My wife is back for yet another try, and I wanted to "poll" the group to see what opinions are out there on this subject.<P>We separated in March of this year after knowing of her affair since June '99. We've both gone our own ways and keep in contact because of our children (ages 3 and 5). Now, after all these months she finally realizes that she doesn't want to be with the OP anymore because she doensn't like the way he is around our kids.<P>She wants another try (we've "tried" 3 or 4 times this year, each time with her staying in contact with the OP, the last time was 5 months ago). She claims she is done with him, although they work together and she is not willing to take the necessary steps to not see him anymore. She also said that she wants to know NOW about her and I because "she hasn't hurt him as bad as she hurt me, and she knows they could get back together if we don't work"...that makes ME feel real safe.<P>I'm finally "over" the affair (although the thought of it still stings a bit), and I've finally gotten comfortable with life this way...I'm even dating with some success. The question is, should I throw away all of my progress in order to sign up with her again???????<P>I appreciate your thoughts...

MJINGIT,<P>IMHO, I would have to say NO to another try!!<P>How much hurt do you want. It sounds as if you have moved on with your life, why would you want to return to a bad situation?<P>She has made it clear by her acitons that she refuses to let the OM go. So you must let her go.<P>You have given her several chances to make a go of it; but she has made a mockery of your kindness.<P>So I say keep moving forward with your life and let her go.<P>This of course is all given IMHO <P>------------------<BR>PSALMS 133<BR>AMOS 7:7-8<BR>ECCLESIASTES 12:1-7

hmmmmmmmm<P>You have asked a really tough question, and I am sure you have already anticipated the answer you will probably recieve......That only YOU know the answer!<P>You have to ask yourself some tough questions,<P>1. Do you still love her? I am sure you do, or you would not have even posted.<P>2. Do you feel in your gut that this attempt will have a better chance of success than the previous attempts of reconsiliation?<P>3. Are you strong enough to deal with the inevitable pain and problems that will come with her moving back?<P>4. This is probable the most important one... Can you honestly say that you will not punish her, that you will not play the "trump" card on her, and give it 100%?<P>I wish you the best of luck, personally I would give it another shot, but that is me.<P>Keep us posted!<P>Mike

MJINGIT,<P>Not sure if I could even give my best friend a straight answer to this one, but the first thing I would tell him to consider is....do you feel *strong* enough to go through it again....if it doesn't work?<P>My second thought is, if she has been away for a while, why does she have to know "NOW"?<BR>If she is truly in love with you, shouldn't your happiness also be in her thoughts?<P>Consider the kids!!! And how healthy all of this is/isn't for them.<P>I'm not trying to harsh, but a friend of mine went through something similiar, and he would turn to me because everybody else was "just telling him what they thought he wanted to hear, not what he needed to hear".<BR>I was sympathetic to his feelings, as I am yours....but sometimes we just need someone to open our eyes for us.<P>I hope everything turns out for you, as much as you do. And good luck. Laurah

I am generally a member of the "take every opportunity" club - but I would have to say this: Dr. Harley and every other real marriage therapist agrees there must be no more contact between the WS and the OP in order for an attempt to reconcile to work. <P>My suggestion (and take this from whence it comes) is this: Explain to her that you CAN guarantee that the two of you can rebuild your relationship - but ONLY if she is willing to do what is necessary on her side. Put it in a loving "Plan A" way... Guarantees are built on the strength of the committment from BOTH sides - a manufacturer will guarantee a quality product that works IF YOU USE IT PROPERLY... not if you abuse it. Remaining in contact with the OP while "reconciling" is like using a kitchen hand mixer to make up a batch of concrete... violates the guarantee, and, if it works - well that's a miracle - if it doesn't, that's pretty much to be expected. However, when you use that same kitchen hand mixer to make a cake - it will work beautifully.<P>Excuse my "analogies" - I am working as a tech support person for a largely computer illiterate group of co-workers, and I have been using all kinds of analogies to explain their computer issues to them... Guess it is coming through in all of my communication! <P>Hope this helps some... I wish I had the opportunity to make this decision myself. <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Ouch! What a thing to say! If we don't work out, I can always go back to OM because I wasn't guite as cruel to him as I was with you. That's pathetic! Unless she was willing to have no contact whatsoever which would include finding another job, telling her that if she did go back to OM you would call the proper authorities as to his treatment of these children and her participation investigated, and counseling, I would be very hesitant. Do you think they've had an argument and this is the result? Do you think once the dust has settled she might go back to him? Ages 3 and 5 are too young to fend for themselves and verbally relay what is going on with these two. This sounds bad. Sorry...

Terri-<BR>Great job with your post and I loved the analogies.<P>I agree with Terri- I think that complete no contact with OM would be necessary and if she did that, I probably would try again. Have you two had any counciling? I would probably want that to happen as well.<P>But- what do you want to do?

My vote is "n<p>[This message has been edited by popeye (edited October 16, 2000).]

My vote is "no", not under the circumstances you described. I think it would be prolonging the same bad dream and just be walking in circles unless she made a clean break and gave a 100% re-dedication to life with you and the family. She isn't doing that if she keeps the OM in the background while she sees him every day at work.<P>The way it was described, she would still be having one foot inside and the other outside the door. That is no good for you or the children. <P>I believe in hope. I believe in trying, but you have to look realistically at the odds and see who else is being affected. Since you have already done this 3-4 times and failed, you have to try something different. Having the OP in the picture is a sure recipe for disaster. No, I wouldn't do it under these circumstances. It is better to be alone and on the road to healing and stability (especially the kids) than to be in the middle of a tornado that shows no sign of stopping.<P>Plan B could possibly push her in one direction or the other. Just a suggestion.<P><p>[This message has been edited by popeye (edited October 16, 2000).]

My opinion for what its worth - I agree with Terri. Only you know the answer as to whether or not you feel you can give her another chance, but she would have to agree to no contact while you reconcile. She may even want to consider changing jobs. . .If she is not willing to stop contact with the OM, then I really don't see how you can truly reconcile at this point. If she truly wants a second chance, I would think that no contact with the OM is absolutely necessary.

I would say no too especially in light of her statements. I went through the same things woth my x. We tried reconciliation 3-4 times too. The last one was when the om dumped her the night before they were to go on a cruise.<P>I didn't trust her so I didn't ask her to move back home. I could not get her to change jobs either because this job ment everything to her, although she changed jobs about 3 months after we divorced because as she told me "they were out to get her."<P>She would also not promise me that she wouldn't date other while we were separated. She said nobody would be interested. She did have another male friend hanging around though and once changed plans with the kids to do something with him. I found this out by seeing his van at her place when she could have been with the kids.<P>In the end, they got back together and that ended it for me. She destroyed all trust I had in her. I had forgiven her for the affair, but I couldn't/haven't forgiven her for what she put me through after that.<P>You say you have moved on, how strongly will you be able to committ to her, especially after the history ? Also how would that benefit the kids if she keeps coming and going in/out of their lives.<P>Based on my experiences, I would say no and will say no if my x ever wants to get back.<P>Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 4-5 times shame on me.<P>Bob<p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited October 16, 2000).]

I believe it has been said here before. "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results."<P>MJINGIT, <P>I don't think you are insane, so what is different this time?? Ask her that very question. What is different with her that makes her think that there is a better chance of this working.<P>I agree with everyone else. She is being honest with you, the OM is still in the picture, just in the background right now. She is risking as little as possible from her perspective, but asking you and the children to risk a great deal.<P>I would expect (not demand) that she change jobs and that OM be out of the picture. She needs to come to that realization. Otherwise, I think the idea is "insane".<P>God Bless,<P>JL

You nned to sit down ad make a list of things you will accept for her to return.<P>A few examples;<P>1. Absolutely no contact with the OM. If there is any contact from him, she should IMMEDIATELY tell you.<P>2. Marriage counseling (Steve or Jennifer Harley 1-888-639-1639 would be my choice)<P>3. Both of you (this is not about her, it's about both of you) to be held accountable for 100% of your time.<P>These are the absolute minimums I would accept. You could possibly think of some others, but don't overburden her/you at the beginning.<P>Also, I would recommend her NOT moving in right away. Perhaps get an apartment down the street? If she were to move back in,, it would b very easy for her to get everything in a heartbeat. The idea is to build up some trust.<P>Let her know that if she is serious about returnung toi the marriage, she will agree to these and she is more than welcome to return when she can agree to these. Discuss them with her so they aren't "demands" as such, but absolutely necessary steps to help ensure the best possible chance for your marriage to recover & become greater than it ever was.<BR>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited October 16, 2000).]

Definitely not worth another try. She's already made it clear that she intends to keep OM waiting in the wings for her in case this feeble "try" with your marriage doesn't work out---- so how can it possibly work out?<BR> You & your children have begun to adjust to a new way of life, and you need to put an end to being yo-yo'd around by her comings and goings.<BR> I'm with the others who advise you to only consider yet another reconciliation if the OM is completely out of her life.

As Yoda says "there is no try..."<P>My situation is similar in some respects to yours. My WS (stands for Waffling Spouse) is thinking about coming back, putting the divorce on hold, etc. Here's what I told her:<P>"The ONLY way we can put our marriage back together is if OM is out of the picture completely! I refuse to compete for your affections with another man...in fact, I shouldn't have to! If he's still hanging around, I'll be fighting HIM for your attentions, and that's a fight I can't win. The only way it will work is if we BOTH fight for our marriage TOGETHER, 100 percent. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too. I can't guarantee that everything will work if you come back, but if OM is still around, I can guarantee that it WON'T."<P>Make her do some of the work, here. <BR>

This called having your cake and eating it too.<P>She's only willing to try as long as there is the safety net of the OM waiting around. No deal.<P>I hate to ask this, but are you really in love with her, or inlove with the idea of being in love with her? There's a big diffference.<P>I for one couldn't take the pain again. You must be a very strong person to open that wound again. <P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I forgot the time my x asked me if I would consider joint counseling again as their counselor suggested it. I asked her how we could go to joint counseling with me while she was living with someone else.<P>I said I would have to think about it and wanted to talk to this counselor.<P>She later threw this all in my face saying I said no to joint counseling.<P>I agree with Chris, you must set some guidelines. My x would not agree to any of these. Specifically about changing jobs. She changed jobs about 3 months after the divorce.

You've already had some good replies, and haven't been back to post...<P>I too have a 5 and 3 year old. It is hard to even think about putting them through a divorce. Still, my answer was (as some have recommended) that the inloveness can be restored by DOING the right things, and I only wanted to "save" the marriage if he was willing to DO.<P>It didn't come all at once. A year later, I can say we are both DOING all the right things. But the first thing is to burn the bridge with OP, burn the damn thing. Harley's letter (and I posted the one we sent a bit ago if you care to search) will accomplish that if done right.<P>You go for it again if a great relationship with her is still something you would love to have (it's ok to wonder if it's possible). But no contact and complete honesty are nonnegotiable in my book.

Hey MJINGIT,<P>Are you still out there!?<P>I was just wondering how you and your W are doing. My W is still in contact with the OM and living at home for right now. I was jusr reading some of your postings and was wondering how you were doing. Did you give her that last chance, and did she end contact?<P>God Bless,<BR>Ran