I've been in same house with wife for 4 months now, under the "separated" status (not legally), while she has OM and is maintaining that we must separate. Have 2 kids. She is supposed to move in 4 weeks. She tells others that maybe she'll be back in 6 months. She has again suggested maybe staying another 2 months, till after Xmas, while she fixes up her place how she wants it. I don't know the real reason for staying. Could be $$, could be comfort, not wanting to hurt kids, wanting perfect Xmas, whatever. I'm torn between my Plan A efforts, and letting her stay, as compared to just saying she must go because 5 months of this with no effort on her part is enough. I have the feeling that if there is ever to be a reconciliation, it has to get worse for her before that could happen. She has it nice now....I cook, clean, laundry, look after kids, while she runs around.<P>I mentioned something like this before, and some responses were to keep her here. I'm just not sure that is the best thing. She has everything her way now.<P>I have discovered that she figured at the start of OM that they would get married someday, but he isn't offering future now, from what I've been able to determine. I don't know what she has in mind now. She likes to have a massage, backrub, etc., but otherwise no affection between us. Doesn't want anything else. I just find it stagnant in this state. Not admitting anything yet.<P>I don't know what to do next. Only knew of Plan A mid August. Should I let her stay beyond 4 weeks from now, and do more/better Plan A? I haven't asked her to movies or other outings like that yet. Mostly not LBing, gestures of affection, support, etc. I don't receive much back in acknowledgement, but she is in fog bigtime. I know she needs recreational companionship, etc.<P>Tough Love would say tell her to leave, MB principles would say Plan A longer, I think. Any opinions on this? Thanks alot.

Rick (also my W's OM's name),<P>As long as you can stay under the same roof and have the stomach to Plan A, I would do it. Sounds like me with the cooking , laundry, etc... I did that all summer just to have her away every weekend, without saying where she was going or how to get a hold of her in emergency. This left my daughter (4 yr. old) in agony. She wouldn't eat much, constantly asked where Mommy was and when she was coming home, it sucked big time. But I am the strong force now in my D's life because of it. Unfortunately, W and D have now moved out 3 hours away and I effectively see D now only every 2 weeks.<P>Unfortunately, I LB'd about once a week, especially when she would come home with new jewelry and that kind of thing. She's 42 and came home one Sunday with a little ankle bracelet with 2 hearts on it. I asked her if that meant she was going steady (she's with her HS crush) and if she was going to the prom. I can't resist sarcasm when it comes to these fog bound robots, hope you can.<P>Stick it out, if you're not LBing; I couldn't!<P>Jay<P>[This message has been edited by catamount82 (edited October 03, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by catamount82 (edited October 03, 2000).]

Jay,<P>Thanks for your opinion. I remember other posts of yours where you said wife and D were about to move. How are you doing now? It is obviously an awful situation.<P>I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but you made me laugh with your sarcasm regarding "going steady" and "the prom". They certainly are fog bound robots. It is unbelievable how they can walk out on their children like this for months.<P>I must admit I have the odd slip and can't resist saying something sometimes. Usually it involves me knowing where she was and surprising her with my knowledge. She seems to get irritated and goes into denial.<P>Take care.

<BR>You had me laughing with the "going steady" comment. I once came home after work and my W proudly showed me her new hotmail id. I noted that it was similar to OM's and told her it was "cute, like you got matching hats or something." She wasn't amused.<P>Rick, I'd hang on until she leaves. In fact I'd tell her to do whatever she needs to do but I'd also find some interesting ways to occupy your time. Take up a new hobby or something and ask her when she'll be available to tend the kids while you go to your piano lesson or karate practice or play chess with the boys or whatever.<P>It's a bear to get through this, guys. I wish us all well.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

I'm with O2bsane. As the weeks of Plan A slide by it gets harder and harder to expend energy on making your WS happy & comfortable. Buddy it is definitely time for you to stop waiting and start getting out of the house. That will help keep up the Plan A for a while longer. Be careful while out recreating, other women have radar for spotting betrayed husbands. Seems that good fathers that believe in marriage must be in short supply these days. <P>When I really seriously started to question my Plan A stamina (after 10 months), I immediately sat down to write my Plan B letter (on the A/B board). I did this for two reasons. First you won’t know in advance when Plan A will end. Most folks here decide to go to Plan B after some Lbing from the WS. The proverbial straw that broke the camels back. So, it's for the best to have that letter written or well drafted before your attitude on your relationship has a serious case of the F@#$-its. The second reason was that knowing I had the letter ready seemed like a mental crutch. Just having it available to me helped me hang in there to receive a few more major LBs.<P>As for the sarcasm, been there(Dennis Miller would be proud). I have a very sarcastic sense of humor and the holes I bit in my tongue are still bleeding. I do understand how hard it is to shut up, this stuff is funny in a sick kind of way and someone else should enjoy this twisted chuckle. Unfortunately the WS just don't seem to have the sense of humor they used to. That's where we come in. Just about everyone here can appreciate hearing someone describe the noise coming from their fog bank. <BR>

Rick: Isn't amazing how they have no more sense of humor, even if it isn't sarcastic? My wife used to laugh like hell at me. I haven't heard her laugh in months. The woman who used to inhabit her body vaporized months ago. And to be honest, all the beauty of her personality transformed into physical beauty, as she has lost lots of weight, wears slutty looking clothes (I always tried to get her to wear them on Sat. nights and she refused!), and lost her tummy.<P>Tomorrow I start phase I of court appointed psycho/parenting evaluation in my custody cause. As she has already moved out of state with D, even if I get a 50/50, I'll have to quit my job and move to where she lives.<P>Keep it going as long as you can, but the others on this thread (HiInfi,O2bsane, and OffOnOnOff) are right. Do something for yourself. I was unable to do that as I work 12 hours a day and was responsible for D nearly every weekend this summer while my W was out on "that cheatin' side of town."<P>My prayers are with you and all other betrayed.<P>Jay

Jay/Guys:<P>My wife used to laugh at me too, now she can't remember ever laughing. She's done the clothes transformation thing too, lost some weight, wears more perfume, flosses regularly now, buys sexier stuff, listens to different music, and has corny sayings with OM. Got a toe ring, ankle bracelet, and some plastic mood ring that must have been an upgrade from a nice ring I had given her. <P>Thanks everyone for the unanimous advice to do something for myself. I have some ideas in mind, and will get on that. It is harder for me as well, because I have a new job, and I am home with the kids weekends and almost every night. Doesn't leave much time. But if I have something definite planned, I'll be the one going out for a few hours. I just always took the stand that with her out being ridiculous and uncaring, I need to be here for the kids, so rather fill that role than go out. But one thing for myself will be good, and I know will help Plan A too.<P>Thanks.

I have a slightly different, more devious reason for her to hang around for awhile.<P>Custody is determined largely by who has a stronger bond with the children. Stuff like making dinner, baths, homework, and putting them to bed. Let her have the time with OM. And document every time she walk out the door.<P>Now I am not saying that you should stop the plan A. But protect yourself and your children. Show that you are the one there for them and that they would be better off with you.<P>Like the wise man said, "Pray for peace, but plan for war."<P>Just my cynical two cents

Hey Guys!<P>I had to jump in here. . .matching hats. That cracked me up. . .Yes, I'm a WS who has not only recovered her marriage, but also her sense of humor. I also now have about 12 toe rings - though I only have 10 toes, go figure. . .I don't know, I must not have the same "magic" - the OM didn't get me diddley. . .except a nasty sense of remorse with an extra heaping of guilt. I still look back and wonder what in the heck was I thinking. . .<P>Rick37 - I know I've advise you before, but if she wants to stay for another two months -whatever the reason, let her. I know it's tough on you, but I agree with grandpabri, you want to protect yourself in any kind of custody issues - just in case. Take care of yourself. . .Cook, clean and put your children to bed because you want to, don't expect anything in return. The worst that will happen is that you will maintain your self-respect and integrity. . .You will have known that you gave it every chance in the books. . .and your children will love you even more for that and what you are doing now.<P>I agree with some of the others about writing the Plan B Letter. . .Don't send it or anything like that, but draft one up, get your feelings out so that you can be prepared, but continue to Plan A and vent here for support.<P>And you know what? Those d--- toe rings are cute, but they're not really that comfortable in running shoes. Thank God that tatoo on my ankle was only temporary! Temporary insanity. . .But you guys had me laughing at myself, and it's fun to laugh again.

Thanks for the latest installment of help everyone.<P>SKM: You we're going on a business trip I recall. Nice to see you back...how was the trip?<P>I guess my reason for considering her not to stay was to end this sillyness and move on, force a reality check, and also she's moving into a house she (ie. me) bought. So if she doesn't move, we're paying for this place that sits empty. However, must pay anyway, so if I can Plan A longer and have her with me, it is probably better like you say. It does prolong the agony of splitting up and affecting the kids. Her other idea seemed to be that she move alone, and come during the day to look after the kids when she isn't working. I suspect she's worried about custody if she were to do that. The only other thing on my mind was that she still doesn't admit more than friendship, and I believe she has been told there isn't a future with OM, and that they figure they can revert to being friends at some point. I guess it concerns me that she knows this, yet still no move towards me. However, she told him she loves him only 2 or 3 weeks ago, so I suppose is still in big fog even if she has no future with him. Does that make sense to you? My worry is that she comes out of fog and still doesn't want to be together....does everyone have that worry? I probably hope/expect for things to happen too quickly.<P>Another update....I think something is up with her and OM...not alot of contact the last few days. Who knows. Hasn't helped us though. Also, turns out current owners of her house might want to rent it for one month because their new home is closing late.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited October 04, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick37:<BR><B>My worry is that she comes out of fog and still doesn't want to be together....does everyone have that worry?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I used to worry about this. Not anymore. If she comes out of the fog and doesn't want to be with me, we split. That's an easy answer for me. Much much better than staying with someone that doesn't want me, IMO. I've given serious thought to the idea of being alone, and it'll be ok. I like being married, but I really don't want to spend time and effort on repairing a marriage that isn't going to last the rest of my life. The sooner she makes her choice, the happier that makes me - even if she chooses to leave.<P>Funny that you guys mentioned the jewelry and stuff. My W used to be <B>extremely</B> conservative. She only wore earrings once in a great while to special occasions, and then she only wore simple studs with nothing hanging below her earlobe. Now she's got a bazillion different kinds, with all sorts of dangly things hanging down. She used to wear simple, conservative clothes. Now it's designer jeans and clingy tops from Victoria's Secret. No toe rings that I've noticed yet, but she has mentioned piercing her navel. It wouldn't surprise me to see that. And yep to the flossing more regularly thing and the different music things, too. Used to be Amy Grant, now it's Creed and Metallica and -get this- AC/DC. Unbelievable.<P>Slightly Sane<BR><p>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited October 04, 2000).]

O2besane -<P>I can relate to the Victoria's Secret hing, but Creed and Metallica? Whew, glad I didn't go that far. . .<P>I think for men having a mid-life crisis means buying a new toy, feeling younger, whatever. . .it's the same thing for women, we just buy LOTS of stuff - jewelry, silky tops, nighties. . .I don't know. . .The OM never even saw me in any of those "special" outfits I bought - good thing I came to my senses before that happened. At least now, my H can enjoy them, cause I really didn't buy them to impress the OM, I bought them to make me feel good about myself.<P>I never contemplated having my Navel Piercied. . .I got my ears pierced when I was in second grade - a horrible childhood memory that I will not repeat in adulthood. Flossing, I don't know if I increased or decreased, but for a while I was the Tic Tac Queen. Chances are, those subtle changes mean something. . .mid-life crisis, affair, whatever. . .<P>Rick37 - o2besane had some good thoughts. Sometimes, people don't have "happy endings" after all is said and done. Plan A is a plan to help you become a better person, too, so that if things don't work out, you will be able to survive regardless of the outcome. . .try not to worry about "what ifs" at this point. . .I sincerely believe that you will know when you've reached the end - one way or the other. <P>The worst case scenario, and it is the worst case scenario, your wife leaves, you get divorced, you lead separate lives. . .but at least you will not have any regrets. . .You could run out to divorce court now and probably fare pretty well given the circumstances. . .but you're really trying to fight for your marriage. And you should be proud of that and hang on to that as long as YOU can. . .I always hope for happy endings, and that's why I try to encourage people to hang in there, but I think you'll know in your heart if it is working - albeit slowly - or not. This recovery game is not for whimps and I give you a lot of credit for even stepping up to the plate.<P>You have to know that you're a great guy whether or not your marriage survives. But don't throw in the towel yet. . .Do something good for yourself today. . .If it were me, I'd probably get a manicure, but for a guy. . .I don't know what really works - go whack some golf balls or something.