous that sounds? Don't even get me started... oops, I already am!! Revved up, that's me right now!! <P>

Wait a minute!<P>I'm fine with him taking the car to the mechanic - he can't fix anything!<P>He is also fine with me having a maid, nanny, whatever. But it's not that simple!<P>He wants a clean house, 3 square home cooked meals, perfectly behaved children...and it's all up to me (again until recently).<P>One change I made was to get someone to clean once a week, but that's just the beginning. I sure don't want a live-in!<P>I strongly believe that kids need a full-time parent in their young years so I signed up for it voluntarily. But even when I worked the house was all my responsibility. And now they are starting school, I want to explore my work options again...

Got ya, Schizzo,<P>So, I guess I want to know what IS he expecting of you that you're finding difficult to provide? It sounds like you're doing a great job! <P>'Splain please...<P>By the by... mucho respect for stay at home moms!! Wish I could have done it myself <P>...and a P.S. The drippy breasts thing had me laughing for ten minutes!

Now you got me started!<P>Yes, he took an exciting 40 wk/yr travel job in part to afford me staying home as I wanted to for the kids.<P>But for too long, everything has revolved around his job (and it made cheating so easy, but that's another subject).<P>With him gone all the time, I couldn't pursue a career right now. What about the kids (3 and 5)? For so long, I was willing to give up my dreams because after all I couldn't run the household and pursue a career and follow him around the world just to see him!<P>I am seriously rethinking that position. I am not POJA about any of this. And to say his EN is to have support at home (in English it means not do anything like his Dad) has begun to [censored] me. What about my need for domestic support? What about following my dreams? Why can't I have a family and a career?<P>I gave it all up, did my best as an almost single mom at home (while he travelled 1st class eating, drinking, etc. Though he did have some tough sales quotas to make.) As the big reward I get to learn he has been having As for the past few years!

Hear you, Schizzo <P>Believe me, when I was **not** staying at home, I was LEAVING my kids with him while he took them to the park and pre-school where the OW of the moment was the pre-school teacher! So, while I was working my fat a&& off to help support my family, he was dinking around with whats-r-face... <P>Same difference, as far as I can see!<P>I applaud your desire to live your dreams. Maybe get it onto paper (for yourself first, so that you can put it all together in your head before you present it to him), and then go to him, see what he says.<P>Honest to goodness, Schizzo, I DO hear you loud and clear!

We posted at the same time! And I do have to pick up my kids...<P>Oh and the 40 weeks of TRAVEL! He still works a lot when not travelling.<P>I thought I did explain what he expects - what's her name Martha Stewart? I'm a bit disorganized and it has been sooo hard measuring up.<P>But now I'm thinking about what I want! I want a man who will help me fix some of the meals, who will help iron HIS clothes, who will be a real, everyday Dad.<P>This weekend he taught my 5 yr old son to ride a bike in half an hour! They are so good together and it did me so much good to watch them. This too is part of the new h. I really never thought I would see him do anything for his own kids that I didn't have to plead for.<P>And he is starting to help around here and even give me breaks from the kids.<P>When we first started this, it was all the ways that I didn't meet his ENs that caused him to cheat. <P>Because the house was messy, the kids were misbehaving...and I jumped into plan A...but now I say first:<P>You chose to do what you did, it is not my fault!<P>I question his need for a "model" home, especially if he won't get his hands dirty.<P>We posted at the same time again! Thank-you for saying you hear me.<P>I stay home to raise our kids, and he told me back then how much he admired OW, 21 yr old school girl, because she knew what she wanted! I had already put myself through school and pursued a career for 12 yrs before I stayed home at the ripe age of 33!<P>There was no end to his stupidity back then...<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited September 25, 2000).]

Schizzo and New_B.,<P>Whoa girls!!! you have left me in the dust and I'm trying to catch up and process all of this at the same time...<P>Lighthouse:<P>You are so right in saying that there is no bond stronger than the emotional one for creating sexual intimacy!<P>That is the strongest emotion my h and I share. He has told me so many times that I am the only one he can truely respond to on this level and there is no comparison between me and any other female. She(OW) can not do the same for him as I do and that his feelings for me are sheer emotion.<P>He knew very instinctively that he would never be on the same emotional level with her as he is with me and that is why he had arousal problems when with her. She did every thing in her power to turn him on and he just couldn't get there! But, she was one horny babe because she would settle for next to nothing just to (excuse me) get off! <P>I am over weight, not severly, but enough and I am self conscious about my body. I had my last child when I was forty! My h loves my body, knows every square inch of it and he says he loves my skin. Sure he is not happy with it being out of shape and sometimes I believe he is truly concerned with the health issues it may present later in my life. <P>Alot of movie stars have done this but like Schizzo said, Who has the resources to look like they do after giving birth at age forty.<P>Schizzo,<P>I have always heard that women dress for other women, have you ever heard this saying? Men don't care what we wear because if they had their way we wouldn't wear anything. I know that when we were first back together, we would go to the clubs that they would frequent together. I would dress to the nines, hoping to see her. Unfortunately, she saw me but I didn't see her b/c I don't know what she looks like.<P>The Martha Stewart thing is a hoot! A physic told me that my H thought I was more of a Martha type and he wanted more of a somebody, I can't remember her name, I asked my 27 year old son who that was and he said she was a porn queen. I just about flipped b/c I am a Martha Stewart, there is nothing I can't do and I am a bit anal. <P>I too, love it when h does things with the children, that is a big turn on for me but he doesn't do it with enough consistency for me to stay in the sack with him... Why don't they ever sit down and figure out these things like we do?<P>New_B,<P>I certainly didn't marry my h for looks, I was dating the hottest thing in this town when h asked me to marry him. My h has a personality to stop a freight train. He is a small, not so handsome, of Italian descent, very talented, high profile individual, with the temperment of a bull but the gentleness of a kitten. <P>I was model perfect,couldn't help it, didn't try to be, girls hated me for no good reason ( still do ) and I had to beat the boys off me when on a date to save my virginity, for this unbeknownst to me, Italian raging bull. <P>Anyway, looks are not everything! They help but it's what's inside I think, don't you? <P>You girls keep going, I am enjoying this soap.<P>Cathy

Well Schizzo,<P>I'll tell ya...<P>Here's why I hear you: I have been there emotionally. I felt I couldn't compete with ankle bracelet woman no matter what I did. She was younger than me by five or six years, was on welfare and worked part-time at the day care center, so could work on her infamous tan (I hope she looks like an old shoe now ) and lounge around looking perty for my H. It made me sick. So, I did go back to school, and it's taken me ten full years to complete my AA degree while working full time. One class at a time, doncha know. <P>I hate regrets. I don't want any! The only way to stop them is to either change the way things are now, or learn to accept them (like you don't know that, eh?) I have made some mistakes, but I choose to see them as "learning experiences" and move forward. No more looking back!! **Except of course for the paragraphs above and the two or three posts before that!! LOL

Cathy,<P>We posted at the same time <P>I sooooooooooooooooooooooo agree that we dress to impress each other - as much, if not more, than for men. <P>Schizzo and I have slowed way down on our posting (jeez, I do have a job to do! ) so you have some time to catch up!<P>Great topic, and not as hostile as it has been in the past. Really, you should do a search... I've gotten into it big time with K about plastic surgery.<P>Fun stuff ... but truth be told, quite painful too! <P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 25, 2000).]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeey now. Who said you can't be beautiful and still be a worthwhile wife/companion?<P>I think you can. I am told everyday I look strickingly similar to Pamela Anderson. I have 2 college degrees, I beleive myself to be a really good wife and a great mommy. I am a talented singer. I work full time as an office manager, yada yada.<P>You can too be good looking an still be a good person/wife/companion.

Dear Schizzo,<P>I guess we all have regrets, I know I do. I really don't know what my dreams are aspirations were when I was younger and I still don't know, although I have discovered where some of my talents are, but I'm not so sure they would have been my dreams. I don't know what I expected from life...<P>I guess I expected life to be better for me than it was for my mother and it has been so far. When I graduated high school, you either went to college and became a school teacher, or learned how to snag a doctor or lawyer or you got married to whomever. I chose the latter.<P>I have not furthered my education to include any degrees at this point, but I have become extremely interested in domestic law. Why is that you ask, Duh!!!<P>Sometimes I resent that I have basically been a single parent, my h has been so career oriented and I suppose he expected me to be the single parent. But, if something is not quite up to his standards, all hell breaks loose and I am the baddy. I have done the best I can do with what I have had to do it with.<P>I guess I do have some regrets, but I will always be thankful for having had the opportunity to raise my children without intervention from others.<P>Talk later, got to go!<BR>Cathy

SadnLonely,<P>Heeeeeeey, nobody said you can't be drop dead gorgeous, go to school, work outside the home (or in) and be a good wife/mother and everything else and then some... but it ain't easy!!<P>The point of this thread, I think (since it has meandered around a bit) was that cathy felt bad that she'd gained weight and her H didn't show her much appreciation regardless of how much she weighed. This is not a slam on good looking people at all...hey, I consider myself pretty okay looking (I'm told I look like Bette Midler, either love how she looks or hate it! ) and I'm sure all the women here are beautiful ... ah shucks, let's face it, we are all uniquely beautiful <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 25, 2000).]

I would love to add to my credits as being one who is drop dead gorgeous with two degrees, a good job and the ability to juggle a career and motherhood with much enthusiasim and ease and also be the number one best companion to my H. I think this is wonderful,if you can pull it off, but I don't recall anyone saying you can't have it all. I only possess two or three of the attributes. But I'm a good mom and a terrific Martha Stewart clone! <P>I do remember one thing I did want to accomplish, I wanted so badly to become a Radio City Music Hall "Rockette". I was too short to even audition. I danced for thirteen years, was a sprinter in high school, had the legs but not the height. Still have those legs!!!<P>Oh well, I guess I have really gotten off track here. I must be searching for a pat on the shoulder or something like that.<P>When I finally accept me for what I am and who I am and can be comfortable with that, I will probably ease off on myself, lose this weight, help some other prospective Rockette make it (granted she is a little taller than me) then I will feel I have somehow accomplished a part of my dream.<P>I do not ever again want to be judged for what I am worth because of how I look or how much I weigh, because this is clearly not fair. But who said life was fair, right! I am me, an individual, very unique and special. I just need to believe this!!!<P>I have decided that I will never again allow this special person in my life or anyone else I meet to treat me so indignantly and with such disrespect, regardless of how I look physically.<P>Cathy<P> <p>[This message has been edited by Catplay (edited September 25, 2000).]

Dear Cathy,<P>Re: your quote...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have decided that I will never again allow this special person in my life or anyone else I meet to treat me so indignantly and with such disrespect, regardless of how I look physically.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Amen !!<P>And we ARE all uniquely beautiful!! <insert heart icon here><P>Take good care of yourself, you deserve it!!

Catnip and the rest of ya's<P>I think your all drop dead gorgeous from what I can see and that is your personalities.<P>(read back on page 2 a man said he couldn't marry a beautiful woman because that would be all there is to her)<P>Have a great evening yall.

I want to thank all of you for posting on this thread, which I didn't believe would take off like it did.<P>For some strange reason I feel kind of like my old self today. I feel better about me and that I am ok with me. I even feel like my h feels better about me. It's been a good day. Maybe it was all the thoughts, sharing and encouragement I recieved from all of you, I don't know. <P>Cjack, I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post, but don't think I didn't appreciate it. I'm sorry your W thinks she is beyond you now, she couldn't possibly, truly believe that. I don't think all women would better themselves and then run out on you, we are all different. She is definitely in a fog!!!<P>I will make it in this world, one way or another. I think my h worries that I will better myself and leave him high and dry, but I guess that is the chance we all face. I don't plan to do that, but who knows what the future will bring...<P>I do feel better and I feel like a burden has been lifted off me. I feel like stripping down in front of my H and saying here I am, this is what I am, take me as I am...for I am GOOD!!!<P>It's a GOOD THING!!!(MS)<P>Love and bless you all!(I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET THOSE CUTE LITTLE FACES ON HERE.)<BR>Cathy

Cathy,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have decided that I will never again allow this special person in my life or anyone else I meet to treat me so indignantly and with such disrespect, regardless of how I look physically.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is the key!<P>I have realized that no one has treated me in any way that I have not allowed!<P>My first reply to you before I went around with Sheryl was to recommend Phil's book. He teaches life's ten laws and one of them is:<P>Life Law #8 "We Teach People How To Treat Us"<P>For me, it was first painful to admit that I am never a victim. Later, as it sank in, it was so EMPOWERING!<P>Get the book and workbook and do this for YOURSELF...<P>Take care...<P>And yes, I look like the lady from 10 as she looks now (she's 43?), what's her name? I have a great mind, but trouble retrieving names, must be my internal filing system...<P>

By the by,<P>I have Phil McGraw's book/workbook too!<P>I am the self-help book QUEEN, and I can tell you that this is one of the best.<P>Cathy, as you can see, Schizzo and I both quoted the one small paragraph that said wonders about how you've progressed through this thread. You are beautiful, period. No man can make you that way. You just are!<P>Best wishes to you!!!<P>Sheryl <P>Edit, edit, edit... Cathy, the faces are on the Smiles Legend next to the posting box. Schizzo, Bo Derek... and if you look like that, I'm jealous! <P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited September 26, 2000).]

OK - I haven't read all 60 something replies to this post - but am putting my 2 cents in anyway. I am 5'2", weighed a plump but not huge 125 before the A, and weighed 100 lbs. one month after d-day thanks to the Infidelity diet. 7 months later, we are finally getting back to normal, my over anxious metabolism is slowing down, and I am petrified of gaining this weight back. I've been at 103-105 for about 5 months. <P>H listed "attractive spoouse" as # 7 on his list of EN - Bull****! #1 was sex, and one of the main reasons we didn't have such great frequent sex before the A was that he made me feel so self conscious about my body - my flabby tummy looked like an extra appendage. Now it looks like a deflated old balloon, very wrinkled, but flat at least! And after 10 years, I can look decent in a pair of jeans again. <P>Anyway, when H made the final decision to stay with me instead of run off with the OW, his comment was "you won - now, don't get fat on me again!" Such a sensitve man. Actually, he was trying to be funny, but it still had a ring of truth to ti. But, I love my new body, my new wardrobe, and most importantly, the confidence it has given me. Obviously, I didn't lose all this weight on my own. But I have worked hard, maybe too hard to keep it off. Workout 3 days a week to get that deflated baloon football under control, and my overall muscle tone is better than it has been in 20 years. Really, I feel like I did it for myself. My H is pleased, no doubt about it. But for a while there, when he was considering leaving, I had to face the fact that I could eventually be out in the old dating world again, so that was also an incentive to make myself as attractive as possible. <P>Anyway, everyone always says - you have to love what is on the inside, not the outside. In my case though, my H's need for the physically attractive spouse, however shallow and superficial, is our reality. Sad but true. So I live in fear of gaining the weight back. I feel like a fat person in a skinny body. Good luck to all those struggling with this issue. <BR> <BR>

Ok, <P>Queen of self help, I am working on self-talk and it is making an enormous difference. Would you care to comment on what I wrote on Genie's thread?<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005783.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005783.html</A> <P>Bo Derek, that's right. Memory loss already?<P>Speaking of Bo, I saw a special on her about how her 25 year marriage started as an affair when she was 16. He divorced Linda Evans and had to go to Mexico to marry her since she was underage...