Well, last night I once again found out that OM was present with my wife and kids at a kids birthday party. I'm quite sure he had no other business being there, so when my son told me he was there, I quietly left the table and went in another room so I wouldn't LB. Problem was, when I came back, wife asked why I was in a huff. I said, "That [OM] seems to turn up everywhere you are." She started saying she had no control over where he goes, and that he had his own invitation (single guy, invitation to kids birthday party?????....dah, OK). So I then mentioned the times I know of where she invited him alone with her and kids. Excuses and denial started. She left to meet a friend but we had 15 minute phone chat. Without all the details, I said again, calmly, that I know he was or is her lover, and how much it hurts me, but that I understand that her needs were not met in our marriage, and still love her and am willing to work through this. She didn't know what to say obviously, and just attacked our marriage and kept repeating that she tried and it wasn't right. Then she'd say "don't worry, you'll be rid of me in 3 weeks, I know you want me out". The defensive guilt side I guess coming out, because I always tell her that I want to work on our marriage, and don't want her to leave.<P>Anyway, she said she knows I'm trying to give her more of what she needs, which I suppose is good that she recognizes. Unfortunately not alot of affection though, she won't really allow that. But she just always goes back to what was wrong, never about what could be better. I expect this though, until the fantasy wears off. I probably LBd a bit just with my comments, but obviously it wasn't all bad because this morning she wanted a foot rub, and I made a big breakfast for the family. When she started a denial last night, I told her this was right out of a text book, which she didn't like. She said, "what the heck are you, a psychologist", and mentioned my "stupid psychology books" around the house. I have His Needs/Her Needs by our bed.<P>At the end I told her I am here for her, I know what she is feeling, that I'm not giving up on our marriage, and that I love her. I think she can't understand why I maintain this approach. I know she says things that she thinks will push my buttons, but I keep coming back with I love you's. It probably drives her nuts, because she wants justification for leaving (supposedly in 3 or 4 weeks now).<P>This is part of my Plan A, because I believe that OM isn't offering future, and even if he is, wait till he experiences some of the days I do as a parent, you know, two children that get cranky and want this, want that, need a nap, yell at each other for a toy. I don't think things will be so rosy like they are now, with her out every night, eating in restaurants, boat cruises, parties, and movies, while I'm at home with the kids.<P>Anyway, just felt like babbling today. My internet connection was down for 2 days...so I couldn't access MB. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Jeez Rick,<P>You are a man of steel! I don't think I could do what you're doing, with things so in my face. I think by the book, you're doing things right...except for one thing, I think you're trying to educate her too much.<P>I know I use the fact that I have teenagers as an example a lot on here, but I think of it in terms of them...since H is emotionally about in the same place. I could no more educate my kids on what their minds and bodies are going through than I could my H. These people that we are married to just have to see for themselves. All the books, articles, forums in the world are not going to make a bit of difference to them...until, maybe someday they are open to them.<P>Look at Lostva's husband. He refused counseling, would not read a marriage book to save his life, and he is madly in love again, because he went out there and saw for himself what was waiting for him...not much.<P>I think it's just part of the "letting go" process, which I have found more difficult than any other part of this. Also, I refer to the five stages of grief, the last being acceptance...probably the hardest.<P>Don't mean to lecture you at all here. I have done the same things. I left articles at my husbands apartment door...e mailed him poems...you know the one..."I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep". Did no good whatsoever. He saw it as pushing him and trying to manipulate him, which is exactly what I was doing.<P>You gotta let go Rick, we all do. The more we cling and lecture the more these teen-like adults will rebel. Detach a bit if you can...I know....I really do, how hard it is, but I think it will save our sanity, and who knows, maybe our marriages.<P>allison

Hi Rick37,<P>I agree completely with AZ. You're doing a really good job, but the education thing will only serve to make her mad at you. We're not suppose to try and educate them, their in a non-trainable mode when in an A.<P>I know you love your wife ... so I'm going to be mad at her for you ... A FOOT RUB ... she is so undeserving of it ... I know it made a deposit to her love bank, but I'm so mad at her for not realizing how much you love her. She is a big dummy not to appreciate what a wonderful H and father you are.<P>Keep doing what you're doing Rick, it's hard on you, we all know how hard but I truly believe you're on the right track. <P>Keep coming here and keep us up to date on your progress. <P>BTW, I have big doubts that she's really going to leave, I'm sure she's fantasizing about it, but actually doing it is something else. Both Lora's and my H wanted to leave for a very long time, but when it came to doing it, we pratically had to shove them out the door (the emotional abuse was becoming too much).<P>Leaving is reality and they don't want to mess up their fantasy with reality, they want to continue to live in the fog and leaving lifts the fog a bit.<P>Be well and strong Rick.<P>God Bless you for being such caring Daddy too!<P>Lv,<BR>Jo

Thanks for the comments. I'll try and watch the education part. I figured I wasn't educating much, because I've held back saying how the fantasies usually end, and all that stuff. Figure I have to let nature take its course. I feel more so now that if she leaves, I'll have done what I can to try and save my marriage. So in that respect, Plan A is good and has done ME good.<P>Yesterday, I ordered her flowers that just said I miss you, and had them sent to her work (someone on here suggested that). That is a long story, but one of her co-workers always tells me what a wonderful husband and father I am, and doesn't know we have any problems, while the other co-worker knows OM and accepts what my wife is doing, and I believe my wife has told that school of folks (her new single "friends") that we are amicable and it just didn't work. So it might make one repeat her positive stuff about me, and let the other know that I still love my wife.<P>Might sound crazy, but anyway, they arrived today (funny timing after last nights stuff) and she called to say how beautiful they were.<P>You are right about not deserving the foot rub...but this just makes me wonder sometimes if the reality will set in when/if she leaves...she has not in any way experienced being away from me and the kids, just been in fantasy land.<P>This is hard on my stomach, but I figure if she leaves in 3 or 4 weeks, I'll have done what I can (and can continue), but at least something will come out of it and I won't have to stomach the same stuff because she won't be here. Know what I mean?<P>Thanks again!

Rick,<P>For your stomache probs eat lots of white food; rice, yogurts, white bread .. bland stuff. Really take care of yourself thru this, it's very important. Can't emphasize this enough. An A can really take it's toll on one's health, tho sometimes the illnesses don't completely manifest themselves until after the rollercoaster ride is over and things have calmed down.<P>I like the flowers thing you did, shows your wife's new "single" friends that you are a loving H and you guys aren't just friends like your W is trying to make them believe. Flowers are very romatic!<P>Be well,<BR>Jo<P>

Hi Rick:<P>I've been reading your posts lately and just have to jump in here and say how well I think you are doing in one of the worst situation a S can be in. I know I've been there....having H running in and out to meet with OW and feeling helpless to stop him....feeling like he really didn't care how much he hurt me...and commited not to react negatively. It is hard not to LB during this.<P>You're right about her trying to push your buttons...to get you to react...to get you to the point where you want to call it quits too. Makes the guilt easier on her. Try not to react to anything she does...because if you do, you playing into her hand. And avoid talking to her right now. It doesn't do any good...right now nothing you say will do any good and probably is just a LB...she has to get to the place where she knows all by herself.<P>All the doom and gloom (as to status of marriage) is textbook too. Nothing is irrepairable if both sides are willing to try. She's just not willing right now. <P>I sure you know all this stuff...I'm just reminding you...we all need reminding now and then. <P>Altogether I think you're doing fine. Just remember Jim's credo....time, patience and consistency. You can do it. <P><BR>Faye<P>

az alison, Resilient, buffy:<P>Thanks again for the support. If I didn't have all you people on here for support, it would be like operating in a black hole or something. Really, the ability to get through this has been because of the support here and from friends, but no one understands the situation and my reaction to it better than you people on MB. I'm sure you know what I mean.<P>And guess what? She came home from work, and I got a hug and two kisses, 2nd one on the lips...haven't had one of those for a long time. She said they were the nicest flowers she has ever received. And, the best news, was that one of her co-workers today recommended some book to my wife that helped her through things....I dont' know the title, but my wife said something about His/Hers...maybe it is His Needs/Her Needs...who knows. I have that already. But she went out to buy it tonight (I think), so I'll see what it is. Her co-worker actually had a one night stand affair at one point, when her marriage was not good. Anyway, I'm not getting over joyed here, but it is the first really small signs that I have seen, so I'm happy about that. The fact that she is willing to get a book is a significant thing in my mind. She has always said for every one I have that says it can be restored, she can find one that says it can't! Just the doom and gloom stuff.<P>Thank you again so much.

Great Rick:<P>Wow! Wow! Women love flowers, don't they. <P>And a real kiss! That's very encouraging. <P>I can't get my WS near any book that he might get help from. What does he need help with? <P>I'm with you in seeing some real movement here. Aren't you pleased to get all the effort paying off just a little.<P>Can't wait to see what happens. Keep us informed.<P>Faye

Two thumbs up to you for being able to do what you are doing for your marriage.<BR>My H is acting like your W is right now, although I don't believe his A is still going on. I first confronted him about a month ago. He was so insulted he left and was gone for two days. I've been trying plan A since then but it's not working, two nights ago he left again. I'm posting this here because I'm interested in hearing more from AZ re:"letting go process" and what happened with lostva's husband. My H is calling saying he want's to come back home and I don't know what to tell him. He's still in denial about A. He says he misses the kids and doesn't like living in his van like a gypsy and that's why he wants to come back. He doesn't say he wants to come back to me and our marraige. He says the feelings of love he has for me when he's gone disappear as soon as he sees me. I want him to come home, but I think so much clearer when he's not here. It's a more peacefull environment for my kids when he's gone also. <BR>Sorry to infringe on your posting Rick, I hope you don't mind. Keep up the good work, I don't think I would have half the strength that you do if my H's A were still going on.<P>Should I let him come home?? Or is a little more time out in the cold what he needs??

Anyone that might have read this post, I have to update it. I sent my wife flowers as per previous messages. Guess what? The two co-workers that were there were both told by my wife that she didn't know who sent the flowers! Unbelievable...but then again, I'm not at all surprised. I wondered what she'd do with the card. I think she implies to her new single friends that it just didn't work and we are both OK with that. Not me.<P>I had told a friend I sent them, and one of my wife's co-workers told him the story of my wife not knowing. So my friend straightened our the situation. This one is the friend that knows about OM. The other co-worker is the one that always says I'm such a wonderful husband, as I bring my wife dinners alot, am always with the kids, etc. I'm going to let her know somehow. The foundation of lies must crack sometime.<P>Also, she told me when she came home that day that one of the co-workers recommended a book to her, something about His/Hers. I got a funny feeling that night that this wasn't true. I think she came up with Him/Hers because I have the book. And I don't think anyone recommended anything. I think it was to get out of the house for the evening...she knew I'd be up for her going to the bookstore. Of course she didn't get any book. So, the lies continue. I still like her reaction to me about the flowers, but she's living the double life.<P>Feeling Stupid: Maybe you should put your posting on a new thread so people see it better. Tough one for you...probably he shouldn't come home till he is willing to work on the marriage, but then again, my wife is still at home and completely not working on it. I let her stay for the kids, and so I can Plan A. Maybe you can do that too...post again and see what people think.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited October 11, 2000).]