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Joined: Aug 2000
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Rick37 Offline OP
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I've had a weird day, so I need to just get it off my chest. Wife plans on moving out, into her new house that we bought after she wanted to separate in June. Downpayment due in 2 weeks, which I have. She needed a "fake" separation agreement today to satisfy the bank on her income, so that went fine. Just a few pages to prove support and signatures.<P>Wife called me, sounding strange (maybe cried before calling?...not sure), and was worried about the agreement. I told her it was not completed and was not the real agreement. She thinks we don't really need one, and is always surprised when I tell her I need one because I'm giving her money for the house, but that I love her and don't want this at all. She doesn't want to take any of our furniture, so will buy her own stuff. Doesn't want to move now till possibly after Xmas. I think she envisions a nice "normal" Xmas as being important. Says that any month that she makes extra money (commission) she'll give me some support payments back. Despite lying for the past 4.5 months and spending too much money, she can't understand why I don't place any faith in these kinds of silly statements, and require an agreement before I give her the money for the house. In case you are wondering, giving the money for house isn't a big deal, because I keep our current house and most stuff in it. So it seems to work out quite fairly when all is considered.<P>During our conversation, she said that "maybe I'll be back 3 weeks after leaving, I just don't know. We could make a profit off my new house if we sell it. And if you want my ugly face out of your house as soon as I get mine, I'll leave". I just can't figure her out....always coming down on herself now...guess some guilt there. And the unsureness, yet no effort on anything to do with us, other than cuddling at night while sleeping, and wanting the odd massage. I think OM has said there isn't a future, but she hangs on hoping, or is addicted.<P>Yesterday, she blurted out "sorry for cuddling you last night"....I said I love it, and she said "no, you told me to stop, in your sleep"....I don't even know if this happened, or if it is more of the "poor me, you don't want me stuff", because whenever I tell her my feelings, she always says that I don't love her.<P>She keeps telling me about the stuff she needs and wants for her new place (mattress, dresser, etc.), and that is something I hate hearing about.<P>Sometimes she is seeming very down and stressed, sometimes seems happier. What a rollercoaster this is. I just keep Plan Aing and hope for the best.<P>I have one question. She has spent too much money the past several months, which bothers me greatly, because I'm just paying bills the whole time, and she hasn't saved much. Now she wants me to cover the closing costs, but says in exchange, she'll not take ANY furniture from our house, I'll take the debts, but keep our nice house and most stuff in it. I'm OK with all this, but I would like to say in a non-LB way, that if she had not taken trips, bought lots of expensive underwear, shampoos, meals in restaurants, etc. over the past 5 months, she'd have more money now, and that I'm bothered by the lack of visibility I have had into her finances, yet she wants me to fork over extra money. She lies about what she spends, so it would have to be a mini-confronting again, thus partly LB, to get my point across. Should I just drop it and get everything in the agreement according to my satisfaction, or mention my feelings as I have just described them? This is probably a complex issue, and it is hard to describe all the details here. Don't want to LB, but feel like saying how I feel.<P>Well, that is enough for now. Thanks for listening.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited October 17, 2000).]

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Hi Rick:<P>You know your wife is saying those derogatory things about herself because she wants you to say them to her...so it can relieve her guilt for what's she doing...and you're being so nice and accomodating...must be blowing her mind. Maybe you should LB just to make her feel better. Just kidding of course. Ha...Ha...<P>Sure, she's not really sure of what she wants and hating you could make it all easier to decide. Don't give her the chance.<BR>You're doing so well. LB about the money's she spent would really be a waste of time...she probably wouldn't acknowledge it and it would just be a LB for you. <P>Things are going to get a lot rougher on her without your support so make it clear to her that when she moves out that is over...if that's not the option...it ought to be. That is her choice...let her live with it.<BR>Just tell you'll be there if she wants to come home.<P>Angels and Prayers ~ Faye<P>

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Hi Rick,<BR>Don't think I have posted to you before but I have some similarities in my situation - except that it has been going on far longer and my wayward H moved out over a year ago (with one 3 month move back in period and lots of "trying but not really trying" as his affair continued).<P>One thing you said jumped out at me - "I just keep plan Aing and hope for the best". I guess I would add the proverbial "but prepare for the worst". My H wanted to buy his own place and that is when I asked for legal separation. I felt I owed it to my kids and we are working through this now with a mediator. It has also been a real wake-up call for him and reality check. I do not think it will bring him back to the marriage. But it protects me and the kids whatever happens. Don't lose sight of your own interests in all this.<P>I can not see a way you can confront her on her spending habits-at least not in the way you describe. Of course you are bugged about all that selfish spending on herself (and OM). It sucks. But it is done and no 20/20 hindsight (especially provided by you-it would reek of disrespectful judgement) is going to change it now. So to your question - yes. Just drop it and get everything you need in the agreement.<P>However, in a mediated situation you can both agree to fully disclose your finances and budgets to each other as part of your good faith effort to deal fairly and in a non-adversarial way with each other. Then you can focus on the more current issues, like who assumes what debt and whether it is really fair for you to pay closing costs, given a broader view of the entire financial situation.<P>Good luck Rick. You are handling everything so well from what I can see. And even when you post a question - I have the feeling you already know the answer! But I can sure relate to that need to vent nonetheless!<P>Take care,<BR>Starpony

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Rick,<P>Your W is as confused as mine!<P>I'd have to agree w/ Buffy, while my W has never said the derogatory statements that your W has, at least not those specific ones!!!!<P>..I still (firmly) believe that GUILT has taken over nearly all aspects of her personality.<P>If you recall she is in an apt. since 7/1/00, BUT has left over 50% of her waredrobe at our home<P><BR>I'm still in Plan A...and I believe the guilt prevents her from coming around and doing things with me!...We ALWAYS had/and continue to have a great time doing things together( concerts, travel, dinner, family events, activities in general) and I believe that she puts up the<BR> <BR>"Why would you want me back walls" <P>out of guilt and depression over her behavior.<P>I could be compleltely mistaken but it sounds like your W is having 2nd, maybe 3rd thought about what she is doing, and is looking for YOU to validate her notion of how screwed up your marriage is. <P>Don't fall for it..stay in Plan A and let her experierince (suffer) what life is like w/o you around at her beck and call<P>If your like me, simply let her know that the door is open to return BUT, it doesn't stay open forever and at some point the distance she desires becomes a barrier to getting back together.<P>There is no way ever, that being apart helps build a relationship, until then...stay in Plan A..it works, the way it is supossed too!<P>YOU become a better person regardless of what the WS does...Good Luck.<P>Jack<P>

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Rick37 -<P>Just wanted to give you an encouraging word or two. . .You are doing a great Plan A - Plan A is designed to make YOU a stronger person, and I honestly don't know how you get through some of this stuff. I really admire your courage and perserverence - you are fighting a good fight, in the cleanest possible way. You love your wife, you don't want her to move out. . .you have to keep telling her that, maybe convince her not to move until she HAS saved up enough money to survive on her own.<P>I understand you wanting to help her out - and maybe that helps you in the end, financially, but I just think its incredible that she expects you to support her with closing costs, etc. . .when you don't even want her to move out.<P>I just thank God everyday that I never got to the point where your wife is - because I really don't understand it either. I think the full impact of her decision to move out is finally hitting and she's starting to question why she is doing this, and how she's going to make it without you.<P>In your post, I see some glimmers of either guilt or remorse on your wife's part. I think she's still confused, but she wants to wait until Christmas to move - why? To have a "normal" Christmas? I think she realizes what she is doing by moving out now, and it's shaken her up.<P>Keep Plan Aing your butt off, but protect yourself, too. If you cannot afford to do something, be honest with her. If her past spending habits bother you, I don't think you can bring that up now in an non-lbing way, but you can put it to her like "why do you wait to move until you have more money saved." As Starpony said - keeping hoping for the best, but prepare for the worst.<P>I guess I just wanted to say hang in there. I know this is a very hard time - not only for your wife - but for you. I think she's worried about the agreement because, in some subconcious or concious level, it feels like her fate is being sealed for her. Just reassure her that you want her to stay, that you can try to work things out, that you still love her and care about her, and that you will miss her if she moves.<P>She isn't really thinking clearly right now, so you need to be the rational one. Be strong, hang tough. Sometimes, you can say what you feel in a non-lbing way. . .so try to think about today and tomorrow, not yesterday. . .phrase your concerns maybe not like "well, if you didn't buy this or that, you would have the money." instead say something like, "I'm worried about you. I just want to be sure that you really want to move out and will be able to make it financially. If you want to wait to move out until you have saved more money, I could understand that." Just think about it. . .maybe you can say how you feel without "busting" her for her past actions.<P>

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Hi.<P>I haven't been around for a while, but I've got a strange little point of view to share with you.<P>Don't talk to her about her spending. That's her deal. And you can't without lovebusting.<P>You know, when Robert left, he left most of his personal things here, including clothes. He stopped by every now and then to pick up a few things. So very many people advised me to pack his stuff up and make him come get it.<P>Now I have some hindsight...9 months in recovery after more than 6 month separation (when he was living with PT, btw). Though he was deep in the fog, we both realize now that his not taking his things was the "good" side of him that really didn't want to leave. Maybe, just maybe, a part of your wife is NOT saving money, putting off the move date because she KNOWS she shouldn't leave. She may just be sabotaging her own efforts.<P>I'd Plan A and let her postpone until the cows come home. Let the fog lift....it will, you know, one day, it will. Don't hinder her, but don't make it easy for her either. Love her.<P>the other stuff is guilt and justification. Problem is, b/c of the fog, she really does believe some of it. I know Robert did....it wasn't fake, mental sympton of the problem.<P>Hang in there...you're doing great.<P>Oh, a footnote...for everyone....spoke with an old friend yesterday from another state. She and her H divorced years ago....yup, the "fog".....They've been back together now for several months and are talking about remarriage and buying a new home....a new start. She thought he would never change...he thought he would never love her again. Hmmmmmm.......<P>Lori<P>

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Lor, you always have a great pick me up story. I needed that coz I'm feeling down. My situation keeps getting "bigger and bigger" if you know what I mean..but the fog is still there.<P>Rick, I have to agree, you are doing a great job. My H was like that in Feb. when he wanted to move out...and was happy and sad in the beginning.... At Easter, he even stayed here for the weekend when I was away with the kids, and he would call us and be so sad.<P>Of course, that was in big denial time. I think he even wasn't believeing that he was sleeping with OP. I let my H know all the same things re: loving him etc. Of course my situation took a turn for the worse (preg) and he still isn't dealing with it.<P>However, I really know the best thing for me is to let my H figure it all out. I am not the enemy. the enemy resides inside of him. It took me awhile to get to that point..but it is a much better place for me.

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TT, honey, you are absolutely amazing. I know how big your story keeps getting and how wonderfully you're handling things.<P>I am in awe.......<P>Ya think he realizes he's gonna HAVE to deal with her pregnancy eventually????? At least the results of it?<P>Sometimes, you just wanna........<P>Lori

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Dear Rick<P>I think your wife's behaviour with regards to her spending money is a reflection of her lack of self control at this delusional point in her life. The money she spent are for herself and it is a "ME" stage of her life. She is trying to suss you out - selling the house 'at a higher price' (reflects her 'fear' that you may not want her back if she just want to sell off and come running back) and moving back, etc.<P>I am very sorry that you are in limbo but you are so determined and wonderful in keeping your love there. As I have ventured before, the OM is not reliable and she probably realises her mistake - she is not even spending Christmas with him! Who knows, she may not move at all; she is afraid you may not want her back. That is why she is saying stuff like 'sorry for cuddling', etc.. She will eventually figure out that if she wants to stay, she can ask to do so.<P>Have you been to marital counselling or see a church pastor trained in that area before? That could help her open up and reveal what she really wants to do with her life and marriage. Issues of trust, rebuilding, communications, finance management, and acceptable boundaries of behaviour can be addressed at the sessions.<P>Pray for a breakthrough.<P>God Bless You<BR>weep

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Rick37 Offline OP
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Thank you everyone for responding and giving me the encouraging words that so often help me to continue my efforts.<P>Just to answer a question, no, we have never been to couselling. When she suddenly said she wanted to separate (June), she said there was no hope and counselling would not help at all. I went to see a counsellor to ask about how to tell the kids, and she said to me, "where is your wife". When I told her my wife's opinion, she said that in almost all cases, when one spouse won't even go once, there is someone else or someone waiting in the wings. I said no way, but now I know better that there was the OM.<P>buffy, Starpony, Downbound Train, SKM, lostva, tootrusting, weep,... when anyone wonders how anyone such as myself can Plan A and not LB, it is because of you and everyone else here.<P>Sometimes I think...I don't want this to go on for a year, her living her but no relationship, really. But I know that the longer I keep her here, and Plan A, the better off I'll be. At least I hope so. In any event, I've noticed lately that the feeling I have of doing the best I can is there inside me, and is proof that Plan A does help. I know that I'll be OK, regardless. My concern is for the kids, because that is hard to swallow, how they'll be affected. But I'm doing what I can, and that is all I can do.<P>Take care.


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