My wife,22 and I,24 have been married for four years now. We have a 19mon old daughter. Everything seemed to be going great untill a year ago, Around September '99. At that time it seemed she begain to distence herself from me and now for a year I have just delt with the isolation of her actions. She started hanging out with a male co-worker, Josh,20. They had school together, worked together and she spent her extra time with him. I constently told her I needed her home with me but was told "I like being with Josh, he make me happy." That hurts so much. I am now geting tired of my wife staying out until 3/4am when she get off at 10p.m. Our sex life went for rabits to barley a kiss before work. When I ask if she's cheating on me I get a hard defensive "NO!" I would deffenityly beleive her but I have to keep thier friendship a secret because he is her boss. And I believe she tells thoughs who do know they "hang out togehter" I approve and I surley don't. I guess my point is, Is what she is doing by leaving me at home and barley ever spending quality time with me and giving it all to another man infidelity? And If so what do I do?

Hello and welcome to MB.<P>Your situation sure doesn't sound good to my ears. I would be extremely curious about the amount of time she is spending with the OM.<P>You ought to be getting a response from someone that can help you much better than I can but I did want you to know someone out here was reading your post and thinking about you!<P>Please read all the Harley amterial that you can. It will help you at elast get in much better touch with yourself and learn how to make the best of your situation!<P>I will wish you the very best!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Hi, looking for info. Welcome to Marriage Builders - I'm glad you found us - although sorry you had to come here. <P>What you are describing is DEFINITELY infidelity. Is your wife spending time with someone else that she should be spending with you? YES! Is your wife refusing to acknowledge that these actions hurt you? YES! Even if there is no physical contact involved, it is infidelity. However, to be perfectly honest with you, I believe from your description that there is very likely a physical affair going on.<P>Read everything you can on this site, particularly the sections on infidelity. If you can, purchase the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley. These tools will help you plan what you must do next.<P>PLEASE keep coming here. Ask a billion quesions if you need to - vent to us rather than at your wife ... you will understand more about this mess we are in as you read more of the posts in the forums and absorb the information provided by Dr. Harley.<P>Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Let me see if I get this right. Your wife<BR>is hanging out with her boss. She gets out<BR>of her job at 10pm but does not come home<BR>until 3 or 4am at night and you are asking<BR>if this is infidelity? Your sex life has<BR>deteriorated to nothing and you ask is this<BR>infidelity. You my friend are clearly in<BR>denial. The signs are clear she is having<BR>an affair. Do you really think she was going<BR>to say yes to your question? Not only is your<BR>wife in a fog but so are you. Does she need<BR>to hit you on your head with a hammer. What<BR>do you think she is doing until 4am in the<BR>morning. Are you really that blind? Good luck<BR>because she is clearly playing you for a <BR>sucker.

On MB, infidelity is defined by the spouse that feels betrayed. If you define what you feel as infidelity, then that is what it is, no matter what your wife wants to define it.<P>The good news is, that you can decide now what you want to do about it. Whether or not your wife admits, or whether or not you have put the pieces in your mind to decide if it is infidelity.<P>You can decide to try and restore the love in your marriage, and start in on plan A. <P>Plan A is hard though, but is the best option for you in your situation if you want to work on our marriage.<P>Go and read basic concepts, and also all about lovebusters and the lovebank from the links to basic concepts on the home page, and you will understand what I am saying.<P>PS, welcome to MB, you will find a lot of support and caring people here. You are NOT alone. <P>TNT

Bryanp, is that tone really called for?<P>This gentleman needs HELP, not berating from you.<P>I think it was Supreme Court Justice Abe Fortas who said of pornography, "I know it when I see it." <P>Infidelity is the same thing.<P>When a relationship with someone of the opposite sex outside the marriage becomes the primary emotional connection, or even as important an emotional connection, it's infidelity. <P>If this friendship makes you uncomfortable, and you are not an otherwise possessive person, it's infidelity.<P>There does not have to be sex for there to be infidelity.<P>These "friendships" are the toughest, because while sometimes there may be some physical contact, there's often no sex, so the betraying spouse doesn't see it as infidelity.<P>And yet all you know is the gnawing feeling in the pit of your stomach.<P>Left untended, these things CAN become full-blown sexual affairs.<P>I'm sure NSR will be here with his welcome post, but I will give you the following advice:<P>1) Read "His Needs, Her Needs." Try to determine what needs your W has that you may not be filling. You are not TO BLAME for what's going on, but there are undoubtedly areas in your marriage that you can do better with. You can't control what she's doing, but you can control what you do. <P>2) Read "How One of You Can Bring Both Of You Together," by Susan Page. This book explores relationships as a series of actions/reactions. When your actions change, her reactions HAVE to change.<P>This is a good time for some introspection on your part.<P>3) Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Technically Plan A is a post-discovery technique, but you are unlikely to get a discovery or confession if this is a nonsexual affair. Be the person she wants to be with. She has told you "I like being with Josh; he makes me happy." That is useful information. You do not make her happy. Why? Are you controlling? Self-involved? Unhelpful? Judgmental? Neglectful? Josh is filling needs that you're not. Find out what they are.<P>Marriage doesn't just happen. It's a job you do every day....a good job, a rewarding job, but a job just the same. Marriages die from neglect, just the way gardens do. Use this as an opportunity to learn something about yourself. Do things for yourself to get you through. Take a walk. Spend time with your daughter. Do some things around that house that have needed to be done.<P>If you are lucky (as I was) and the friendship hasn't gone too far, and the marital problem hasn't gone on too long, you will have quick results, as I did. It took over a year of Plan A for the OP to recede from the scene, and six months to get to a point where I could give my H a letter explaining what it was about this friendship that made me uncomfortable, but it happened. And if you're smart, and act now, you can be lucky too.<P>

Looking for info,<P>I just wanted to give you my view from a slightly different perspective. I have a male friend who is very close - a combination of best friend and brother to me. My friend and I, when we start talking, can spend hours and lose track of time.<P>My husband reacted the same way that you are. He kept making remarks about my friend and insinuating that he was using the "good friend" routine as a front.<P>Well, I simply included my husband in the relationship. I invite my friend into my home and encourage him and my husband to be friends as well. I think my H has relaxed quite a bit when he saw that we just have a number of mutual interests but certainly nothing sexual. I love my husband and would not dream of having an affair. (Wish my H thought the same way!)<P>So, ask your wife to invite her friend home so that you can also meet and talk with him and share their friendship. If she is not willing to do that, then that would be a clear signal in my opinion that all is not quite right with their relationship.<P>At that point, you might want to consider confronting her and discussing your own emotional needs and what it will take to keep your family intact.<P>God bless and good luck,<BR>Heavenly

Welcome <B>looking for info</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/re/mb_nsr/MB_GW.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>I think you already know it's an affair...<BR>EA (emotional affair) or PA (physical affair)...<BR>It's still an affair!<P>Follow the links in my <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/re/mb_nsr/MB_GW.html" TARGET=_blank>Welcome</A> post...<BR>...and do start on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>.<P> <P>Jim

I just want to thank everyone for their response. The good and the bad.<BR>Terry Smith

Yes, it sounds like it's an affair.<P>Do what heavenlybody26 suggested; either:<P>1) Go with them to wherever they go after 10pm and try to spend time with both of them. If you get a negative response from your wife, or if she says okay, and you go and you feel any "weird" feelings, trust those feelings. <P>OR<P>2) Call him up yourself and invite him over for dinner/lunch some day. See how your wife responds. <P>I never thought I had good intuition, but the day before my H had his first "encounter" with the OW, he was acting really, really weird. I didn't figure it out until the next day, which made me go on the computer and that's where I found all the e-mails (which had been going on for a month) and the "plans" to meet the day prior.<P>After that, I trusted every gut feeling I had about him and they have all proven true....even after he moved out, he kept lying to me about it and I had proof that is was happening.<P>Where there's smoke....there's usually fire. And gut feelings are smoke, baby.<P>Please read "Surviving An Affair." It's time to take action.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

looking,<BR>Something smells. Sorry, I know how much it hurts, and how very much you can't imagine something like this could happen. It does, and all the time too. What she is giving him (time) should be yours. Even if it is not sexual in nature, she should be with you not him, or like heaven says you should be with them. Start talking with her, lots. Don't accuse or get all pissy, just talk. Tell her how you feel. It is like asking a kid if he ate an extra cookie. They will never admit it with a mean accusation. Communicate, talk, communicate, talk some more and then do it again.<BR>Elizabeth

Thanks everyone.<BR>I'm puting everones advise together to try them out. Once agian thanks.<BR>Terry

Hello everyone. I tried plan A and got the repsonse "I can have both" Well the heck with that. Tonight I called W on the cellphone and she told me she was at Target and geting ready to leave. Well I was at her car at that time (parked in the outer spaced of the lot, as if it was left there). And as we talked I heared Music in the back ground and "asked are you with Josh?" W told me no, I'm in target. Then I heard "Smith Party of two" play in the back ground. Target dosen't call table reservations out. I hung up in pure anger. Then she has the nerve to call me back and tell me where they are. I go to the restraunt and confront her in the parking lot. Where W tells me not to make a secne. I proceed to go in and shack OM's hand and tell him thanks for ending my marraige. About and hour later my wife shows up and home. And As you all might have guessed I started Plan B. I told her to leave. So the ball is in her hands. If she wants to talk and realize she can't have both. Get this. While starting plan A, W told me she was just finding out who she was. When I told her me and our daughter will not be set aside while she "Finds herself" I got the response "how else am I to do it then"<BR>Well thanks for being there and leting me vent. Take care all.

Dang!!!!!<P>I am sorry for you, really, really sorry.<P>Please stick with us, though. Seems that we should be hearing a lot from you now, and you need to get it all out.<P>Never heard the D-Day story played out so vividly here before--the Huge Lie of Where WS Is AT, ect. Probably the worst part is being lied to.<P>I would have liked to see the look on the guy's face. I myself, could never live with being resonsible for breaking up someone else's marriage. I have often thought, many times, what it would have been like to catch my husband with his girlfriend.<P>This is very un-MB-like, but I am very glad that I did call the girlfriend and speak to her (everyone tells me that I shouldn't have done that--but I don't regret it at all and never will.) She kept saying, "sorry, sorry, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say but sorry." and all the while, I was thinking "Sorry could never be enough. You will never be sorry enough to undo the damage that you have helped cause."<P>Anyways, stick with us. There are some smart folks here who have seen it all and are coping and are better for it. You will survive this--and someday, maybe even look back and laugh about this, no matter what the outcome may be.

PS--I was going to tell you:<P>Don't react in anger (ie-telling her to leave, telling OM that it was the end of the marriage--that just makes him think that it is a free-for-all now, I betcha.)<P>If you make moves, and say things without thinking it out first, then it will cause the end of the marriage, trust me on this.<P>You did not give the plan A long enough--the plan A thing should continue even past the discovery and admittance, until you fully realize that she cannot give up her boyfriend, even with your gestures of love and commitment. Talk about this with her (without fighting! help make this a controlled conversation--) and ask her if she WANTS to leave. If so, then let her. That's when you plan B.<P>If you want this marriage to work, give it a shot. Think things through before you speak and make her move out of the house.<P>I am looking back at the end of the road for me--it is probably too late for me. I reacted in anger--to myself, I was being level-headed--but to him, I was torturing him. I am regreting it now.

Hello folks,<BR>Well OM sent me a nasty gram to my email.(in all caps) He told me he was not the problem and he was going to sue me for slander and something about his reputation. I haven't heard a word for W all day. She hasn't even called to talk to our daughter. All the advise i get is great. I have people that are telling me to just talk it out. Others tell me to go get papers to keep my daughter. I would die if I lost her. What do I do?????????<BR>W's family is in another state she could take my daughter and run.<BR>Time to go. I'll keep everyone posted<BR>Terry

PLEASE PLEASE be careful. Really contemplate what you are doing. Think each step out to the end.<BR>I too gave my H his walking papers the night I found him at a hotel w/OW. But on thinking about our marriage I really wanted to try to work it out. A few days later he was back in our house.<BR>That's what we are doing now--It's been a very long and hellish 3mos. And the emotional affair is still not over. But I'm doing Plan A like crazy! I am where I want to be. <BR>Hang in there friend! Stay with this board--it's the best! <BR>D/2000

The OM is going to sue you for slander? What an idiot. He's having an A with a married woman, a woman who is sneaking around and lying to her H in order to be with him, and he's concerned about his REPUTATION? LOL! ROFL!!!!<P>Get yourself a lawyer, get ready to fight for full custody, collect evidence of the affair, and stay in the house.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Hoddy everyone,<BR>Time for an update. Sat W down on monday for breakfast. Asked W what she wanted out of our relationship. W "ITS OVER, I JUST DON'T LIKE YOU ANYMORE" I said ok then. I went to my lawyers office. He told me to try to get he to uncontest the divocres(keeps it cheap) W would not agree to my demands about me having custody of my daughter. So this morning I payed him his money and tomarrow W will me served and can not take Daughter. This hurts alot. I suprised W today though. I was supose to work 6am-6:30pm my normal sched. But I told her i was going to the lawyers office today. I think when I walked in the house at 1p.m. she freaked. Soon affter that i noticed 5 missed mesagges on my phone. Hold thought. (I went to the cell phone company and got a detailed list of calls, month/calls to Josh/calls to other freinds. July/14/2, Aug./34/3, Sep./28/0. And as i looked at my work sched. most calls where when I was gone to work or between 1-3am for considerble ammount of time. Why would you call someone at 2am when you should be home with your family?) All of a sudden w wants to be the "Loving mom" and she has asked to see our daughter. Of course I let her. Today she called and asked the daycare if she was allowed to even pick her up. Anyway when i got in touch with W she stated this is not what she wants and "can't we kiss and make up" I asked are you going to give up OM? W"I am not doing any thing wrong!" Thats where I asked so I am hurt/mad and lied to "about nothing" Well I am going to just wait and see what she says after she is served tomorrow. Wish me luck<BR>P.S. W tried to take the computer from me last night. I just happend to look in her trunk. W said "I was geting her in troulbe by chating and emailing our friends and a gal she works with.

<BR>Sounds to me like this Josh character has a lot of nerve!!! who does he think he is anyway??? How long do you think this affair has been going on? Women today want it all... They have no reguard for the men in their lives. My wife did the same thing to me before she left. I only wish i had been the one to make the first move. Unfortunately, she made that move and i ended up paying the consequences. She took just about everything when she left. I ended up starting over with nothing. Kudos to you for putting an end to it, and confronting the issue... Most guys would have danced around it afraid of the outcome, I know I did. Sometimes I read about couples on MB that make it after the one being cheated on scares the other into acting right. Other times they can talk it out. I was not one of them. I see you have not updated in quite a while. Drop those of us thinking about you and your situatution a line and let us know how you are doing and where your at now!!!<P>Hope things work out and you can mend the damage..... <BR> Angry