I read the thread on weight. I have been married for 31 years but will probably have the divorce final before the end of this year. I am the one asking for the divorce because I just finally need some closure. He has been with the OW for almost 8 years now and three and a half that I have known. We have been separated for 19 months. Anyway, I was about 35 lbs heavier then when we married but he was too! He always told me that he didn't care and I believed him. I also thought that he had not much interest in sex because it had become very infrequent for probably about four or five years before he took up with HER. At that time, the time he took up with HER, yes I was heavier then when we married but I was also very skinny when we married. Overall, I looked pretty good for my age, I thought. The OW is a yoga instructor and 40 years old. My husband is 58 years old. I am 61 years old. SHE is very beautiful I hate to say. SHE looks much younger then her age but I know that she spends alot of time on beauty treatments and spas and so on. Here is my question. My husband swears over and over again that I am very attractive and HER looks have nothing at all to do with why he chose HER over me or fell in love with her. Do you really believe that is true? If I thought he was just overwhelmed with her beauty and youth that would actually be easier for me to deal with. But he says that this is not true. What does everyone here think? Is it possible that a 58 year old man would fall in love with a beautiful 40 year old woman who looks 30 and have her looks have nothing to do with it?<P>Also I have been having trouble lately with asking him if he has taken her on trips. I know we are about to be divorced and that I really have to stop but somehow it always just comes out and then I wish I had never said it. He says no. I don't believe him. I think he is just saying that to avoid confrontation with me. So I don't feel any better then before I asked. How can I stop asking? I was doing so well but I have really gone back to this and it is not making me feel good at all. I always appreciate all the advice I get here even if I don't respond. I don't spend much time on the computer. I guess it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks!<P>Discarded

Dear discarded,<P>The answer to your question as to it being possible for him to fall in love with her b/c she looks so good to be 40 is, yes it is possible! <P>She makes him look and feel younger, like he did when you two were young.He thinks it's love, but it isn't and he will discover that oh too late. They always want to get back that youthful feeling somehow. Although he is 58 now and should be past the MLC stage, ( some are younger and some wait until later), he is still in that zone, desparately seeking that youthful feeling for himself.<P>He probably thinks that when people see him with her they automatically think " he must really be something to hang onto that". That of course would boost his ego right on over the top. <P>I know you are in a terrible way right now, thinking about how little you can offer to compare to her. But, you don't need to compare yourself to her. It can only bring you down and you are better than her, bar none!!! <P>I have been doing that for the last 18 months and it finally took it's toll on me and I decided to quit with it. I am what I am, I have value and worth to many people, including myself and I don't need some half-cocked, egotistical male figure trying to convince me other wise.<P>I guess, like so many of us, you need to let it go, focus on yourself and those that care for you and let him continue to ride the tide, in the end, he will be the one who has destroyed himself.<P>He will get older and she will not be so happy with that idea at some point, when he can no longer keep up with her, in more ways than one, if you know what I mean!<P>I can only imagine how we would continue to let seemingly simple things, such as their going on trips, concern us or cause us to obsess about it. Try not to, I know it is difficult, but focus on other things and let them be what they truly are in your eyes and in God's eyes.<P>I too have been married 31 years, and I believe the history we have is one of the main reasons that make it so hard to cope with their infidelity. I think we feel like they should feel a stronger commitment after so many years just as we do.<P>Hang in there and try to stay strong. There will be brighter days for you, I'm very sorry your marriage is so troubled.<P>I wish I could do more or say something to change things for you.<P>Sincerely, Cathy

I know what you are saying might be true even if he says it is not. Just a few days ago I was looking at a picture of us taken just a few weeks before I discovered his affair. Do you ever look at those pictures and think how could this be going on and there I was, just dumb and happy? Really even then I wasn't happy because I knew something was wrong. I was in denial of it for a long time, trying to think of what it could be but never allowing myself to think it could be someone else. I remember my daughter even asking me probably a year before I found out about HER if I thought Dad was having an affair. I said no! It just wasn't a possibility! She already had strong suspicions but me, his wife did not. Since this happened I look at those pictures sometimes like they are two strangers to me. Thats how it feels sometimes. I can see looking at the picture that I do look older then him, maybe 10-15 years. He has always been a fitness nut and also is just blessed with youthful looks. Women have always been attracted to him. But because we were married and supposedly in love I guess I just never worried about it much. I never let myself go altogether but it isn't supposed to matter in a lifetime marriage if one ages a little better then the other is it? That's what I always thought and I really believed he felt the same. We were lifetime partners, for better or for worse. I have been through cancer and also just don't seem to carry my age and weight as well as him. I know if you stand me next to HER I probably truthfully look like her mother and maybe her grandmother, I don't know. I know she may get tired of him and I've told him that I hope I live long enough to see it. But he always points out couples we know, some who were friends who have big age differences. And even if she does dump him that will not save my marriage. I can't share him and I can't live in limbo anymore. I've tried plan A and Plan B and everything else for 3 and a half years since I found out. He says he will never divorce me because he doesn't see the need for it. He would just like to live separately but be nice and friendly and still a family and let him continue to be with the OW and be DAD to HER kids. I know my husband and he keeps his friends forever and is very responsible. Never will he abandon those kids now. No he will take care of them and put them through college, send them to fancy camps and private schools. Why would SHE ever leave him? Thats part of the reason I decided to go ahead and file. She has it so good why would she ever give him up? She never will unless she can marry him and then divorce him and take him for alot of money. But SHE says she will never marry for at least 7 years until her kids are raised. Of course he can abandon me but he says he is not and that he will always be there for me, just not as my husband. That is what I can't live with. <P>In a way I am actually looking forward to the divorce. I am at peace that I know I fought as hard and long as I could. I think it will be a corner to turn for me and a new place to start. My life will never ever be what I thought it would be and I don't think I will find something better. But at least I can leave these many years of hell behind.

I'm so, so very sorry. I can certainly identify with your feelings as I'm sure so many of us on this board can also.<P>This is a sad way for us to look to the future without that someone we put so much emphasis on for most of our lives. We thought it was forever!<P>I too, look at the old pictures and see myself as happy, but dumb! The thousands of dollars we spent on our daughters wedding pictures, although she is beautiful in them, the ones with us represent such a lie. I hate to look at those pics. <P>Oddly enough, my daughter also had suspicions long before I did, and she would beg me to follow him and I thought she was NUTS!!!<P>My H has taken better care of himself through the years. I guess he had more opportunities or should I say he took the opportunities to do so b/c he had a live-in babysitter, housekeeper, you know the rest.<P>Our OW is only two years younger than me. She had the ideal setup for making him feel comfortable with her. Her two kids are grown and on their own, she left her H and moved to a place of her own and encouraged my H to do the same. She is employed, is very independent and she looks good. She had her children at a very early age.<P>I am a SAHM, I do not work, we share our home with our 4 children, very busy, chaotic household, not much chance of creating a romantic atmosphere here. I had my last child at age 40!!! which gave me a deflated football belly, that is very difficult to get rid of.<P>My H has come back, he is out of the fog, and has bent over backwards to make ammends for the hurt and pain we all suffered b/c of his selfish behaviour. <P>H's A lasted a brief 18 months as compared to yours of 8 years. I feel good about you making the decision to move on with your life. I asked a friend of mine how she was doing after she and her H divorced and she said she was doing well. She added "it was time"....<P>I think this is your time... you will be better and I don't think you should look at this opportunity as a loss for you. You should focus on doing the things in your life that will give you the greatest pleasure, so when you have a picture made, you will look back at them and think how happy and WISE you were!!!<P>God bless, you are in my prayers, you deserve to be happy and you will!!!<P>Cathy

Discarded,<P>If your H wanted to marry this woman he would have divorced you long ago. I think that he is counting on you and your marriage, to "protect" him from having to marry her!<P>He does NOT love this woman. After 8 years together, IF he did love her, he would have married her already. He would have been pushing for a divorce. He would have divorced you long ago.<P>He may enjoy living in this fantasyland, where he imagines himself young and virile again, the father-figure to these 2 young children. But, he obviously on some deeper, much more important level, does NOT want to commit to this woman or her children.<P>Do you really think that the way he treats her, is the way a man in love treats a woman he loves and respects? I don't.<P>I think he is treating her like the whore she is...he is "paying" her for services rendered. And, that is all he is doing. His attention towards her children, has nothing to do with love either. They are part and parcel of being with her. They are part of the deal, he has no choice except to accept them.<P>And, he probably does enjoy the lifestyle she provides him. He has no responsibilities this time around, and as you've pointed out, she makes no demands on him of any kind.<P>You think this is b/c she is some kind of amazing woman, WRONG. This is b/c she knows, all too well, that she has NO real power with him. She understands the rules of the game.<P> You are so intimidated by her act, that you are now falling victim to her fondest wish...that YOU divorce HIM. Believe me, she will end up being his 2nd wife in a nano-second. <P>All this 7 year stuff, is for her to be able to save face, b/c your H has made it abundantly clear to her, and to everyone else, that he doesn't want to divorce you to marry her. What else can she say?<P>You must do what is right for you, but I cannot imagine how your life gets any better, if you divorce your H, and he marries her. But, that is a personal decision.<P>You have said that your H does not want to divorce you. He may be trying to have his cake and eat it too, but really think about what that REALLY says about what he thinks about the OW. And, how little she really matters to him.<P> He does NOT respect her at all, he makes her accept living like a kept woman. He doesn't want to offer her the respect that being his wife would afford her. It doesn't matter WHAT BS she says to you...why do you believe anything this viper says?<P>SHE is jealous of YOU whether you understand that or not! SHE wants to become you, take over your life. But, your H clearly does NOT want her to be his WIFE. She may be "good" enough to have an affair with, but he clearly doesn't love and respect her enough to marry her.<P>The reason she goes after you tooth and nail, is b/c she has FAILED miserably to get YOUR H to want to divorce you. In 8 long years of trying, she STILL hasn't succeeded...so she is now trying to get in, by the back door...by using YOU to do it for her.<P>And, even though your H, has NOT allowed himself to be suckered in by her, now you're just giving her what she's tried UNSUCCESSFULLY for 8 years to accomplish...the long desired divorce.<P>I have read many of your posts, and it saddens me to see that you are missing the obvious here...your H doesn't want to divorce you. And, no matter what you say about it being about money...it is not. It is about YOU. You are clearly the only woman he wants as his WIFE.<P>It is an honor to be someone's wife...and clearly he doesn't love her enough to want to give her that title. For your H, you are the only wife he wants.<P>I would also suggest, that by reading how she is trying to manipulate you, and convince you of how "wonderful" everything is between them, and how she is the one who is just fine with everything as is...proves there is trouble brewing in paradise.<P>She is escalating the battle, in hopes that you will be humiliated enough, intimidated enough to give her what she has wanted all along...your H's freedom.<P>I think that if you still love your H, do NOT divorce him. He may or may not realize that you are his best protection against her, but SHE knows it.<P>I can just see her for the major manipulator that she is, and she is playing you big time too. Stop believing one word she says to you. She is a liar, she is a cheat. She sees you as a threat.<P>And, I think that no matter how long they've been sneaking around, it's STILL only been 19 months since they've been openly a couple. I think that this relationship is on its last legs. <P>They say it usually takes 2 years for these adulterous affairs to burn themselves out. And, you shouldn't even start the count until he separated from you. Something is not right in that relationship, or HE would be the one insisting and rushing to divorce you.<P>They say that ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. And, it has never been more true than in your situation. Your H's actions do NOT speak of a man in love, and desiring to commit and form a union with this woman and her children.<P>They speak of a man who has gotten in over his head. Yes, he liked the affair, but he did NOT want to be kicked out of his own home, and he still doesn't want a divorce.<P>You're the one who insisted he leave your house. You regret that. And, now are you going to compound this, by now forging ahead with a divorce neither one of you want?<P>Outsmart this tramp...this aerobics instructor WOW! Come on, use your advantages here...<P>I know you need to do what your heart tells you to do. But, reading your posts, all I hear is a very sad woman, who wants her life back.<P>You haven't lost, the game is not over. But, you are so vulnerable now, that you are not thinking straight. You are buying into her whole horse and pony show. Do NOT let HER set the agenda for your life any longer. Take your power back.<P>You have 30+ years of love and marriage and family...HIS family, on your side. She wants your position in this...she knows your power and strength, even if you don't.<P>You are so intimidated, and caught up in the vanity end of this, her youth and supposed beauty. Forget it...it clearly hasn't been enough to make your H want to marry her, has it?<P>She is only good enough to have an affair with, not marry. Would you accept this from a man you'd been involved with for 8 years? If a man treated you this way, would you believe he really loved you?<P>Well, she doesn't either. That is why she uses the bravado all the time. That is why she puts on such a good show for you whenever you let her.<P>Don't let her set the terms of the debate. YOU take charge. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and believe me, people do NOT respect this woman, no matter what they say, or if they socialize with them.<P>If you change the dynamics of this, SHE will be not only terrified...but, confused. And, that is one of the primary skills of all great warriors, always CONFUSE YOUR ENEMY!<P>Good luck whatever you decide to do, but I just wanted you to know, that I see a lot things you are missing b/c you are in so much pain.<P>~skye~<P>P.S.<P>My xH lived with his OW for 4 years, and even got engaged to his OW the last 2. But, when I moved back to our little town, she panicked, and forced his hand and he reluctantly agreed to marry her.<P>BUT, he literally couldn't go through with it. He backed out with cold feet at the last minute. And, the best part is that he told her that the reason he wouldn't marry her, was b/c he had "unresolved issues" with me!<P>He broke off the 4 year long relationship completely about 2 months later. Miracles do happen. Don't assume you know what is in store for you. Fight for what you want...or don't. But, don't fall into her trap.<P>

Discarded:<P>I think Catply and Skye have given you some good insight into what might be going on with your H and OW. Although the median age for a MLC is around 35-40 there is a possibility that this is what is going on with your H.<P>If this is a MLC, then the best thing you can do is to hang on for as long as you can and see if he will come out of it. I think it's interesting that he does not want a divorce. Just wants to play around for a while maybe. <P>I think the best thing you can do in the this situation is to back off, start building a new life for yourself and leave him with the distinct impression that if he does not resolve his MLC in the near future that he will be losing his partner of 30 years. <P>The last thing these WS want is for the S to begin to move on....they want them to remain frozen in time until they decide what they want to do. Take that decision out of his hands by taking control of your life. <P>This doesn't mean that you have to divorce your H...just that you begin the process of moving on...whether that is getting a new job, making new friends, getting involved in new activities, anything that will expose you to new places and people. In the long run you will benefit from this new exposure even if your H never returns.<P>Don't sit around waiting for him...because the longer you sit the longer it will take him to decide what he wants....what's his motivation to decide....he can come back anytime he gets ready.....can't he. Well, maybe he can't....you decide.<P>Let us know what you decide.<P>Faye

Thank you all so much. Skye that is a wonderful story! Do you think that your husband will reconcile now that the OW is out of the picture? I see the sense in what you all are saying. I just have a nagging doubt that my husband just wants to stay married for financial reasons. Right now he just gives me a big check every month and if I need more I tell him. It's never a problem. But his businesses are complicated and dividing it up is not something I think he is interested in doing. Also I think in some strange way he thinks he is not breaking his vow if he stays married to me. I think he wants to be the one to say, well you wanted a divorce! Well I don't want a divorce but I don't want a husband who is never there either! What a choice to make. I have been to two therapists. The first I didn't like but the one I have been seeing for two years now I do. My husband also went to this therapist on his own several times when I first started. I asked him to do this for me and he did. My therapist says that I have to decide about divorce on my own but that I should first feel confident in myself so I can be sure of my decision. But he has also said in roundabout ways that he doesn't think my husband is coming back and I need to accept that. I don't think it is MLC because he went through that about 15 years ago and changed careers. One thing that bothers me alot and hurts so much is the issue of sex. My husband and I never communicated well about it but I always thought he was happy with our love life because he never complained. When we first married we made love about once a week. After about seven years or so it was about once a month. After about fifteen years it was about once every other month and then when he met HER it pretty much stopped. I honestly thought that this was just the normal way marriages go as I never have been one to discuss my sex life with others. So during one of my conversations with OW I find out that they have sex four or five times a week and every day if they can! I couldn't believe this and I asked my husband. Oh for a long time he had me believing that they never had sex, by the way and were just best friends. My husband said it was true and that he actually had not been sexually attracted to me for 25 years but saw no reason to hurt me by telling me! 25 years! He said he just feels no passion for me and that I can't be the type of lover he needs and that it is not my fault. It's just that we are wrong for each other. He also told me that if he had realized this before we married he would never have married me. This made me feel that my whole marriage was a lie and also is one of the reasons I finally decided on divorce. Why would he ever come back to me if he feels no sexual attraction to me? This really crushed my self esteem and is one of the reasons I struggle all the time with comparing myself to HER. I don't know what she has but it seems like he will do anything for HER.<P>I have started new hobbies and taken trips by myself. I tried plan B for three months and nothing came of it. I have also seriously been thinking about buying a house on the coast in another state about 1000 miles away. I have been there to look twice and there are some I am interested in. I shared this info with my husband. Of course I was hoping that he would be upset at the idea of me moving away but he thought it was a great idea! He said it would help me get my own life and start over. I have mentioned more then once and each time get the same response. It is like a stab in the heart that he doesn't care if I move or not. <P>I know I think about the OW too much. I am working on that. It comes and goes. It is not as bad as it was 3 and a half years ago at least.

Discarded, It hurts me to hear you refer to yourself as that. I have been in recovery from an affair for a little over a year now. I was the unfaithful party. I also used the "weight thing" as a reason to try and justify my actions. I have come to the belief that the things we do never have anything to do with anyone else but ourselves. Your husband or soon to be ex-husband's problems are not with you or your weight. They're about his own shortcomings as a man and more importantly as a human being. Until he comes to the place where he realizes that change comes from within he's doomed. It is your HUSBAND'S job to make his needs known to you. From your post it's obvious he did not. You can't read his mind! We can only meet our spouses needs when THEY ARE MADE KNOWN TO US! I know this is so difficult for you but my sense is that you are a wonderful, caring, and loving person. You are not discarded because there is a God who stands with you and for you through it all.

Dear D,<P>You seemed to have resolved some issues and sounds better than before. It is sad to think that money is the matter. If that is why OW gold digger still cannot get him to divorce, then she is not worth that much in his life. She is just willing to play along until someone else comes along? Hence, the bravado attitude from her. I hope you get peace.<p>[This message has been edited by weep (edited October 03, 2000).]

HI Discarded,<P> I'm glad to see you are back posting.....please listen to Skye.....it is so obvious to her and to me what is going on with your H and his OW. Will a D REALLY help you feel better or will it play into her hands? <P> Skye has so clearly stated what alot of us have tried to tell you.... do you really think a man with his money would have a problem Ding you and splitting things up? If he really wanted to be free of you he would hire the best lawyer money could buy.He just is not interested in marrying the OW...plain and simple(and she knows it)LU <P> <P>