Res<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]

Maybe that is what it takes. Maybe being confronted with eternity with the Screaming Banshee is the wake-up call. He feels guilty, he has Grandma Porn Star pressuring him, he doesn't know what to do. Obviously he's not willing to let go of you completely, since he's saying "divorce isn't final" and he's holding off on filing. <P>I hope it gets better for you. It's not over until it's over. And from what your H is saying, it's not even over then. I still believe that Banshee is digging her own grave, slowly, but surely. She'll keep nagging, and showing her ugly true colors. The light will come back on for your H, and he'll come back to you and tell you how sorry he is and how he wants to come home. To start fresh, you two can renew your vows on a cruise. You two can move far, far away from this dreary state (San Diego's nice this time of year). He can fly his boys down by themselves on school breaks, no more OW, and the two of you will live happily ever after. Maybe not quite that scenario, but I sincerely hope it is along those lines. You love him so much, and you deserve no less. Either way, you are a strong person, and you'll keep on keepin' on. But I truly hope that you get what you want.<P>Best wishes,<BR>CB

Hi Jo:<P>I hope the reason you're not posting tonight is because you've finally getting the sleep you need....we'll worry a lot less about you if we know you're taking care of yourself.<P>I've read alot of the posts and replies and I don't know about you but my head is spinning. <P>There doesn't appear to be a real concensus here about what you should do...although a lot of it makes sense on both sides. <P>This points up the fact that as good as the principles are at MB, each individual situation has its own unique solution or no solution at all. Can being too close to the situation also make us blind to the reality of what is best for us? I'm afraid so.<BR> <BR>As for D being final...no, some people may not see it as the end...things can always be undone...but a D says to me:<P>"We have no further life together; I will not remain friends with you; I will see you only when we have to; Our lives will parted forever; By making this final step you sever all ties to me; It is ended; It is over." <P>It will probably be my choice and in time I may have to make it. But when the time comes I think I'll be ready. I hope the same is true for you.<P>Angels and Prayers ~ Faye<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited October 19, 2000).]

Jo,<P>I, too, believe that divorce is final. While I have learned to never say never, I have not gone through all of this to end in divorce and THEN try to make it work by re-marrying him.<P>This, to me, further clarifies your H's confusion. To relieve the pressure from the OW, he HAS to divorce you. YET, he still does not see divorce as final. So what happens, you then become the OW after the divorce???? <P>He is torn. He wants to know that you will be there for him, no matter what. It sounds like you are willing to, BUT if you feel that divorce is final, then it is and he should know exactly what that means from your standpoint.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened<P><p>[This message has been edited by Enlightened (edited October 20, 2000).]

It sounds like you two really need to talk. No distractions. No time limits. No escapes. There is just so much that is unsaid here.<P>What does he mean, "Divorce is not final."? Is that like "Marriage vows are not final"? I would be really afraid of this. On one hand, if he means that he really sees some sort of future with you, then he needs to commit to that and stop stringing you along. If he means that he wants to keep playing this game forever, I think you should put a stop to it. <P>Way back when, I was determined to get a divorce, not because I wanted one but because I felt the betraying swine deserved one! I felt he needed to win me back and no amount of crawling was going to sway me from my revenge. I wanted him to propose all over again and have everything be real the second time. But you know what I've learned? Divorce is a painful and heart wrenching process that should not be entered into with anything but firm resolve for ending the marriage. Once you go there, you can't go back. that stays there forever. <P>Jo, please don't do this unless you and he are sure that this is what you truly want or need. I know it is hard when the WS is still seeing someone else and can't make up his mind, but this is just not fair to you.

Jo, I've been thinking about your situation, and I'm probably insane for saying this, but again, I see this maneuver of his as 'control'.. Don't bite.<P>Don't argue, or try to get him to talk. It probably won't work. I see him very much like my H. <P>I think your plan B has had an effect on him. That's probalby why he called the counselor and now is talking about "moving on".... Didn't you say in one of your posts that he isn't really mentioning D. Did you bring it up?? (the dreaded D word?) If so, it seems to me, that it's just that "thing" he is using to keep you hooked.<P>I think if you can, stop fretting about it. Let him fret. let the OW fret at him. If he is going to move on...and feels like a D is the thing to do, just do as Lor did...say it's not want you want, calmly, but tell him you will not stop him. Don't get into it with him. If you're talking to him about it, try to keep your emotions out of it. Very difficult I know. You almost have to put a wall around yourself too.<P>Let him do the work. Don't make it easy on him. don't plead or beg.. Just accept. <P>I don;t know, maybe I am insane. I'm dealing with a confused man also who has me the "nanny" to care for the kids, who can drop by whenever he wants, and he still has "work world" with the pregnant OP... Two split selves, two lives... I don't even ask anymore, because I don't want to be lied to anymore... I just found my own boundaries and am going to keep on "keeping on"... I must be insane eh???

Hey Jo, <P>Haven't posted much of late, because this is just all so overwhelming, don't you think?<P>I want you to know that I am thinking about you a lot. Even got myself a special candle and give myself some "meditation" time every evening...you and others here are a special part of that time I give myself.<P>Jo, this is harder that D-Day I think...but I don't know why. Is is because it's the beginning of the "letting go" process that we must go through? Is it because we finally have to give up that hope that we cling to? Do we have to do these things to move on with our lives and become happy?<P>So many questions for you, when you don't need them. Don't feel like you have to answer them, just know that I am praying for you.<P>Does divorce have to be the end? No, I don't think so. My parents married each other twice, sad part is they divorced each other twice too...but till the end they had one of those can't-live-with, can't-live-without kind of relationships. Though they were divorced when my father died, my mother felt as though she lost her husband...again.<P>I am fully expecting my situation to end in divorce. I think he'll push it to that end. Do I think he'll be out of my life forever, no...and not just because of the kids. He'll always care about me.<P>Lostva gave you good advice Jo, advice that I'll be following also when H asks for D. Her husband did not know what to do with her when she said she'd always be his wife. I will follow her advice, may not make a difference, but it's the best I've seen.<P>Don't let this define who you are Jo. I know, it makes me feel kinda "dumped", like people look at me as a loser. This is hard to admit, and I mean no disrespect to the divorced here...just my own lousy self image talking. I'm working hard to overcome that image of myself. I WILL have dignity when all is said and done...and you will too Jo. We'll be able to look in the mirror and say we did all we could honey.<P>I think I know how much you hurt right now. I wish I had words of advice for you. I don't know about Plan B...just have not figured out if it's right for me. I have not laid eyes on my H for almost three weeks now, and it's driving me nuts. Please consider a lot before you send a Plan B letter. What does your therapist say?<P>Well, as usual I'm going on and on. Just remember that you are in my thoughts and prayers daily, and I look forward to January when I can give you a real hug.<P>Please keep posting, you sound a little stronger with each one.<P>allison

Ugh. These betrayers are so mindless sometimes! If you dont' want a divorce then hold off, stall, whatever is right for you. He may not see it as final so what that means to me is "We get divorced, I still flip flop between the 2 of you at my whim but now I can say - Hey, I'm not married, I'm free to do whatever I want with no guilt!" My sister's exH dumped her for OW, told her he absolutely wanted a divorce, didn't love her blah blah. Even at teh court date she said "It's still not too late if you want to try again but after today, that's it" Nope, he was sure. He was blissfully happy with his new life. 2 months after the divorce he started calling, saying he missed her, maybe they should try again. She told him the divorce was final, it was over. He said "The divorce doesn't mean anything, it's just a piece of paper" Just like the marriage i guess. He pursued her for 2 years and after awhile started telling her how "cruel and heartless" she was for not giving him another chance. Barf.

Sheba seems to be enjoying a new relationship with ehr H now that they are divorced. I think maybe in order to 'start fresh' and do things right, some people want to go ahead and have the D. It puts closure on the past mistakes, helps them to put it all behind them. And then get back together with a new marriage. <P>I personally think the D should be avoided if there is hope of getting back together, but I can understand the closure idea.

Res<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 26, 2000).]