I have mentioned this in a couple of responses to the topics of others, but I really would like some more input from other forum members.<P>Three weeks ago today, I gave my husband a letter that I had previously posted here on the forum. It was NOT a Plan B letter, but a letter that expressed some of the thoughts and sentiments that I have not expressed in the past - and was basically designed to let him know that I am still in love with him and still want our marriage. I believe it was written with honesty and dignity.<P>After months of HIM calling ME regularly, all contact ceased between us after I gave him that letter. I have not contacted him, and, to the best of my knowledge (caller ID), he has made no attempt to contact me.<P>Essentially, I am in Plan B.<P>What I need to decide now is, do I rewrite and deliver/send a REAL Plan B letter? The letter I sent him did not say the "Plan B" specific stuff, but certainly did say the "I will always love you" stuff.<P>So - would it be foolish to send a real Plan B letter at this point? Is it important to make it clear that I will not contact him until and unless he is ready to make a real attempt at reconciliation? Or should I just let it go at this point, having expressed my feelings and made it pretty clear that friendship is not what I want with him unless it is as his wife in all other respects?<P>Thanks in advance.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

A clear Plan B (true no contact... conditions being met... kept as a love letter)... is important...<P>It's something you can fall back on if the WS attempts anything less than a fully honest attempt at recovery.<P>Even I... after signing the divorce paper will send my W a Plan B letter... <P>It draws closure and clearly delineates between Plan A and Plan B.<P> <P>Jim

Thanks, NSR... I am just uncertain about how to write a letter telling him I cannot have contact with him when we very obviously do not have contact at this point. The letter I wrote him is definitely a love letter - but did not say "I cannot talk with you until your affair is over."<P>It is so frustrating...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hi Terri,<P>This is a tough one. I have not yet written a Plan B letter, for several reasons. I like to keep my cards close to my chest, H does not need to know every thing going on in my head. I can't give him that much control.<P>I wonder why your H stopped contacting you after the letter. Can you post a link to it so we can read it again? Something in there freaked him out I guess. <P>I, personally, would hold off in sending another letter right now, but that's me. I am a little paranoid about any contact with my husband...if I hurt, I avoid...maybe your husband feels the same way.<P>Terri, you sound like you are doing well despite your confusion right now. Don't you hate all the confusion? The thing is, we are trying to make sense of a situation that will never make any sense. It's like a math problem that has the wrong answer, but we spend our lives trying to make it come out a certain way. At some point, you just have to realize that there is no way to make sense of it.<P>allison

Confusion, sometimes I view this as a psychological game of chess. Strategy.<P>To get her back, I need to out-manuever her? Play mind games? It is what it is, and it is what I've helped create.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Still Praying,<P>Plan A...<BR>Plan B...<P>neither are "manuevers"... "mind games"...<P>They are about making you better person...<P>...if you approach these Plans as such(games)...<BR>...you're missing the point.<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>I feel that they are both.<P>In making yourself a better person, you are respecting yourself for who you are and what you can accomplish, very healthy. You are also indicating to your spouse that you can carry on in life with or without them, preferably with, but you're fine either way. This makes you more desireable to them, manuever, but also improves your self image.<P>In breaking contact or limiting contact, not only are you giving an ultimatum in some instances, but you are forcing the spouse to think about their actions. Strategy. You are also hoping that they will miss you, wonder what you are doing, and wonder if it's too late and whether or not you've given up. Mind game.<BR><P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Jim,<BR>I did want to add to my last post.<P>First, I do hope that you understand that I am in no way trying to be disrepectful to you, I have been here long enough to realize the vast amount of knowledge and compassion that you bring to this forum, and I hold your suggestions and opinions with the highest regard.<P>But, that being said, this IS, unfortuanately, similar to a game of strategy. Do I call her, do I wait? How do I act when I'm with her, how do I respond to her comments? Exactly how do I phrase my questions and responses? When with her, I must try not to let her notice how much this bothers me, etc., etc., etc. I hate it. I didn't have to do this while dating or while married. To refer to it as a "game" does give it the impression of oversimplification, (that a word?), but it is how I sometimes refer to it, but only internally, never outloud.<P>Game or not, this is the most serious one that I've ever been involved in throughout my life, and I didn't realize that I had been volunteered to play. <P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited October 16, 2000).]

terri:<P>I'd write the letter and hang onto it. Give it to him the next time HE initiates contact. There are aspects of Plan B he needs to know that you haven't told him about yet; that you are protecting your love for him for starters.<P>I certainly wouldn't initiate contact just to tell him you can have no contact. But having the letter *ready* for the inevitable time seems like good planning to me.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Thanks for the responses.<P><B>allison:</B> Yes, I hate the confusion... but, like the math problem you can't solve, there is something about this confusion that makes you keep trying to figure it out anyway! And I do think avoidance is part of the issue right now...<P>My "pre-B" letter is ... well, it is here, somewhere - but I can't seem to get the search to find any of my posts. Grrr. <P><B>Still Praying:</B> People don't like to think about this, but it IS manipulation - just about every single thing we do in human relationships is designed to elicit a desired response - isn't that the definition of manipulation? And what is a game of strategy if not a game of manipulation? No, it's not a "fun" game, but a grim one. And it doesn't matter what you call it if your goals are to restore your marriage and make it better than it ever was before. Strategy, maneuvering, manipulation... One false move and you die ... one misstep ... some days it truly feels that way. And none of us volunteered - we were drafted, I think.<P><B>WhoDat:</B> You give exactly the same advice as another respected friend has given me in private email. And it does sound like the wisest course. I will post my Plan B letter version 2 build 1 ( ) on the forum when I have enough energy to work on it.<P>Thank you all again. If I can get the link to the other letter, I will post it.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

allision (and anyone else who is interested): <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005430.html" TARGET=_blank>Here is the letter I gave him.</A> I may have changed a couple of words, but this is it, essentially. I welcome your thoughts as to why this would have made him stop talking to me so suddenly... keeping in mind that the night I gave it to him, slug showed up at the pizza place while I was still there talking to him - AND that he had an appointment with the lawyer the day after I gave him the letter.<P>One other interesting note that I forgot to mention: notices from the bank that holds the loan on his motorcycle are still addressed here ... I have now received a second notice that his bike payment is overdue. Does he want a divorce so badly that he would risk losing his pride and joy? I wonder...<p>[This message has been edited by terri (edited October 18, 2000).]

Terri,<P>It is munipulation if you are trying to use "cause and effect" efforts to bring about a change in your husband.<P>But, I like to think the plan B letter is just that, a PLAN of coping with the entire frustrating mess, and a way to truthfully communicate what you need to protect your love for your spouse.<P>I don't think it is mind games, if the motive is pure. If the motive is to somehow generating a response or reaction, then it is definitely mind games, and not right.<P>You hang in there.<BR>TNT

Don't know what he is thinking, or why he hasn't kept up the payments on his pride and joy! What do you think? What is the next step? Do you forward his mail to his work, or do you drop it off for him in a concealed envelope at his work and leave it for him? <P>It is entirely up to you, Terri, but I think you should ask yourself if you really wanted to be in plan B, and if so, then I would suggest that you find a 3rd party to communicate to him that he needs to change his address from your home.<P>If you really didn't want to be in plan B, and you just wanted to find out how he felt at this point, then wait it out until something changes.<P>Hugs,<BR>TNT

Got another notice today. He is officially late with 2 payments now. They can repo if they want after 3 months w/o payment.<P>My take on the address thing is this: I am legally still his wife, so it is not mail fraud for me to have it come here. And he knows where he lives, so it is not my responsibility to see to it that his mail gets there. All other mail goes to him at his place - this is his problem.<P>He also knows that he is behind on his payments - so I am not going to do anything with these notices. They are here if he wants to ask about them or get them.<P>Day 23 of no contact ... PMS hitting hard ... serious stress at work ... I think I'm going to make it ... sorta like the Mary Tyler Moore theme song! <P><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Terri,<BR>I am glad to see that you have been so strong with the no contact thing, that is something that I know is awfully hard. <P>Now to the issue at hand... you know what they say about opinions and that everyone has one so here is mine.<P>As far as the notices from the bank, I think that I would forward them to him new address just so that nothing could ever come back on me about it. Also I would let the bank know, perhaps in someway that will help them from coming on you. Perhaps not but it never hurts to try. This is one example of where a "legal separation" would have been benefittal to you.<P>As far as the plan B letter. That is a little harder. I am glad that you posted a link to the letter that you sent as I could not remember really what was said in that letter. But you are right it doesn't stand as a plan B letter technically.<P>So, in that case I think I would have to put my foot down so to speak. He has had plenty of time to think about the letter and to respond but he hasn't. As hard as I know it is for you Terri, I think that the best thing that you could do for yourself is to start preparing yourself for the worst. I am so sorry, I know this hurts you so much.<P>The letter you wrote was really a good letter. I can't think of one thing that you could've said that you didn't say. You have told him how you felt, what you believe and what your heart desires. But you can't make him respond in the way you want him to, that is his choice and his alone.<P>I think that I would send him a plan B letter. I don't think that I would repeat what I have already said again though. I think that I would just say that what was in your letter was how you really felt and still do but that you realize that you can't make him want the same. And that you are assuming that since there has been no response to your letter that he is not interested. And although that saddens you greatly you feel that you must try to accept it. That if he should ever reconsider that you do hope that he will contact you and let you know that but until thin you must try to go on without him and say goodbye.<P>Terri... my heart is must breaking for you, it really is but you can't go on like this. I know that this is very hard and believe me when I say that I was really pulling for you girl but I don't see what else there is to do. But there is one thing that you should never forget.... you did very well and for that you should be proud of yourself.<P>Maybe he needs to think that you are "REALLY SLIPPING OUT OF HIS REACH"! I don't think that he has ever felt that and in my experience that was so important. But regardless, you must make yourself your only concern both physically, emotionally and financially. <P>I had one other thought but I know that you aren't going to like it very much but here it goes anyway. I think that you should take legal steps to protect yourself from any debts that he may have. Considering that he got your name wrong and all of these little errors with the papers {leading me to wonder about possible reluctance on his part} Perhaps, being served with papers himself from you would shock the socks off of him and but a spion on reality of the seriousness of the situation that he hasn't seemed to have had before.<P>I just think that there comes a time when you are going to have to stand up for yourself and say "I won't take this anymore!!" And stop letting him do everything he can to hurt you. Maybe you should take control and say to him, I won't let you do this to me anymore. I can't help but feel that time has come.<P>Perhaps it would bring him around, perhaps it won't but regardless of what he does you need to look out for you and your own well-being. Please don't allow yourself to remain in this situation and then wake up one day and find that you are being held responsible for "HIS" debts due to these stupid laws for marital debt.<P>Praying for you,<BR>Genie

Thank you, Genie, for your suggestions and your concern - I truly appreciate everyone's input and caring.<P>I am doing ok most of the time. The Mets and the Yankees are keeping me occupied this week - New York state sure is hoppin' with this subway series!<P>As far as legally - I swear to you I haven't got a dime to my name at this point to see anyone. And so far, my inquiries haven't found anyone with half a brain that doesn't want money up front. :: I will have to take one day at a time at the moment. Since I have nothing of value, no one can take anything from me, that's one comfort! <P>Need sleep now ... talk to you all again soon!<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hi Terri,<BR>I had missed this thread, probably because I don't feel like I have anything to offer when it comes to Plan B. I recall giving Guard a Plan B letter twice, the second time it was a copy of the first with the first date crossed off . And I still couldn't make it work.<P>My gut feeling about your H is that your other letter stirred up his guilt. He does care for you, and perhaps had thought your relationship was settling into the way it would be...a kind of friendship and you clearly love him and want your marriage. Maybe he was startled? Just a little conjecture on my part, trying to make the pieces fit.<P>Take care, I think you've got great instincts when it comes to your H.

How about them Mets, HUH?!!! <P>Thanks, Lor - you made me laugh, although I suspect that it wasn't funny when you changed the date on the Plan B letter. <P>I think you are right about the guilt - I also think his lawyer may have told him to stop talking to me... or perhaps slug was behind that - who knows? I only know that I miss him lots, but I know that this is the right thing to do. He knows how I feel. He knows what I want. If he doesn't try to contact me at all, then I won't do a Plan B letter at all (I feel it would be interpreted as desperation) - BUT, if he DOES contact me, then he needs a simple Plan B letter.<P>Meantime, I simply wait. Jeeze, I HATE waiting! <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>