H and I had another long talk last night. He said some things that are giving me some hope. I'd like to share them with you and see what you think.<P>He said that he was really confused right now. He has been heading in one direction for several months (divorce), but things between us seem to be changing for the better and now he feels like he needs to re-evaluate what he wants. I did tell him that I don't think we can make much progress in our marriage if he is involved with someone else, and it seems it would be hard to make a decision about what our marriage could be if we can't try it without an OW in the picture. He agreed- sort of. <P>He said he sometimes feels like he needs to remove himself from his situation with the OW so each of them could make decisions about where they were going without stress from the other one. He does not want to be responsible for the break-up of her marriage. I know- a little late for that one. but I think that he realizes that he doesn't want her to make a decision about her marriage based on what she thinks will happen between them.<P>He said that it is very unlikely that a relationship between them would work. She is accustomed to a certain lifestyle that he cannot provide. I have been the main breadwinner in the family and he financially can barely support himself. He stated some other reasons that it wouldn't work- step children for both of them, x-spouses,etc.<P>He said that the changes in our ability to communicate combined with the changes that I've made while Plan Aing make him think that we could probably be somewhat happy if he moved back in now. He thinks that with a little time and effort, we might even be able to be happy again.<P>I told him that I would love for us to be back together, but an OK marriage was not what I wanted and I will not settle for that. I told him that I feel like we have the potential to have a truly happy marriage and that is what I want.<P>Oh- in the course of the conversation, he said that OW is terribly jealous of me and very insecure about her relationship with my H. HaHa. That one made me feel better.<P>I guess I really have some misconceptions about their relationship. They apparently don't discuss the other's marriage or relationship with respective spouses. They don't discuss future plans. Although this is how their friendship grew (discussing marriage problems), they now live for the moment. I thought the "other" relationship was full of complaints about the spouse and plans for the future.<P>Anyway, the last time we had a conversation about us, he wanted a divorce and I gave him the speech- if that's what you want, I won't stand in your way, it's not what I want so I won't help or do it for you. Is he maybe coming out of the fog? I'm trying to not get my hopes up, but he hasn't admitted to being confused about what he wants for a long time.<P>What do y'all think?

I do think it sounds pretty positive! Sounds like he is a little out of fantasyland and he realizes that a long term relationship with her would be full of problems. That has to be a good thing.<P>Have you tried phone counseling with the Harleys? It sounds like a really touchy time, where if you could get him to call and they could educate him on how your marriage could be great he might begin to consider it. Steve tried to get my H to call him saying it was to help me grow and deal with this. But I am sure he would slip in a little MB philosophy. <P>I think their relationship is starting to deteriorate, can LB be far behind? I think you have to be carefull not to be the one pushing and educating him, just be there as a good , safe alternative when she is jealous and insecure.<P>Then again there is plan B. If you are supporting him in any way financially or emotionally, it might make him realise what he has to loose. I know that isn't what plan B is truely about, but it is one aspect of it. I really think you should talk to the Harleys and see what your best move should be.<BR>Lora<BR>

Thanks for your reply Lora<P>I have not tried counseling with the Harley's, but I've been thinking that I need to. My H mentioned just in the last week that he would like to talk to a counselor that we used in the past- just a time or two. When he lets himself think about it, he feels pretty guily and has at times had difficulty dealing with it. I do think that I might be able to get him to talk to Steve Harley at least once- but I agree- this is a touchy time and I don't want to seem pushy. And by the way, coulseling that we had in the past did not help. At that time, H was talking about moving out and had not admitted the A. Our counselor told us that he could not help us unless we both wanted the marriage to work. We had to have unified goals in order for the counseling to be beneficial. With all that I have learned since then, I now realize that this was the WRONG approach!<P>I am offering no financial support, but he does get emotional support from me. I have thought about Plan B, but right now I feel like I am finally seeing some benefit from Plan A. I tried to do it for so long with no response, that I am really enjoying the responses I'm getting now. I don't want to wait too long, but right now it's kind of fun.<P>I think I'll make an appointment with a Harley. Thanks for the suggestion.

Coudy,<P>It does seem as though you H is coming around and starting to see things in the OW for what they really are. Only he can put an end to that relationship and I think given time he will. A state of confusion seems to tell me that he is begining to come out of the fog. Believe me, when they talk about being in a fog, you are.<P>One thing in your post did catch my attention. You said you were the main bread winner in your marriage. Does he ever say anything about this to you? If not, maybe it is something both of you should talk about. Some men have a problem in relationships when the W makes more than the H, and it is not something they want to acknowledge. I really think if you pick your way carefully through this subject and discuss it in a positive way, your marriage could reap big rewards. One last question; how does the OW compare financially to your H?<P>Just some thoughts. Good luck to you.<P>......fs

Firestorm-<BR>Thanks so much for your thoughts. I look forward to talking more to you gaining your insight.<P>In answer to your question about the financial stuff- I have always made more money than H. This is something we talked about a lot in the beginning of our relationship. He seemed to be OK with it at first. Then his 3 kids from a previous marriage moved in with us (one at a time, but we had all three before our 2nd anniversary). At this time, we made a decision that he would work part time and do kind of a Mr. Mom thing. He took the kids to school, then went to work. He got off work and picked them up from school and stayed with them in the afternoons. He was the one that took them to softball practice and any other after school activities. I was the homework person, chef, housekeeper.<P>Anyway, our first child came along when we had been married for about 1 1/2 yrs. We had a pretty instant family and a house full quickly. Our children were in day care until school age. We have always involved made all financial decisions together and he acknowledges this. However, he apparently did start feeling that he was depending on me too much financially and started to feel "stuck". I do think this was very gradual, but combined with an apparent mid-life crisis, he felt the need to prove to himself that he could make it on his own. He has recently gotten a much better paying job, though still substantially less than I make. <P>So, as you can tell, a lot has gone on in our marriage related to the financial stuff. We have discussed it on and off over the years. I think it is still a problem for him. In reality, the lifestyle we have together is better than he can afford alone. He can't by himself afford the things that he wants to be able to give his kids (from his first marriage).<P>His OW is a stay at home mom with 2 kids. Her H apparently makes decent money and they live comfortably, but that's all I really know.<P>Suggestions? I know this is long, but there's a lot going on here. Did I answer your questions?

Firestorm....<P>You know, the more I think about this, the more sense it makes. H spent a lot of time being angry at me several months ago and I really could not figure out why. He said he felt angry, but also did not really know why.<P>Now, I wonder how much of this is because he cannot afford the life he thinks he wants without me in it? OW will not be able to contribute financially to their life together. She could go to work I guess, but she apparently never has worked and I know that it would really hurt Hs self esteem if she had to work because he couldn't provide for her.<P>I know it bothers him a great deal to think that he needs me in this way. But what can I do?

cloudy,<P>Have you thought that maybe he is threatened that you make more money? My h was when I did our first years and I know he couldn't function well in the Mr. Mom role.<P>We counselled with Jennifer Harley. Surprisingly, I think my h could take it better coming from her than another man. She talked to him a lot, helping him to move off his duff and start meeting my needs.