I apologize in advance if I get too graphic, here.<P>Men confuse the heck out of me, y'all! Or maybe it's just my H, I don't know. <P>He's somewhat into porn. Not obsessive, but maybe on a weekly to bi-weekly basis, he'll jump online and peek around if me and our son are not home. He doesn't try to hide it from me - if I ask him, he's straight with me about it. But the porn he looks at...it's not like Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated - it's basically the equivalent of Hustler. We're talking FULL exposure and everything literally out in the open.<P>Anyway, a girlfriend of mine had some boudoir pics done up here, and they turned out great! They will actually do the "Hustler" thing, but they lean towards more classy photos. Well, I thought it might be fun to do...if you can't beat 'em, join 'em and outshine 'em! *lol* <P>I got my Frederick's of Hollywood catalog, and so I started pointing out some teddys, garter belts, etc. out to my H and asked him to pick some things out for me to wear. He said, "I'm not into that sort of thing."<P>??????????????????????????????????????????<P>I then told him about the pics I was planning to do, and he said, "if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead." I was like, "no, I thought that YOU would enjoy them." He said, "why do I need pictures of you naked, I get to see you naked every night." I then asked why he didn't think any of the teddies would be sexy for me. He said, "They're trashy! I don't want to see you in those."<P>I went on to say, "well, I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking you, because that's not my intention, but why does it turn you on to see that kind of thing on the internet, but it doesn't if I wear it?" He said, "because you're my wife. I don't want to see you like that because I love you and I respect you. It's different when it's a woman that you don't know and 'aren't real'." Great, that really assures me that I don't have to worry about him engaging in a one-nighter if given the opportunity!<P>Okay, I'm sorry, I don't get it. I have heard so many guys complain that their wives are prudish about sex, and here my H is complaining that he doesn't want *ME* to look trashy. Any other chickie he LOVES to look at the raunch, but he doesn't want to see his wife like that. I'm sorry, he SHOULD want to see me like that - I mean, I am supposed to be the last person he ever has any kind of relations, sexual or otherwise with. He should be able to fulfill all of those needs with me, not just the "respectful" ones!<P>And if he doesn't want to see me as trashy and respects me so much, why is he still into toys, movies, sodomy, dirty talk, etc. with me? I mean come on, if he can do THAT, what's wrong with seeing me in a f'n lace teddy? He says that for me, lace gowns and open robes over bras and panties are sexy in a good way.<P>Can somebody, either the guys or women married to similar people explain this concept to me?

This is an easy one <P>For many, many men, there are two kinds of women, when we are young they are those who do, and those that don't. As we get older it becomes those we take home to meet mama, and those we don't. Then it becomes those that we marry and those that we don't.<P>Your husband looks at you as one of the "good girls", one of the girls that you take home to meet mama, one of the girls that you respect. The girls that pose nude for magazines, porn movies, etc...., may be attractive, sexy, beautiful, but they are not the type of women that deserve respect or can meet the family, they are sex objects, nothing more, nothing less. Your husband is just letting you know that he doesn't view you in that way, you are more to him than just a piece of a$$.<P>I do think that has husbands we do tend to forget that while we may view our wives as women that should be held up to the utmost respect, that they are still sexual beings and we should admire and take part in that sexuality, sometimes we go to the extreme of looking at our wives as the second coming of the virgin mary, instead of looking at them as the complete human beings that they are.

Could it be that your H is just a little embarrassed? <P>I can see what he is saying although it is hard to put into words, isn't it? Perhaps he was somewhat surprised by the idea. I come from a family where sex was like a dirty word and as such I was sorta shy. Being daring and a little slutty felt wrong to me, it just wasn't in my character. Could it be that it is out of character for you as well.<P>I would suggest that if it is something that you want to do then approach it like that. If it is just something that you are willing to do in order to get your H's attention because you somehow feel like you have to compete with that sort of image to avoid his straying again.... then I don't think that you are being very true to yourself and who you are. Could that be what upsets him?<P>I also have the problem of being a little overweight so I have a self image problem when it comes to me but the several times that we have gotten a little nasty... it sure has been fun.<P>But I would say only do it if you want to do it. Don't do it because you think that is what would make him happy b/c of the pics he looks at sometime.<P>If it is something that you want to do. Then I would suggest that you just kind of lead up to it a little. Maybe you get yourself some new nightwear... and with each new purchase you could make it a little more daring. Make it fun, flirt with him and tease him a little. But most of all, have fun together both inside and outside of the bedroom.<P>I once bought some new stuff and instead of just jumping straight into modeling it for him, I hung it up on the door for a while and he would look at it and wonder. It made it more fun that way too.<P>Just a suggestion.<BR>Genie<p>[This message has been edited by Genie29 (edited September 26, 2000).]

Carolina:<P>Human sexuality is a weird thing, that's for sure. I think that FA has it at least partially right -- some men have a "Madonna/Whore" thing going on, where they can only see women as one or the other of those -- either pure, virginal and good or a piece of trash to be gawked at, exploited, and, ultimately, made sexual use of. Neither is a very adult or mature way to look at a woman. Real women are both good people and sexual people, and there's no reason to make such a bright line between the two, unless you think that sex is bad in some way.<P>I don't know if that's what's going on with your husband or not. Could be that, like most men (myself included, to an extent), he's got the ability to separate his emotional and human feelings for someone from his sexual feelings for them, or he considers the latter to be "bad", or "dirty," and not appropriate to be shared with you. That's not the healthiest way to approach sex either, but it certainly isn't uncommon<P>I would hesitate before agreeing that you are supposed to be his ONLY sexual outlet. Certainly, he's not supposed to be intimate (either emotionally or physically) with anyone but you. But human sexuality, including fantasies, masturbation, etc., has a variety of facets, and you might fulfill, or be involved with, only part of them.<P>In short, I wouldn't worry about this unless you thought that the porn-viewing was affecting your sexual relationship with H, or was drawing an undue amount of his attention, affecting other parts of your relationship, or was causing him to want things he shouldn't have (random sex with a stranger, for instance). Wearing sexy stuff to bed is a nice touch, but I agree I wouldn't force it on him if that's not something he wants. Maybe, if you're really serious about wanting to fulfill that part of his sexual life, you could start small, with words, casual references, occasionally putting on something a little more risque, etc.<P>Take care, hope you're well.

Hi Carolina,<P>It IS weird! Go figure! And I doubt that your H could explain it himself even if he wanted to.<P>When men look at porn, they are OBJECTIFYING the women. The women aren't wives, moms, someone's daughter - they become tits and *ss and whatever else is hanging out. You may think less of me, but I used to strip for a little while (just long enough to ruin my marriage) and the men who came to watch did not see me as a person at all. And the ones who did were only pretending to long enough to see if they could get me into bed. <P>Your H does NOT objectify you - it sounds like he has more respect for you than that. He just doesn't view you in that way. So, don't ask yourself what do thay have that you don't - it's the other way around. YOU are the one with a beating heart. <P>Maybe you can compromise - there are outfits that are a cross between a teddy and a nightie - like really short nighties that are lacy and see-thru that come with a skimpy thong (those are my favorite!)<P>I know you want to do this teddy thing, but can you focus on the awesome things the two of you do already? I think that nearly every sexual relationship has territory that's considered no-man's-land. It's a normal human thing. Be happy that for you guys it's just a yard or so of lacy fabric that will run you $50.00 and come right off anyway Plus you gotta handwash them, then hang 'em up to dry... <P>Whaddya think - compromise?<P>Khyra<BR> <P>PS CB, I just read your post in "updates" - we have a lot in common (even tho I am on the other side of the betrayal coin I just had to shake my head! COngrats on doing better, I hope it stays good - BTW, I'd make my presence known at his classes too, lol - I do that EVERYWHERE my H goes. Take care, K)<BR> <p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited September 26, 2000).]

OHHHHHHH ME OVER HERE HEY!!!! We have just been going through this same stupid thing. OK, husband explained it as such:<P>Part One: Strange. It is "strange" so therefore it is enticing. Mebbe a cop-out, who knows.<P>Part Two: Whore in the bedroom, Angel in the kitchen. He NEVER told me he liked the whole exotic dancer/stripper thing. I wouldda done it, really, but I didn't know. Now I know, he did the whole nah you don't have to thing, but I did it anyway and BINGO. As long as he knows you are doing whatever it is JUST for him and nobody else, than it is fine, and lemme tell you, it was a lovely evening with me in my new fishnet whatevertheheckitwas, pretending to be not so me. <P>Give it a whirl. If he doesn't like it, don't take it personally, but I betcha he is gonna WOOOOO HOOOOOO. <P>Elizabeth the brazen hussy!

I kinda have to agree with Justthe brazen hussey! Chapter 5 and 6, in the Ten Second Kiss. <P>If it is fun for you, then it is worth at least one try. <P>This advise is coming from a woman who made a personal erotic calendar for her man. He loved it, and said, "Aren't you the mother of my chldren?" hehe<P>(maybe he just doesn't want you to spend the money!)

Oh baby, oh baby..... Thinking more about this through the night, and now completely positive that you should (KC and the Sunshine Band) do a little dance, make a little love, get down tonight, get down tonight......<BR>Not to overwhelm him, but a little wiggle here and there as the clothes come off, a cute new pair of panties (take it from Monica - do the thong thing)and maybe a candle or two.....<BR>Elizabeth the brazen hussy (still glowing from her new experiment)

Carolina Belle,<BR>I can't figure out your husband, either, 'cept maybe it's the whore/madonna thing. Men can compartmentalize sex very easily: sex just for the sex of it, doesn't have to be much of an emotional bond there, just so long as it is exciting and feels good. Of course it is better if there is a spiritual/emotional bond.<BR>Speaking for myself, I would whoooo hoooo hardy if my wife would get into the "slut image"! She's nice looking, but her attitude is "I'm more than just a body to look at." True, I don't dispute that. I'm not into porn, but something about a sexy, classy, but slutty-looking (great make-up and tight, revealing outfits) woman ooooooozing sensuality who love sex just sends me into orbit! Maybe that's one reason why my two affairs were with that kind of woman??????????<BR>I think your husband is one lucky man if you want to do that for him. Go for it!<BR>Rockaway

F A – I could understand that, except he doesn’t hold anything back when we do have sex! Since the birth of our son a year and a half ago, we only make love once or twice (if I’m lucky) a week (this is from once or twice a DAY). I miss the way it was before, and I guess I’m afraid that our love life is starting to go downhill…I don’t want my H to feel that he has to be inhibited in any way with me. You said it perfectly – we should be seen as complete human beings. If a woman was only meant to be nurturing and loving, men have their mothers for that! <P>Genie29 – It would surprise me if he were embarrassed. While he does come from a strict Southern Baptist family, he was the “black sheep.” He has been with close to 100 women in his life. He’s into some kinky things, not so much now as before. He has said that he doesn’t enjoy a lot of the things that he used to now that he himself is a father.<P>As far as I go, I’m still trying to figure out my “sexual” character. My H is only my second partner, and I guess the exploration that I’m wanting to do right now is part of trying to figure myself out. I can’t honestly say what’s normal and fun to me – I want to try things and find out! <P>Gosh, I’ve tried flirting with him again, and he just rolls his eyes! He thinks that because we’re married, he doesn’t need to try to flirt with me because he’s already got me. I’m still going to do the pictures…but not until I’m a little bit closer to the romantic threshold in Plan A. And I’m going to do some sexy shots – a la Victoria’s Secret, not Hustler. I think it will be a hoot! And I will buy the outfits and just leave them hanging for a while – I love that idea! Thanks!<P>Taxman – My H has been in love with 3 women in his lifetime, and has slept with 100 – there is no doubt in my mind that he can separate his emotional feelings from his sexual feelings! That’s what worries me at times. But I appreciate the explanation (even though I still don’t agree with it!)<P>I meant that I had better be his only living, breathing sexual outlet. I had a problem when he was OD’ing on the porn (simply because our sex life was dragging, and I felt like it was taking away from us.) But once a week or so, I can deal with.<P>Khyra – Why would I think less of you because you used to dance? Most of my friends from high school are dancers now (one of them has a beachfront home in West Seattle!), I don’t see anything wrong with it at all! And my friend Dom told me the same thing. But that’s the other odd thing – he is not into strippers at all! His friends try to get him to go up to Canada to see strippers all the time, but he refuses to go! Go fig!<P>I totally like the compromise idea! It’ll hide those last traces of pregnancy that I have (I weigh less than I did before I got pregnant, am a size 8, but NOTHING is in the same place! ARGH!!!) I’ve found a FABULOUS outfit at Frederick’s that I’m going to surprise him with tonight (I’ll let you know if it worked!)<P>I will meet him at his school (he goes from 6:30 – 9:30 at night on Wednesdays). I’m going to surprise him with my outfit tonight (I’ll go into details later!) Just as a subtle “keep your grimy hands to yourself, chickies!” visit.<P>Justthewife – LOL! I’m inspired now! My H is at school tonight, so he won’t be home until around 10:00…so here’s my idea: My mom is taking my son overnight. I’m getting my nails filled right after work, so I’ll go home straight after work. I got an outfit from Frederick’s – it’s a blue Satin Hollywood Kiss Bra & Panties outfit (this bra could make a 12-year-old boy look like Pamela Anderson! And yes, there is a matching thong!), and a matching satin robe that hits mid-thigh. That’s something I know he’ll like! Anyway, I’m going to go home, do a rush cleaning job, have the house candlelit with food on the table. Then I’ll have a couple of glasses of wine (to calm my nerves!) I’ll have 9 ½ Weeks going in stereo on the big screen. When he’s finished his small meal (I need to have him save room for “dessert!”), then I’ll do the lap dance Dom gave me a crash course on, and wing it from there! <P>Pilot’s wife – Oooh, a calendar! I love it! Mind if I steal that idea? Also, thanks for the Ten Second Kiss idea - we’re having a great time with it! Could you post her website one more time, though?<P>Rockaway – I think you’re right about the whore/madonna thing. And the more I think about it, the more I believe that when I actually DO it, he’s not going to turn me down. About a month ago, I had a couple of drinks, put on a red lacy bra, thong, garter belt and garter, and stripped literally in my H’s face (he was lying down on the couch). That turned him on faster than anything in recent memory (I guess when I drink, it’s different for him.) I mean, I agree, (NOT that ANYTHING justifies an affair!) if a man has a high need for sex (which most do), keeping it exciting will certainly LOWER the odds of an affair, unless he’s a sex addict. But thanks, I will spice things up w/my H! <BR>

I Liiike it! Good luck - scare those little chickes away, lol! go girl....<P>Pilot's Wife - where and how did you get the calendar made? If you don't mind me asking, how much did they charge you - ballpark figure ...? Thanks!<P>Khyra

All righty then!!! Will be anxiously awaiting ALL the gory details tomorow!! That is of course - If you have the energy!!! WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!! And hey - I've been asked how tired I am by the hubby, it seems he enjoyed the show.....

Any possibility that H is hiding an STD and HAS to avoid sex during certain times? Proved to be the case for us. He hid it for 10 years. EXPLAINS A LOT

relief - no, I'm pretty sure that's not it. We both got tested right after D-day (last Nov.), and this problem has been going on for close to two years now.

Hey, CB,<P>How about you wear the teddy or sexy whatevers under your clothes just for <I>you</I>?<P>If he just happens to see it sometime, well <BR>then, so be it. <P><BR>P.S. I have Victoria Secret on my speeddial!