How do you handle this one. My W is apparently extremely insecure or whatever, but every time I turn around I get accused or there is the hint that I am not being faithful, either emotionally or physically.<P>The irony is that my wife is the one who exhibits in my opinion, if one were counting, many signs that something is not right on her end. I can't name any other people, heck, if I were to name names I would suspect women as much as men.<P>I found a writing that my wife wrote back in July. It basically said she doesn't trust me, but she has not found any conclusive evidence to my infidelities, and once she does she is gone. There is nothing to find. She can get ahold of me 24x7, and if there is an instance she can't, I let her know exactly where I am and when I will be back, but that is rare.<P>A funny thing happened back in July too. We have four phone lines in the house. 1 for us and the household in general, and 1 for the kids, and two for computers. Well, we put a phone downstairs that has a second line on it. One night that phone was ringing. I went downstairs to see what was going on. It was late. Well, I picked it up and it was a recording that it was a collect call, but no name was given, so I didn't accept the charges and I hung up. Well, my wife came downstairs right when had said no and hung up. Turns out that second line is one of the lines we use for the computers. I don't even have a clue as to what that phone number is, but I was immediatly accused, not outright, but she might as well said it, that the call was for me. I blew said that was rediculous and said why me, it could have been for you. Personally I just think the call was one of those things, and nothing signifiant, but what bugs me is that it was a catalyst for and accusation.<P>Things she does that don't seem right for me...<BR>1. Just started dressing up for work. She use to dress professional but where she works is a real casual environment. As of a a couple of weeks ago, the attire has changed dramatically.<BR>2. She keeps a weird schedule. Comes home during the day to run or workout, while I am at work, then she goes back to work.<BR>3. Friendships. She developed two what seemed significant friendships this summer with two other women, to the point she talked about them a lot, worked out with them etc. Just as quickly as they became important, she dropped them. Weird.<BR>4. What seems like another new friendship with a guy at work. I know he is married, but his name is now coming up a lot.<P>Now I think these things could point to something but I doubt it. No matter what I might suspect, I have to, or at least I feel I have to trust my wife.<P>The kicker is she is gone now on a little vacation. She said she had to take three days off, they were a bonus, before the end of the month. Said she was going to Salt Lake City. Why? She never mentioned it before as a dream destination. We had a fight yesteray morning before she left cause I more or less stated I didn't understand this choice and I hoped she was being honest. <P>Over a day now, no word no nothing.<P>I am not having an affair. Nor have I had an affair. Have no desire to. I posted here last summer cause I was frustrated that she never came home from work. Leave super, super early, before the sun came up and not come home until way late.<P>I give her lots of attention, I think, I try to be nice and cheerful, even when things are not good for me at work, etc. I try not to take things out on her. I buy her gifts and try to surprise her with neat stuff that is original and with thought.<P>Bottom line is I love my wife. Period. But her erratic behavior coupled with her lack of trust in me has me really confused. Should I start digging deeper? Am I being naive? I read the post saying 50 signs your spouse is having an affair and many of the things are true, but do they really mean anything?<P>I just hope she comes back soon or at least calls.<BR>

Yes...<P>The <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000985.html" TARGET=_blank>50 signs your spouse is having an affair</A> post is important!<P>You shouldn't ignore it...<P>What to do?...<BR>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>These session can bring of <B>both</B> her concern of a possible infidelity... <B>AND.. your concern too!</B><P>Do follow the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> route...<BR>...check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>Ok, I read the 50 signs and I have a question... is there a tolerance or percentage that makes it look like there is an affair? I have 14 that match up or I can make a direct commment about.<BR>

Have you ever heard of "Freudian Projection"?<P>This is "the distinct mechanism of projecting one's own unconscious or undesirable characteristics onto an opponent."<P>Here's a collection of definitions:<P>"A defense mechanism in which the individual attributes to other people impulses and traits that he himself has but cannot accept. It is especially likely to occur when the person lacks insight into his own impulses and traits."<P>"The externalisation of internal unconscious wishes, desires or emotions on to other people. So, for example, someone who feels subconsciously that they have a powerful latent homosexual drive may not acknowledge this consciously, but it may show in their readiness to suspect others of being homosexual."<P>"Attributing one's own undesirabe traits to other people or agencies, e.g., an aggressive man accuses other people of being hostile."<P>"The individual perceives in others the motive he denies having himself. Thus the cheat is sure that everyone else is dishonest. <B>The would-be adulterer accuses his wife of infidelity.</B>"<P>"People attribute their own undesirable traits onto others. An individual who unconsciously recognises his or her aggressive tendencies may then see other people acting in an excessively aggressive way."<P>"Projection is the opposite defence mechanism to identification. We project our own unpleasant feelings onto someone else and blame them for having thoughts that we really have." <P>It sounds as if your wife is projecting her own adulterous feelings onto you. This may mean that there is no affair yet, but that she's in danger of falling into one, and it's a cry for help.<p>[This message has been edited by Dazed and Confused (edited September 28, 2000).]

Yes,I am aware of projection. That is why I am so confused... She is accusing me of doing things that I am not, not even displaying any of the signs, her accusations are for the most part based on assumptions that are not true, especially in regards to my friendships or contacts with other people.<P>Example. A couple of months ago she asked me if I would contact someone I knew who does wedding photos. I more or less said, gosh, I don't know how to even get in touch with her, we haven't had any contact for over a year... Well, she found this hard to believe and told me she assumed that we were in contact all the time... Truth be known I really don't talk to to many people.<P>So really, I don't get it... Personally I don't think she is being unfaithful. I just can't see it, but I don't know. I mean the signs are all there, but I am still not sure if it is true or not... Boy do I sound like I am in denial. Anyway... If she isn't, then is the concept that she is projecting those things on me not becuase she is, but because she has the perpensity to do that?

she just called. she ok. not much more to report.

Hi...I'm new to posting here but have been reading this forum on and off for about 3 years. I'm not going to go into my story in detail....basics are after years of wondering I finally came to the realization that my husband was living on the porn sites of the internet...he denied it...at the time I had really not ever been on the net. I decided it was high time I figured out just what he found so facinating...well I found out all right. Over several months I taught myself how to use the internet and learned how to chat. At first I was amused, that didn't last long. I quickly found out how dangerous chatting can be. I was sickened to learn about the world my husband had lived in for years, and of course beat myself up as to why I was not enough for him. And while doing all this research...met and fell in love with a man in the chat. It was everything I've read a hundred or more times in posts on this forum. This affair lasted less than 3 months, my husband (being a computer wiz) found out...this was almost 3 years ago. We are still married because of this Web site and Steve Harley. But the reason I'm posting this is because, after reading the first post here.....it was like my husband talking about me. I have for years had a gut feeling he was cheating on me...he claims he has never had a physical relationship with another woman. I have no proof except for what little I found on the history on the computer. When he found out I knew more about how it all works he would always clear things. I have been reading Dr. Harley's books again...and came to the chapter in "Your Love and Marriage" titled "What to do when your spouse has an addiction to porn" and it was as if I had written the letter. Never before in all that we have been through since D-day had it all come together so clear. My husband still will not admit he has an addiction, he says he has come so far. I do not deny this, and quite frankly I don't know how far he has come because I do not know where he was. What I am trying to say here is I have this "gut" feeling and I am convinced I'm right. So many other times when I had this nagging feeling my worst fears have been confirmed. I truely thought our marriage had hit rock bottom on d-day 3 years ago. What I have come to realize is I am living with a man that's an addict. I feel betrayed all over again. I will say the hardest thing I've ever been through was what I thought was recovery. Why do I feel like I'm starting all over again....why do I still have this nagging feeling, is it "Freudian Projection"? If so how do I deal with it?? I hope this made some sort of sense, I'm sure I'll read it and wish I hadn't posted but I need to start somewhere. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Hurtsobad,<P>That story is amazing. Maybe the reason that you are projecting or have that gut feeling is due to what happened in your past and your actions. I don't know.<P>I don't know. I think I am a pretty simple person, even though she says I am extremely complex. I prefer things in black and white. I like to put things behind me and move on. <P>I think I said earlier that I don't really chat with folks, or keep up friendships. My friends know who they are and know that I care for them, we just don't talk much. Anymore I am very, very self concious of talking to anyone outside of my marriage about anything. I feel more or less isolated. If I do talk to anyone then I get the third degree, if I don't tell then all goes well. I guess that is negative conditioning.<P>For instance. Last weekend, I called my cousin who was very close to me growing up. I know he has been dealing with some stuff and I just wanted to check up on him. Actually I called him Friday during the day, Friday night he called back and left a message at the house, and then on Saturday I called him back after I had run some errands and my wife was at the grocery store.<P>Well, she came home and I concluded the call. She got huffy and distant. Her issue was why did I call him, why did I feel the need, why didn't I tell her, what did we talk about, etc, etc. Pretty much told her that I was wondering about him and if he was ok. I never told her about what he was going through because it was personal for him. I told her our conversation was rather short and to the point, just checking in. But she got upset over it saying that I was shutting her out.<P>My argument wsa that it didn't seem like that big of detail to bring up. Now maybe I am wrong, but it didn't seem like that big of deal to call him and chat. Not like I was divulging any home secrets or anything even though I could nor was I saying anything about her. <P>That is the kind of stuff I get.<BR>

Thanks, I'm not quite sure about anything right now. I'm numb inside and really shouldn't be giving any advice. But I see myself in some of your descriptions of your wife. <P>I believe that she is very insecure....I live this daily. Have you read "His Needs Her Needs"? By Dr. Harley. If not get it, for you and for her. It opened my eyes and has really helped me become a better spouse. I have never felt adequate where my husband is concerned. Never skinny enough, not a good enough house keeper, not organized enough, the list is endless!! This constant feeling of inadequacy has fueled my belief that he has cheated. If my husband had broken down in uncontrollable sobs and told me how much he loved me years ago....the affair would never have happened. I can never make what happened go away, that is the consequence I have to live with. It is at times sickening.<P>I would just reiterate what was posted earlier and suggest talking to Dr. Harley. Your wife is crying out for help. I did for years and years....<P>Good Luck!

I thought my wife was incapable of infidelity, too. We have been apart for a year this week. She left town in June, works with the OM. If the subject is not untouchable, ask her. If you control your temper, it might help. I wish I had when I inquired.<BR>

YES YES YES!!!<P>The Projection Thing--at last, someone has addressed this on the forum.<P>This is the weirdest thing!<P>My spouse proposed to me, gave me a beautiful ring, and then demanded it back--because he was afraid that I was still in love with "some other man." We broke off the engagement about 5 times because he was sure that I wasn't sure.<P>He practically tortured me with his jealousy--he was positive at all times that I was going to cheat on him. He warned me constantly that if he ever caught me with another man, it was over. He told me that if I ever fell out of love with him, it was over. Boy, what a way to foster love--by threats.<P>I am a Christian, he professes to be an atheist. Never have a tried to push my beliefs on him; he always mocks my beliefs openly. Yet he constantly accuses me of trying to "convert" him.<P>His temper is outrageous. Yet he tells me that I "can't seem to control myself."<P>Once, we were going out to dinner. We were in the mall looking around, and I said "I'm starving, let's eat. What would you like?"<P>"I don't care."<P>"I don't care either. Should we get pizza?"<BR>"No"<BR>"Chinese?"<BR>"No."<BR>"Chicken?"<BR>"What do you want then, I don't care. I'm just hungry."<BR>He hollered "Will you quit whining in front of these people?"<BR>(Actually he said something that had the f-word attached, I don't remember exactly)<P>I began walking out to the car. He followed. When we got there, I quietly said "Don't evre speak to me like that again." and I got into the car. He got in and started screaming at me, face red, about how I had a horrid temper and I didn't care where I let loose. He told me that no one else would ever put up with me. I sat there, listening, and totally amazed.<P>I could go on and on, but I don't really want to. I have been accused of every negative aspect of his own personality and then some.<P>Especially lying. I have never told him a significant lie--I might exaggerate to color up a story or I might fib about how I spent some money (never in a huge way.) But the lies that he has told to me are downright frightening. He still accuses me of this.<P>And to top it all off, he is the one that has cheated. This is almost laughable when I think about it.

Bernzini,<P>Your message brought back some strong memories from before we got married. More or less the projection thing was going on then too.<P>I remember her saying that if I were going to have an affair that she wanted to get it over with then, meaning the relationship. She said that she did not want to be with anyone who would even consider having an affair. I agreed with the sentiment, yet I felt the force in the message was a bit strong. Actually it threw me off balance. <P>Even though I don't approve of affairs, I had done enough research to understand the dynamics of them such as needs being met or unmet. The point that I was trying to get across then was that I felt my needs were not getting met in some way and I don't even remember what it was, I wanted them met, and I didnn't want to even have the most remote temptation to go anywhere else to have them met.<P>I guess that by discussing affairs and what would cause one, I was wanting to affair proof the relationship. Guess she took it more as me saying you are doing this wrong and I need to get it elsewhere.<P>We have a lot of things to get through I think, trust is a big issue apparently on her part and now mine since I discovered via snooping that she has been snooping in my stuff all along looking for things. Of course she isn't going to find anything great or revealing, not because I am good at hiding stuff, more becuase I have nothing to hide.<P>I mean I went through the 50 signs, and found a solid 14 that I could say yes to and even wrote comments to them as applied to her. I think if she read it, objectively, she might be able to come up with one of the items to match and that would be, having a gut feeling which I read she had. Like I said, I don't know if there is a specific weight to each item, but that is the only one that applies towards me. For her, maybe that is enough. <P>If anyone is interested I can post the 50 signs again and my comments for review.<P>I guess what I don't understand is this. If you are not guilty or any wrong doing, and the person who is suppose to love you and trust you above all others, doesn't trust you, then how do you get them to trust you? Looks more to me like I am just screwed.<P>Earlier I said something about her making accusations, and I took it lightly then. More or less summed it up to normal relationship/pre-marriage jitters or something that would pass with time. It just seems to have gotten worse.

Maybe when she accuses you, you can say with a calm and very concerned voice <P>"Ask me anything you want to know. I promise to tell you the truth"<P>"What is it specifically that I do that you would like to see me do differently?"<P>"What can I do to make you feel secure and loved?"<P>And deal with her pro-actively, and not defensively. If you aren't having an affair, then you do not need to be defensive, instead you can start addressing the underlying fears with her insecurity?<P>Just an idea....<BR>TNT

I can identify with what you are going through. My H has suspected me since we first married. I have been posting on the conflict board and won't do details here, but when H and I started dating 7 years ago, I already had a BF of 2 years. The relationships overlapped by 4 months. The old BF knew I had a new sweetie as we were wrapping it up anyway, but my H (who was just a guy to me at the time) told me he wanted me to break it off B4 we had a relationship. I agreed, but it took me 4 months to finally give up the BF. H never knew I was still seeing the BF.<BR>Fast forward to our 1st wedding anniversary. H found out from a buddy that I had been seen with BF after H had introduced me as his girl. Buddy insisted that I was recently seen with BF. That was untrue! But H went nuts, smashed furniture, walls, and eventually pulled a gun on me and demanded I tell the truth. Well, I wet my pants and told him I'd seen the BF a couple times in the beginning, but I hadn't seen the guy in 3 years! That was 4 years ago.<BR>Ever since, I've been a filthy whore in his mind. If I get paged and don't respond w/i minutes, I couldn't call him because I had my legs in the air. I don't go out with friends or attend social activities w/o him. I've become a hermit. My old friends don't even call me anymore.<BR>3 weeks ago, I had to go away on business for 2 weeks. He went nuts and pulled the gun again, after smashing furniture, walls. He is certain I'm shacking up with someone in this other city. <BR> I've gotten to the point where his accusations have eroded my love for him. I don't even know if I love him anymore. I'm ready to ask him to leave the house after this last battle.<BR>

Mourning - I know it is none of my business. But I suggest you run- don't walk from this man. <P>If you can document this stuff with the gun or if he should do it again, call the police and get an order of protection or something similar. It's not safe to live in the house with a man who will pull a gun on you. If this man slips over the edge, you are in serious danger. <P>But you may take this opinion for what it is - my opinion.<BR>

I guess you can see where I am coming from; <P>I have no idea why my husband would be the way he is. It obviously stems from a huge lack of trust in others and sense of security. How one can achieve this for themselves, I do not know.<P>He has never trusted me, and I am sorry for that. How in the world can you make someone trust you?<P>When I met my husband, or started dating him, I should say, I was reeling from my divorce from my first husband. I had been dating a guy that I liked and who had dumped me, and I continued to have feelings for this guy, though after I started dating my husband, those feelings faded fast. I can see why he may have been insecure--a little insecure. I would have been. But that is not the end of the story.<P>I was ever in public with my husband, and I admired another guy's shoes, smiled at someone in a general greeting of goodwill, or sat next to a total stranger at a basketball game, it was grounds for an arguement.<P>I was in the army, I was the only female soldier in a platoon of about 30. This didn't go over real well. I felt like, and was considered, one of the guys with my comrades. I PT'ed with them, I played soccer with them, I did everything that they did and was proud that I could. Not one of them interested me as more than an associate, and they were hardly interested in me, as far as I could tell. They were very nice people. But every other day, I was interrogated when I came home from work.<P>Once after spending the day on the obstacle course, I came home with scratches all over my back from crawling underneath barbed wire. He freaked--he told me that it looked as if someone with sharp nails had been making passionate love to me. He went on and on and on with questions about how I had gotten those scratches, and everything I told him sounded so fake, because to me, it was just so stupid. There was nothing I could say that would satisfy him. In the end, I just laughed at him, and he shouted "I don't think that's funny!"<P>Once, one of my guy friends called and asked me to come to his farewell party--I wanted to, the two of us had spent many an afternoon under a HMWVV together--WORKING!!--but I am not really the party type and hanging around a bunch of drunk men wasn't my idea at fun. I called his house, got the answering machine, to tell him that I wanted to say goodbye, so I would stop by briefly. He called me back immediately and left a message on my machine, (I was outside "Oh, you didn't call my house, did you?!! My wife would be mad if she knew that there was a woman here." (here--meaning at his party, which was being held at another guy's house.)<P>Well, my husband of course, listens to all the messages on the answering machine tapes to make sure that I am being righteous. That one didn't sound too good, did it? I spent days trying to convince him of the real story--and he never did believe me. He actually called me a whore. It didn't bother me then because I know that I am not. The shoe didn't fit. He spent days calling around my unit to find soldiers that matched the phone numbers on the answering machine. By then, my friend was long gone to Ft Sill--as if I was going to have an affair with someone stationed 5,000 miles away from me.<P>When the day came to tell him that I was pregnant, the first thing that came out of his mouth was not "Oh, honey, how wonderful!" It was: "Are you sure that it's mine?" This time, I WAS mad. I refused to talk to him (what a downer when a girl has such great new!) He said "Well, I thought that was a perfectly reasonable question."<P>Now that he has had an affair, he is angry--with me. He says "You act like little Miss Angel, goody two shoes, like you are so pure. Hail Mary." He is ANGRY with me that I have never cheated on him--actually, I don't think he believes that I haven't. He still brings up the answering machine incident. It's like he is mad that he has failed in that department and I didn't. It's a total contest that I am not interested in competing in.<P>Mid-affair, he called me up and talked to me about reconciliation. (I did not know that he was having an affair at the time--I was heartbroken that he was being cruel to me and acting so weird.)<P>He told me "Why don't we move back in together, and I will make you comfortable, provide for you, and you can go back to school. Heck, you can even have a boyfriend if that will make you happy."<P>I said "What the heck are you talking about?!! That isn't a marriage! You are so weird!!"<P>Now I know that he wanted me down on his level. He was expecting it.<P>Well, he is going to be waiting a long time for that to happen.

Oh, my point is: He justifies himself in having an affair "because our marriage was so bad, all we did was fight."<P>And gosh, I wonder what it was that we fought about????<P>It was because he thought that I was going to cheat on him, and was sure that I was absolutely up to no good at all times.<P>How's that for a paradox?