<BR>All went well! He talked more in that hour than he does all day! Our counselor was a man who understood male insecurities. He seemed to agree with most of what my H was saying. <BR>I guess I really have been an overbearing b***h since the last fight, very cold and distant. I didn't realize how much I manipulate him with my coldness. Also, I don't tell him the whole truth all the time. I only tell him what he needs to know. The counselor gave the homework assignment of I am to tell him everything, at work, home, etc, what I think and feel, and H is to trust me without accusations.<BR>I guess I really hurt him my actions 7 years ago, and the counselor feels I let it fester like a boil by lying ever since. I told him I was afraid to tell the truth. I guess I've been a compulsive truth-dodger. <BR>When we each told our version of the fighting, H was a lot different than mine. H said he never threatened me at any time. Maybe I was just hysterical and blew it all up afterward. I get a little hyper when I'm scared. I've been told I have PTSD. I'll try harder for the next 2 weeks. That's when we go back.<BR>When we came home, we spent the next 4 hours in bed. Very sweet! Maybe the sweetness will last the next 7 years!

I'm so glad everything went well. However, are you sure that you weren't remembering things correctly? What about the gun? Did the PTSD cause you to believe that he held a gun to your head when he didn't? It's possible that the events of your childhood are causing you undue fear in your current relationship. In fact I was thinking of mentioning it as a possibility, but thought it would be better to wait and see what happened in counseling. But you should make very sure that you are not just dismissing it because he said so. Think back and try to remember the truth. If he's telling the truth, I couldn't be happier for you. The two of you should be able to work things out in counseling. And being honest with him about everything will help him to learn to trust you.<P>Promise me one thing, though. If he ever DOES threaten you or get violent in the future, that you will seek safety. <P>Whatever happens, you should probably continue the counseling (Either alone or with your H) to resolve the issues you have from your past. They appear to still be bothering you.

Truthseeker-<BR>He did not deny getting the gun out, but he said it wasn't loaded (I never checked). The counselor asked him why he would get a gun, it seemed a little extreme, and H said it was the only wait he could get the truth out of me. H was at his wit's end, and he wanted to do something shocking to scare me and make me realize that he was serious.<BR>H said I scared him more when I dialed 911 (back in 1996 during the 1st fight). H said in this last fight, he wasn't threatening me with the gun. Rather, he was threatening to go find my ex-BF and use it on him. Again, this was to scare me into telling the truth.<BR>I didn't realize I was so hard on him! He had to be driven to that extreme to get me to tell him that I had seen the guy for 4 months at the start of our relationship.<BR>Ironically, our counselor had a similar story about him and his wife. When they started dating, I guess she kept seeing her old BF for 2 months, without his knowledge. He did n't know about it until her old BF blindsided him at a bar. Afterwards, she told him all about it. He said he was mad then, but they laugh about it now. H said he didn't think we'd ever laugh about this. I concur.<BR>I don't really trust my recollection of our fights. Normally, I have a photographic memory, but he really was adamant that my version was overblown. Maybe my fear caused me to see his actions as more threatening than they really were intended.<BR>I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and I'll try to trust him while he tries to trust me.

Loaded or not, if it was me, I would be out of there.<P>You don't just "scare" people into telling the truth with threats (whether to you or the BF).<P>Most of us BS on this board have been lied to over the years, but I know I've never threatened him.<P>You said the counsellor "seemed to agree with most of what your h was saying". That may not be a good thing!<P>Are you really comfortable with this???

Scaring someone like that is a form of emotional abuse. You said the counselor shared a similar story. did he threaten his wife with a gun, too? Does he think that behavior is OK? And you only have your h's word that it wasn't loaded. How do you know if it was or not? How would you know the next time? Do you want to put yourself through a next time? Do you really trust him more than you trust yourself? <P>Think long and hard about the facts. Start keeping a journal that you can refer to later so you won't doubt your own memories if it happens again.<P>Take care of yourself.<BR>

Truthseeker-<BR>I think I don't want to trust my own memory. His version of the fights sounds so much saner. I want to believe that he didn't do the things I seem to remember. Then I don't have to be so scared. Although, I do feel a little silly and ashamed for accusing him of such terrible things.<BR>I know. My ex-H used to play the "it never really happened" game. He had me convinced I was a psycho b***h with a very loose grip on reality/sanity. <BR>Of course, my mother played that, too. One time, when my grandma tried to claw my eyes out, and my mom took me to the Dr because I had a torn cornea, I told the Dr what happened, and he asked my Mom. She told him my dog did it, and he believed her. Dr had to put something on the form, so he wrote "dog stepped in eye." Then I got whooped for making up such outrageous lies when I got home. Reality is what the majority agrees to. Ever read any German history books about WWII? Doesn't read the same as ours. The ability to rewrite history goes to the victor. Anyway, I digress. I want to believe that he really loves me and wouldn't hurt me. <P>I did find it very different in couples counseling than individual therapy. I let H do almost all the talking because I didn't want him to feel uncomfortable or feel ganged up on. When I did talk, he usually corrected me if I was giving my version of an event. I kept my mouth shut mostly. I did kind of feel like the counselor was siding with H. H really made it clear that he didn't feel he could trust me becuase our relationship had revolved around a lie for 7 years, and he always felt that I was lying to him, even about little things, like where did all the gas in the car go when I didn't go anywhwere? Well, the counselor gave us the assignment of trying to trust one another, so second-guessing, until we go back in 2 weeks. Let's see if it works.

Mourning,<P>TS and I are concerned about you!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think I don't want to trust my own memory. His version of the fights sounds so much saner. I want to believe that he didn't do the things I seem to remember. Then I don't have to be so scared. Although, I do feel a little silly and ashamed for accusing him of such terrible things.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do you see what you are saying? You WANT to believe it, that is plain denial unless you really have doubts about your memory. They didn't believe you as a child, so now you expect that noone will believe you?<P>Of course she believed him if he did all the talking and corrected you. I know what it's like to feel weak, been there, still am in many ways.<BR>

Schizzo-<BR>I'm sorry. I know I sound like a flake. My belief is that H doesn't want to believe that he behaved that way, maybe he's ashamed. And I want my sweet H back. I want things to be the way they used to be. If I enable his denial of how bad the fights were, if I pretend they weren't so nasty, maybe I can forgive him. <BR>I want to reiterate that he has never hit me. He has only blown hot air, threats, until now. Maybe this response on my part (drawing boundaries, insisting on counseling) will open his eyes, make him realize that he can't go on acting that way.<BR>I don't want to lose him. I love him like I've never loved anyone before. I don't let people get close to me, but he slipped in under the radar. If I turn him loose, I'll be a hollow shell that used to house a heart.<BR>I'm not afraid of him hurting me anymore. Ive laid out plans to escape if it comes to that, but I don't think it ever will. He's been very warm and giving the Plan A route all the way (even though he's never been to MB). They're right about Plan A. It does make it hard to leave, as long as you don't suspect it's all an act.

I don't konw, Mourning. It sounds like you are still living in fear. You're just channeling it in a different direction. Right now you're more afraid of your H leaving you, abandoning you. And so you will believe what he says instead of your own recollection because that fear is so great. Most victims of abuse fall into that. They really want to believe that their abusers love them and don't want to hurt them. They even believe that it is somehow their own fault and that maybe they deserve it. They believe that abuse and love go hand-in-hand and they only feel loved if the abuse is there. I have seen that pattern with my sister that I told you about and with one of my best friends. It hurt to see them put themselves through it and being made to think that things didn't happen the way they remembered.<P>Please, please, be very sure that you know the truth about what happened. The real truth, not just your H's version. From what I can see, even if he didn't physically hurt you, the threat was there. He held a gun to your head. Loaded or not, that was a threatening gesture. It was designed to intimidate you and IS a form of abuse. And you only have his word for it that it wasn't loaded. Can you think of anything that cold provide you with physical evidence of any of these violent events? Trashing the house in a fit of rage can be quite threatening, too. Someone with that much trouble controlling his temper, who saw nothing wrong with pulling out a gun to threaten you with, may eventually start hurting you physically. Don't give in to what he says simply because you WANT so badly to believe it. find out the truth. Start keeping a journal. find some way to collect physical evidence so that when he says it never happened, you can dig out the evidence and know the truth.<P>When you were in therapy before, did your therapist say that you had PTSD? Is that the opinion of this one counselor after only one visit? Have you thought of going back into individual counseling as well as couples therapy? IF PTSD is still a problem for you, you should probably go back to therapy and work through it some more.

I can't think of ways to collect evidence other than to videotape our fights. The fight 4 years ago was a long time, maybe I am fuzzy on details. I know there are things he said and did that he now denies. This last fight, he didn't point the gun at me. He just went and got it and I just walked away. I distinctly remember saying "Oy! There he goes with the gun again!" while I had my back turned, walking away.<BR>The 4 year old fight, I remember peeing in my pants. I remember wearing only jeans, a bra and no shoes. I said something that caused him to turn away from me (I know I was at gunpoint)and start smashing the door to my closet with his rifle butt. I jumped up from the floor and grabbed the phone, dialed 911. I yelled, "I called the police!" He turned from the door, ripped the phone out of the wall. This cleared my path and I tore out the door, down the stairs. I got to the door, but it was locked, and my hands were shaking so hard I trouble turning the deadbolt. I got the door half open, was going to run out into the snow barefoot with no shirt, but he jumped over the railing of the stairs and slammed it shut before I could get out. I dropped to the floor and groveled in terror. I remember being wet. He had thrown a glass of water in my face during the fight. I pulled an afghan off the sofa and covered my head and torso, curled into fetal position. I lay there and trembled for a long time while he stomped and roared. I don't remember after that. I may have diassociated for a while.<BR>This last fight, he only had the gun for a few seconds. My ridicule made him realize he would make no headway there. That's when he got the bright idea of going after XBF. Looked him up in the phone book and took off. Came back later to pack a bag and move out. I sat on the couch and watched him pace and stomp and chain smoke. It was a lot like when I covered up with the afghan, but I refused to back down or show fear. He eventually broke down in sobs and I distinctly remember him saying "I never thought I would hurt you, but when you said that, I just wanted to kill you."<BR>He says he never said that. I KNOW he did. That's the knowledge that has driven me to this extent. Made the boundaries, the counseling a condition of our continuation.<P>You asked about the PTSD. My shrink 8 years ago gave me that dx. He also thought I had a chemical imbalance. At first, he went with clinical depression, but Prozac shot me to the moon- insomnia, hyperactivity, eventually hallucinations. Then he went with bi-polar disorder. 3 years of Lithium only made me feel numb. Now I take no meds, and I've never felt better. (Do cigarettes count as meds?) <BR>Anyway, I don't experience flashbacks, night terrors or panic attacks anymore -- unless someone is waving a gun in my face or destroying my home around me! Then, I just get freaked out! (That actually sounds normal to me).<BR>I know what I know, and I still do what I do.<BR>Cleopatra, Queen of Denial

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mourning:<BR><B><BR>If I enable his denial of how bad the fights were, if I pretend they weren't so nasty, maybe I can forgive him. <BR>I want to reiterate that he has never hit me. He has only blown hot air, threats, until now. Maybe this response on my part (drawing boundaries, insisting on counseling) will open his eyes, make him realize that he can't go on acting that way.<BR>I don't want to lose him. I love him like I've never loved anyone before. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Let me jump in here again. Okay, so he never hit you. I didn't realize that. But is it true that he held a gun to your head?<P>My STBX's XBF did that to her, too. That was when she got out. He also did the same thing your ex-H did, convincing her that she was "psycho." Six years later, she is still dealing with the emotional baggage that his verbal abuse caused. <P>While your love for him is certainly admirable, it may be blinding you to what sort of person your H really is. From what you've said (guns, road rage, etc), he seems to be basically a violent person all around. My STBX gave her XBF a lot of leeway because she loved him dearly, and he was really sweet in the beginning, and she was just waiting for that sweet guy to come back, too. He never did, and it nearly cost her her life. The fact that you're willing to forget/forgive or revise history in the hope of making it better is pretty scary. Let's make something crystal clear:<P>Pointing a gun at ANYONE, loaded or not, is unacceptable behavior. Pointing a gun at a family member and threatening to use it is INSANE. <P>You mentioned (in another post) that he uses drugs. That's another red flag. Even occasional use of drugs, even marijuana, can permanently change a person's personality . I know this firsthand. I never had a temper myself, but after years of heavy drinking, I found myself flying into fits of rage for no reason whatsoever. I stopped drinking, and the problem faded, but the change is permanent, I still have the temper. That is something to consider.<P>I don't want to seem too harsh, because I know you love this guy with all your heart, but when you say you want to "pretend [the fights] weren't so nasty," I get scared for you. You might want to try another counselor, as well. It is pretty clear that, whether you decide to stay with him or not, your H needs help dealing with anger. Like my therapist says "its nothing that 10 years of therapy won't make a small dent in!"<P>Remember, no matter what his intentions were, pointing a gun at you, loaded or not, is way out of hand!<BR>