Please click on the link before you post your answer.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/001242.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum31/HTML/001242.html</A> <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 02, 2000).]

I don't know if I'm qualified to answer, since STBX is definitely leaving me for the OM, but here goes:<P>IF she came back, IF she ended all contact with OM, then no, it wouldn't help one tiny bit. In my case, OM was just an "exit affair." She even told me that if it weren't him, it would've been some other guy eventually. He's just the first one that came along; a "guilty bystander" if there is such a thing. It has nothing to do with him. Yes, he's a scumbag for going after another man's wife, but I have no desire to have any sort of contact with him whatsoever.

cjack,<P>I hear you, and I'm sorry. <P>But the reason I asked for help is because we run into eachother just about DAILY! My H and OW work in the same building. We live like three blocks away from eachother in the same subdivision! We even run into eachother at the beach, one the road, at the park, at the damn Walmart even!<P>We want to try to find a way to make life a little easier for all of us as well as recover in our marriage.<p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited October 02, 2000).]

Leilana,<P>I don't post very much; but I can emphatically answer NO to your question. <P>To me it would seem empty and shallow to apologize either now or at any time. OM should have considered his actions ahead of time. If OM feels guity now(and I doubt he ever will)... then too bad!<P>FYI my W is currently living in an apartment and I see her 2-3 times aweek, still in Plan A, approaching one year and losing steam, Plan B may be on the horizon. <P>Jack<P>

No, an apology from the OM would not help. <P>Having him disappear altogether would. Tought ot do since he's also the H of my W's "best friend". But, then my W seems to have shifted her attention to some other OM these days.<P>Apologies from my W might help, but only if they have some significance. Otherwise, it's a waste of everyone's time.<P>Frankly, I stopped waiting since it's not coming. I've apologized from contributing to the problems. She's made it all my fault. My position is it's a shared responsibility for the problems. It's also a shared responsibility for repairing/rebuilding. She wants no part of it.<P>--keystone

I am afraid that an apology letter would<BR>make no difference. I can only imagine the<BR>pain that the OW' husband must feel every<BR>time he sees your husband. It would be like a<BR>knife going through his heart everytime there<BR>is visual contact with your husband. I feel<BR>sorry for this man and his wife. Ask your <BR>husband how he would feel if he found that<BR>a next door neighbor had been having a sexual<BR>affair with you over a period of time. Ask your husband what he would feel everytime he<BR>saw that man in your community. I don't <BR>think an apology letter would mean a thing.<BR>Good luck.

I am the betrayed W and I just had to step in on this one.<P>First of all-the OW in my situation happened to be someone I thought was a best friend of mine. When I finally contacted her after my H told me of the affair and she kept sending me e-mails she did apologize. It meant nothing. Absolutely nothing.<P>My hurt was deep, fresh and oh so very painful. At the time I didn't realize it but I stayed in the "numb" mode for 10 whole weeks after D-Day. I only knew of my numb state when the anger mode kicked in loud and clear.<P>The OW also posted on MB over a year ago her apology to me. I didn't get much out of that either.<P>But all along I have known that if I feel anger towards the OW then it be only fair to feel anger towards my H. If I feel hate then I must also feel hate for my H. <P>You see-my H was involved in the affair right along with the OW. They both hurt me just as my H and the OW both hurt the OWH.<P>My H has not only apologized to the OM but he apologizes to me still-daily-after 16 months.<P>I know he is sorry. So I guess I must also know that the OW is sorry.<P>My problem is a bit deeper than the apology end of it all. I do not believe all truth has been shared on the side of the OW and I do believe that she and her H have told some lies to mutual acquaintances when they have been questioned about our sudden NON-friendship.<P>I will tell the truth when asked-to anyone and everyone. I have no reason to lie and will not lie to save face for myself or my H. We will live with what he and she did.<P>I think people need to open their eyes and broaden their horizons a bit when focusing anger at only one side of the affair. It just isn't fair.<P>No-I do not wish to see the OC or to have a thing to do with them but I am wise enough to realize that it takes two to tangle. Both are adults-ages 35 and 32 when it all started I believe.<P>Just my opinion-and a bit of a vent. I still feel the loss of a relationship that I valued highly <P>Woops-I forgot to go to the other URL before posting-LOL I got a bit carried away <P>The OWH did tell me how he had visions of following and killing my H. I have to tell you-that was an awful thing for him to do. It hurt my H not at all-but it added much stress to my already desperate physical well being.<P>I believe the worst I said was that I wanted to go beat the SH*T out of the OW. But in all reality I am not a fighter and I didn't ever attempt to do that. At the moment I was hurting something terrible. <P>Can you and your H file a complaint with the local police? I wish you both a fast healing and better future <BR>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited October 02, 2000).]

I got a half hearted one from om last year when he and x had just moved into an apartment and she was trying to force om on the kids. I was fighting with her and their phone kept going out or she kept hanging up on me, so I kept calling back and he answered one time saying this couldn't continue.<P>I later called back to him and told him I would be happy to meet with him personally to discuss things if he wanted to. He didn't want to and told me he understood that I didn't want him around my kids and that he didn't plan any of this and it just happened.<P>It ment nothing and still doesn't. I think it is even too late for an appology from the x. To this day she has never appologized for anything. I think I will laugh in her face when om dumps her!

Hi, <P>No an apology would not help.<P>Lets just say that I would'nt mind seeing them as Darwin Award winners. What comes around goes around, I can only hope that I see them get what they deserve. <P>Jason<P>------------------<BR>"Thinking is easy, action is difficult; to act in accordance with one's thoughts is the most difficult thing in the world."<BR>- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

I would have to emphatically say <B>HELL NO!!!</B> I spoke to the OM by telephone a couple of weeks after discovery. I was being duped at the time, my wife had given me a false name, which they had agreed to do if they ever got caught, and he used this false identity when I talked to him. He apologized profusely while using this false identity. Once I discovered his true identity, (I work in law in law enforcement and once it became apparent that this person that my wife had told me about didn't exist, she had to come clean), I wrote a letter to his wife informing her of what had been going on, he then called me back, but this time not apologizing, rather upset that I could do something like tell his wife, even threatened me. So an apology was full of SH$$ when it was first stated and it would be full of SH$$ now, as a matter of fact, if I ever saw him on the street, there definitely would be a physical altercation.

Ok, then. I guess there is nothing that either my H or I can do to help alleviate OWH's anger towards my H. My H will just have to deal with knowing that there is someone on this planet that wishes him dead. That we'll just have to deal with OWH's Jerry Springer Show-like behavior whenever he sees us. That OWH thinks it's ok to tell his four and seven year old boys "You see that man? That's who your mommy wants to F***!"<P>I think this behavior and attitude really stinks. My H and I were very much in love before the A. OW and her H hadn't been in love since before their 2nd child was born if she is to be believed. Instead of trying to work on her marriage (but she stays cause his family has money and she "can't" make it on her own) she had an internet affair. As soon as her H found out and stopped it, she went after my H with her sad story (who has always been a shoulder to cry on to everybody), then she systematically went after his body. Then she went after his marriage, asking him to divorce me and marry her.<P>So why am <B>I</B> not murderous towards OW, you guys?! I just want to see everyone heal and find happiness--not "get what they got coming!" Why don't I feel that "knife in my heart" whenever I see OW--and I wave hello instead of throwing eye daggers.<P>I just wanted to know if there was anything that could be said or done to bring some peace into all of our lives again. But, truly, thanks for your responses. <P> I guess peace can only come from the inside. <P>As I lay next to my H last nite after reading your posts a thought came to me, "My God! I'm married to a complete monster!" The pain and reaction this causes is almost equivalent to murder. My H should be in jail--that would at least bring some satisfaction to OW'H. <P>To Bryanp: Remember, you're talking to a betrayed spouse here! How nice that you feel sorry for OW after she went after my H and wanted to leave her kids to marry him and begged my H to make her pregnant.<P>How nice that you feel sorry for her even tho she's still in love with my H and wants him back, meanwhile spending her H's money shopping for new clothes and thousands of dollars on eye surgery so she won't need contacts or glasses. (My God, as I write this it dawned on me that it sounds like she's preparing to leave her H--just squeezing whatever last bill payments out of him while she can!) <P>Just a little reality check I felt I needed to dole out. Please give your sympathies to those that really need it--the ones who are trying to resolve their marriages. If she ever starts to do that, I'll let you know.<P>And of course I asked my H how he would feel if I had an A. I think we all do that in the beginning. But my H was never one for public displays of hatred or violence and always tried to avoid it at all costs. He would never want to hurt anyone. He's a 6'2", 205lb weight lifter and athlete. He knows he could easily kill someone if he loses his temper so he refuses to. So when I asked him, he said he would have to just take it cause in the end he knows he would lose both me and his life in jail if he threatened or touched--and couldn't stop himself--my alleged OM. Now he's a consequence thinker!<P>To unseen2: LOL. If what goes around comes around and you hope OM get what they deserve, does that mean that <B>I'll</B> be having and A behind my H's back next! May I respectfully decline the curse you just put on us?! <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>So why am I not murderous towards OW, you guys?! I just want to see everyone heal and find happiness--not "get what they got coming!" Why don't I feel that "knife in my heart" whenever I see OW--and I wave hello instead of throwing eye daggers.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think that as a woman, you don't take it as hard as a man would, that's not to say that you don't have pain, because I know that you do, but I have seen on this site how woman view things so much differently than men. I have seen and read where it has been easier for women to forgive and move past the affair once they discover that for the H's, it was "simply" sex. Sometimes it becomes emotional for men, but for the most part, it is all about sex. While the men here have to not only deal with the sexual aspect of the affair, we have to deal with the emotional attachment as well, an emotional attachment that placed the OM above us in every aspect. Many of us men that feel murderous towards the OM or feel that knife in our hearts <B>know</B> men, we know that for the most parts while our wives were falling in love with these men, these men were using them, making fools of them, telling them everything that they wanted to hear in order to get into their pants. It's bad enough that our wives fell out of love with us, sought someone els, but to put a man above us that only used them creates huge amounts of anger. <P>Whether the OW and her husband haven't been in love for years doesn't matter, your H is viewed by the OWH as a homewrecker, a man that disrespected his home and family, a man that used his wife. While I don't condone his behavior, especially what he tells his children, I understand the feelings that he has. I also understand that until his W commits to their marriage, your H will be viewed as the one that destroyed his home and there is nothing that you or your husband can do about that. Peace will only come from either the OW committing to her marriage, or the OWH realizing that your H was not the cause of his marriage be broken up, but rather a symptom of what was already a terrible marriage, but even then, my dear Leilana, this man will probably still always hate your husband, but hopefully the behavior will have gotten better.<P><p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited October 03, 2000).]

You're right, F A. It's a testosterone thing. The other thread that asks W's if they'd accept an apology from OW was almost a unanimous yes. <P>I jokingly said it's because women have a higher pain tolerance than men.<P>Or maybe we just have a better "sense of the ridiculous"?<P>What really bugs me is that when OW'H's (like alot of you men on this board) act out this way, OM then get the right to feel sanctimonious. You alleviate their feeling of guilt. And I think it's bad and wrong to lessen that feeling they SHOULD have. If you swear at or stare down your W's ex-OM, he's no longer feeling sorry, he's feeling angry and defensive. Where's the resolution, guys? <P>1) Even the law will back up the OM if a betrayed H tries to get retalliation.<P>2) When you act "childishly", your W's lose respect for you and feel sorry for ex-OM. You lose love units and HE gets a deposit.<P>If you could only rise above it, you know, Mother Theresa-style, you'd win so much more. Respect and pride from your W, maybe yourself, and the OM will appear guilty and evil/bad looking to your W, the community and hopefully to himself.<P>You'd get all the cookies! Why can't you see the big picture? Why do your testicles always have to get in the way? <P>I personally WANT my H to remember the guilt and the pain and the lesson. But when these incidents occur with OW's H, it seems to obliterate his guilt and pain and he feels wronged and righteous--and OW's H look like the moron. <P>And the focus is totally shifted off of our marriage and onto this man and even pity once again for the OW and their sons. <P>Please think it over, guys.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>......You alleviate their feeling of guilt. And I think it's bad and wrong to lessen that feeling they SHOULD have. If you swear at or stare down your W's ex-OM, he's no longer feeling sorry.....</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>BIG Assumption here. You have assumed that the OM feels guilty, that he is sorry. I'm sorry Leilana, but I think that to make that assumption is to once again be "duped" by a wolf in sheep's clothing. The OM in my case apologized under a false identity, I don't think that he was sorry or felt guilty, especially while under this false identity he's telling me that my wife was an opportunity that presented itself, and that I would have done the same thing if I was him, that doesn't sound like someone that is sorry, that sounds like someone who didn't want his own wife to find out.<P><B>When you act "childishly", your W's lose respect for you and feel sorry for ex-OM. You lose love units and HE gets a deposit.</B><P>At this point in time, this is something that is not very important to me. Obviously she didn't have much respect for me before hand. My wife's is not on my list of things to have at this point. <P>Besides, I don't think anyone here is advocating the type of behavior that your Husband's OWH is demonstrating, you asked would it help, and as far as I'm concerned, it would not.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Leilana:<BR><B>What really bugs me is that when OW'H's (like alot of you men on this board) act out this way, OM then get the right to feel sanctimonious. You alleviate their feeling of guilt. And I think it's bad and wrong to lessen that feeling they SHOULD have. If you swear at or stare down your W's ex-OM, he's no longer feeling sorry, he's feeling angry and defensive. Where's the resolution, guys? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd never give him the satisfaction of seeing me angry. I laugh out loud when I remember that every time his phone rings, he has to worry if I'm calling his W to explain what kind of low-life moron her husband is.<P>I once caught my W in a "compromising situation" with another, different OM. It was just me, W, and OM. They were in a small room, nobody was around, and I was between him and the door. I'm 6'2". At that time I weighed about 240 lbs and he was about 5'8", maybe 150 lbs. I could have put him in the ER with one quick shot, or really enjoyed myself and taken a half an hour at it. He knew it, too. He had the classic "deer in the headlights" look on his face. He could barely talk. He was hyperventilating before I even got completely in the door. But I didn't touch him. All I did was make sure I knew his full, real name. I made him get out his ID and show me. Then I told him he was an @$$hole and left. He stayed behind to visit the restroom. Sometimes I regret letting him walk out the door of that nice, quiet little room. I'm glad I didn't have to pay for his dental reconstruction work, though. So there's good and bad.<P>Ok, all jesting aside now: I did the right thing by letting him go without raising a hand against him, and I know that it would only cause me worse problems to get "payback". In all likelyhood, I won't ever do anything at all to any of W's OMen even if I have the opportunity. If I ever meet them again, the worst I'll do is ignore them. But that doesn't stop me from dreaming! <P>And as far as talking to my kids the way you described, Leilana, I do not and will not talk to my children in that way. My W has done some very low things, but my kids deserve much better than that. If he's talking like that to the kids, it's little wonder that his W has so little respect for him.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

Woops :0<p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited October 03, 2000).]

F A I asked if it would help. Ok, I got that it won't. But if not, I asked, what <B>would</B> help?<P>Excuse my BIG assumption. Please know that your OM is very different from my H. H went thru some major depression from the guilt. The day OW's H sent that rage letter to my H my H had to come home from work. He cried and went into a stupor for the rest of the day. His self hate and anger incapacitated him. (Yay, hurray, why didn't just go and hang himself!) <P>I hear can you guys out there!<P>And I understand. I LIKE to see him feel guilty and depressed! At least I KNOW he's a scumbag that has a soul and a conscience and some late-remembered morals. You don't think respect and admiration is important, F A, but without it, what kind of marriage are you going to have. For me I NEED to feel respect and pride once again in my H. Otherwise he'd continue to be revolting to me. How could you love someone you no longer respect?<P>If my H thought the way your OM did, do you think I would even still be here?! <P>Oh, and are we badgering, F A?

I applaud you o2bsane. Apparently you don't let your creative imagination get the best of you. <P>You have my total admiration. Well, you know what I mean. <P>The OW's H in our case is turning out to be a sicko sometimes. Wish he could look like the good guy here. He sure thinks he is.

heartache, of course your message was read. <P>But as you were talking about percentage of blame, I didn't feel like that was a concern of mine so didn't have any response. But I thank you for the prayers.<P>Most days are good--I see OW or OW's H or my H sees OW at work. No problem. <P>But when OW's H sees my H--the whole day is shot to hell.<P>F A and I are friends, heartache. We're not fighting, we're braintwisting! Gotta go talk to Steve now. Check back laterz.

again <p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited October 05, 2000).]