It sounds like over 10 years you BOTH had difficulty communicating. She built up this list of complaints over 10 years. You ended up in another part of the house from the family, feeling isolated. It sounds like you both need to learn how to communicate needs and listen to what the other is communicating. You seem to be open to this now. She can tell you the types of things she desires romantically, but you can be creative and surprise her with different things. There are lots of books that give great ideas. You could start with the first one you listed. Buy her a ring, kneel down, and ask her for a fresh start in the marriage. Then have a honeymoon and sleep together!

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Hi OOOO -<P>It sounds like you are doing such a great job - absolutely your best. I've been where you are - several times - trying and trying and still H had no interest in "marriage building." Still obsessed with OW. So I just want to encourage you with what kept me going through the most discouraging times.<P>Others here have given you lots of great practical advice for moving forward. Mine is just about perseverance and long-suffering and not giving up and believing that your W will come around eventually. The place you're in right now is so so difficult - but if you can make it through this - you will SHINE! Your marriage will grow into the beautiful relationship that God intends it to be.<P>As for romance - don't let her talk you out of trying! See if you can prove her wrong!<P>And keep doing what you're doing - it does take more time than we'd like or than we sometimes think we can bear - but the day is coming when you will see a little sign of progress, and then you'll start to see more. There may be setbacks along the way - and that's discouraging - but know that it's only temporary.<P>God bless you and your family O.<P>periwinkle

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

OOOO,<P>When you are trying to play the Romance card, you CAN make it seem as genuine as she wants by looking like you thoroughly enjoy the whole thing. When you are unmistakably having fun, and that means a GREAT TIME, being tickled pink with each project/ploy/game/gesture just doing it, she won't be able to discount it or resent the past. Be playful or in great humor at all times.<P>What kinds of gestures does she most appreciate? Gifts? Words of Affirmation? Caresses? Acts of Service? Great Conversation? Special quality time together?

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

I hope this doesn't sound insensitive, but it sounds like you are keeping score and looking for validation for feeling cheated. While you may indeed be justified, your justification isn't going to fix this. I would let these things go, or use them as stepping stones to recovery. We all have "stuff" that our SO doesn't like. Lots of it is petty, but obviously important to them. By making a big deal out of it, it becomes a Big Deal. So fix it, let it go, or move on. <P>You can't fix your situation by seeing what others think about it or trying to see what is "normal". If it is working for you, it's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. However, if it truly *is* a problem (and your wife's feelings indicate that it is- or at least that is what she is fixating on- then see if you can come up with some mutually satisfying way of resolving it. She can't complain if she had a hand in the solution. And if it isn't what other people do, well, other people don't have to live your life.<P>That is my advice.<p>[This message has been edited by popeye (edited October 15, 2000).]

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

You have something going for you, still living together. Don't waste it. She is the one right now that needs to see you are worth trusting again. Show her. why did she fall for you at first? what are your best qualities? What habits should you drop? How well do you know your kids? How well do they know you? work on what you can right now. No better time. Do the work on you and be supportive of her and she might come around. If she doesn't you won't kick yourself for not trying harder. Show her by your actions you love her. She's important, let her feel you think she's worth the effort. The ones that deserve love the least, need it the most. I heard this said about kids but feel it works here too. Lighten up, enjoy life. Boy if that doesn't force you to go against type. Laugh at the absurdity of all this.

"When I proposed to her, I didn’t kneel down"<P>I too didn't properly propose to my wife 7 years ago. How can you fix that? She has mentioned it a couple of times in jest, but I can tell it bothers her. There was really no real proposal, just a decision to get married. I feel bad about that now. A second wedding sounds a little corney and expensive. And a little too little too late. Any suggestions on how to make this up to her? I've thought of writing her a letter acknowledging that I didn't do that very well and that I wish I could make it up to her, but would that not be enough or would that water down any other efforts?<P>

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

We started a tradition last year of a long weekend in the mountains for our anniversary. Maybe I'll rent a tux, sneak her wedding dress and hire someone to renew our vows for us that weekend. That way it's quiet and personal. Not as good as rolling back time, but maybe make some amends. Sounds like fun. It's amazing how this place helps work through some of these tough things we are faced with in our marriages.<P>Good luck to you.<BR>