Lighthouse...I sense confidence in your last reply. I hope this is it for you in your journey. The road ahead will still be rocky and full of potholes regarding the OW, and I'm not sure it EVER really goes away but I wish you well on this attempt we all know what it is going to take. I suggest you do as Weep said to me...If you havent done so already...and Weep thank you for your help, I did exactly as you said, I take one day at a time. It is a daily struggle fighting my heart and emotions. I keep my faith, but I feel like I let God down as well as myself when and IF I make contact, weakness on both our parts have made us give in to making contact...I am trying. Again I know I have to stop...I have confidence I can, I do see the light sometimes, my wife is a wonderful person, freind, wife(she tolerates more than she should)Mother and lover. I am lucky to have a person like her. Maybe thats my problem...I take her for granted. I need to get those books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "The Myth of Greener Grass" I'll order them today. Thanks again everybody.<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

Hi everybody...I feel like I am in a spiral downward. I feel like I am going down a similar road that lead to our drifting apart again...I dont know maybe I am just having a hard time with life. One of the problems that lead to the EA/PA was we were both caught up in the business of running and raising a family. Well I feel like I am right back there. I feel like my life is just working, paying bills and raising teenagers. I am tired of not having the time or money for my wife and I. When the hell does it get easier?????? This really sucks! I know, typical MLC, right! Well it doesnt make it any easier. Maybe that is all it suppose to be? I dont know. This isnt a very good time in my life...when the hell does it get better? I'm tired of fighting my emotions for the OW...I'm tired of "withdrawl" from the OW, I'm tired...I'm tired.<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

Good morning Dumone...<P>The thoughts you describe...are the exact feelings that so many others....like you...have expressed over and over and over on these boards. These are 'classic-textbook' symptoms. Yet, I know....that even if a million others are going through this or have already, it really doesn't ease the pain and struggle that you feel right now.<P>It is very real...and persuasive...what your emotions and mind is screaming at you. It is as if there is an internal war between your heart...and your mind. "Logic and reason" barely put a 'dent' upon your heart that is demanding to be satisfied by the warmth and euphoria that you experience with this other woman.<P>Sure...you can come here...read the warnings of others...read the gut-wrenching pain that many others express over being betrayed by their spouses...but it doesn's seem to last long. I know. <P>All I have discovered is that somehow...somewhere....you have to reach down within...and cry out to God....and believe that He will rescue you. <P>I went to a state fair this weekend...and my youngest daughter talked me into going on a ride...that I should have known better. It wasn't a roller coaster, but it sure had me turning in all kinds of directions and upside down...and I thought I would just pass out before it was over. I was sick for hours afterwards. These emotional "up and down' rides will take a toll on you. Just hang on....the ride has to end sometime. <p>[This message has been edited by lighthouse (edited October 24, 2000).]

Thanks Lighthouse...I know you can identify...this is wearing me down. I consider myself to be a strong person, but I dont know how long I can fight this. I pray everyday...I question myself everyday, is what I am doing right? fair? to me? To my wife? WILL the love return for her? Can it?Is it fair that I put her thru this and stay when maybe she would be better off. When does the word "Happy" come into play? Part of me feels like a Martyr, and hippocrit as far as staying is concerned, and life is just plain wearing me out as far as what and where my life is now, all this is starting to take a toll. Its been over 6 months since I first had contact with the OW...I'm sorry to repeat myself but it is the hardest battle I have had to fight. <p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

There is no denying that if you stay with your family, there will be a rough painful road ahead to recovery. <P>If you went with your ex girlfriend, the short term at least would be one big endomorphine party to the two of you, with two devasted spouses and 5 children left to pick up the pieces. Make no mistake, after the initial rush of pleasure, you would have a long road of heartache.<P>As you aptly acknowledged (you are far ahead of most WS's here) your relationship with your ex would probably be filled with more problems than your current marriage. You already picked up on the down side of your ex either willing to uproot her children and rip them from their dad, or dump them to be with you. Guess what her top priority is. If you guess you, you'd be guessing wrong. It is her and her feelings. If she would willing trash her family for the sake of her current feelings, exactly how good would she be at problem solving in the future?<P>Can you imagine your wife dumping your kids?Bet you can't. Hmmm. <P>As difficult as the short term road ahead will be, at least it can have a happy ending for your family...and for you.<P>As caught up as you are in your current feelings, you don't see yourself as a man who leaves his family. A man that leaves, in your own mind, is not a man of intregity. You lived it yourself and it is not what you want for your family.<P>You see that the relationship with your ex would be flawed. You see yourself as a man who doesn't leave. Although you see problems in your marriage, you basically see your wife as a woman deserving of love and commitment. You know you are in a MLC. You know that raising teens (I have a teen and two on the way) may be the most difficult part of your family life. In a few years, the dynamics of your family will change and you will be facing an empty nest, which will offer some relief and a chance to connect with your wife uninterupted again. In the timeline of life, you can get to a better place in a relatively short period of time. Don't jump ship.<P>And since you already decided to stay, STOP QUESTIONING YOURSELF!!!!! I think part of your mental exhaustion is from letting your mind go over and over the same questions that you already have made a decision on. Your decision is sound. It will take some conditioning, but don't let your mind spin like a back tire stuck in the snow. It won't get you down the road.<P>Say you just bought a new car. If you got in it every day and started thinking about all the other choices you could have made and kept questioning your choice, how much would you enjoy that new car? Sometimes it is just better to just get in and go, rather than dwell on stuff that just won't get us to our destination.<P>If you could just stop yourself when the questions flood your mind, remind yourself that the decision is made and is for the best, and picture some milestone in the future, like sitting together at you children's wedding, or dancing on your 25th anniversary...anything meaningful to you, it may help your mental exhaustion, at least a bit.<P>If you aim for happy, you will spend your life from relationship to relationship pursuing immediate feelings. If you aim for the inner peace of a life well lived, you will find true happiness as the prize.

Dear Dumone,<P>It really is a fight with a lot of men when it comes to temptation, be it lust, substance abuse or others. You cannot, on your own strength, fight these. My WS thought he could through his own intellect, charm, persuasive power, money, etc.. He realises how wrong and foolish he was. <P>Now he has been coached by godly men who face as much temptation as any men, to handle situations with God's help. Invite God into your heart, your mind, every place, every nook in the house, even when you are in a hotel room, every conversation. When you are tempted, begin by praying "Lord Jesus, I invite you into my conversation, my thoughts, keep them safe and honourable to you. Lord, deliver me from this temptation with (name of OW) and help me to feel great love and passion for my own lovely wife (name of wife). I commit my lustful desires for other women other than my wife in your hands. Please forgive me and deliver me from adultery and all evil. Let Satan be bind in my life, in my marriage. Lord, please put up hedges of protection around me and my marriage so that no lover other than my beloved wife can get to me nor I to other adulterous women.<P>Lord, help me with my present state of Mid life Crisis. Lord, fill me with your grace, love and mercy, and shine upon my life."<P>You can get for both of you the book "The power of a praying wife" by Stormie Omartian. You and your wife can use those prayers. If you go down to women's bible study, you will find that I have typed two chapters of the book on repentance and deliverance. These were at the request of a member who asked about soulish ties - ties that will cling to WS as a result of sleeping with another woman , these ties would make getting out of the rut almost impossible and that is also the reason why a lot of WS keep going back again again to OP. Breaking these ties would mean repenting first before God and getting deliverance for it. Some of the ties would be spirits of lust, low self esteem, idolatry, etc..<P>Do you know that 80% of the who's who in the world have parents or forefathers who are missionaries? That is because God bless them for 1000 generations. My pastor's child can read a novel at 2!<P>So it is good to have God on our side.<P>weep

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dumone:<BR><B> I'm sorry to repeat myself but it is the hardest battle I have had to fight. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Absolutely. I went through an earlier failed marriage, law school, two pregnancies, and breast cancer (with surgery and chemotherapy), and this is _by far_ the hardest. You can do it.<P>Cottonwood<BR>

... and now for the flame.<P>Go to the kitchen, get a knofe and leave it by your computer. Every time you want to e-mail the home-wreaker, pick up the knife and immagine plunging it into your wife. Trust me, that is what it feels like for our wife. The worst part of an EA is all the lies. Every time you contact OW it is another lie that needs to be hidden. This are not small "no, those pants don't make you look fat" lies but deep hurtful wounds. You won't actually see the damage these lies cause until they are found out; and they will be discovered.<P>... flame off.<P>All I know about you is a few lines on the computer screen. I don't know why I should care but I do. I honestly want you to recapture the passion and intamacy you once had with your wife. But if the marriage is truly beyond repair, for your wife's sake end your current relationship before you start another.

I care because my h was there almost one year ago. D-day for me was Oct 29,'99. He had one OW for six months but developed no feelings. So he tried again. In three months with OW #2, he was ready to walk out on me, his son (4) and his daughter (2).<P>You sound like you are closer to seeing it all clearly than many WS that have posted here the year I've been here.<P>You are NOT hurting your wife by staying. Would she say that? The OW would say it to get you to leave. How could she have your best interest at heart?<P>You OWE it to your wife to be by her side and learn all you need to so you can make the marriage strong.<P>I've been through a lot, but we (and especially he) have found the feelings for each other again. He cried on my shoulder when he missed her, he cried for hurting her, did not feel at all for hurting me in the beginning...<P>The first thing you MUST do to for your marriage is to send OW a no contact letter. The form is in SAA, and I posted ours on here not too long ago. It sounds dry and impersonal, but that is really what it takes. We can see it so clearly in hindsight.

I think FHL summed it up well when she said:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If you aim for the inner peace of a life well lived, you will find true happiness as the prize.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is NOT unfair to your wife to stay. What is unfair and cruel would be to leave your wife and children. The OW is not concerned with what is or isn't unfair to your wife. If she cared about you, she would not separate you from your children. <P>My H left me and our 6 children for the OW. When he first left, he saw the children often (the four who wanted anything to do with him), but the OW has consistently pressured him to see less and less of them. He actually admitted that he would do whatever was necessary to preserve the atmosphere in the OW's house as she wanted it. I doubt very much that the day he left he had any inkling of how much he would end up giving up for the OW. <P>And never think for a minute that you would not be divorcing your children in their eyes. Quotes from our children:<P>"He obviously hates you more than he loves us."<P>"He thinks he loves us, but he doesn't know how to love."<P>"There is nothing worse that a parent can do than lie to their kids."<P>"How could he do this? He knows how I (our almost adult child) feel about adultery."<P>You would not just be destroying a marriage. You would be destroying a family. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited October 24, 2000).]

I only have a min...you guys have NO IDEA how much you are helping me...I can't thank you all enough, if I hang out here I think I can make it...I'll see you guys tommorrow, I'll address each of you. Thanks again.

Good Morning everyone! Better day today...yesterday sucked. Anyway...<P>I'm feeling better today, I have been here before, actually scares me because I am waiting for the bottom to fall out, anyway its hard to stop my mind...its like a storm in there, your car analogy was good, THAT IS WHAT I DO!, I hate it. How do you stop? I will try the cognitive approach you suggested...time will tell.<P>Weep: My Angel...I did committ this area to God, I did read Proverbs 4-6, I gotta tell you it was almost immediate relief...eerie. Ya know what scares me though? That I will backslide or forget when things are better, how do I stay committed when the road smooths out? BTW that is a GREAT prayer, thank you...I am going to print it out, laminate it and keep it in my pocket!!!<P>Cottonwood: You are no doubt a strong person, I hope life is treating you better now!? Thanks for the encouragement.<P>Joe: You need to be a little more assertive...dont beat around the bush...get to the point<BG> THANK YOU! your words put right in my face what I was doing to my wife AND my integrity. You are right, and your words are ringing in my ears! I truly hope I will not forget them.<P>Schizzo: How hard that must have been for you to hear and see your H act and say the things he did about the OW. My OW is caught up in this thing as bad as I was (was, past tense) thanks to all you guys I really think I can beat this. I think your right, she IS thinking of her in this...just as I was, just as the people who do leave their families...its a terrible thing, evil. I dont think she is a bad person, Thinking of what my leaving would do to my wife and kids is what kept me from leaving...it almost put me over the edge because there was a time when I felt I had no control, anyway your quotes re-inforced things for me...thank you.<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

You are sounding better, but you are also right about the roller coaster. However, you can make things more stable by keeping mentally positive. This morning why don't you write down a few positive images or snipits of your wedding vows...anything meaningful to keep you from dwelling on the negative.<P>And you know what you need to do. You need cut it off with the OW. Whoever mentioned the dagger was right. Everytime you contact or accept contact from that woman who wishes to destroy your marriage, you plunge a dagger into your wife. Even if she is not aware of it now, it is the ultimate of disrespect and you betray your marriage and your own integrity with each new contact. <P>We could line up here and tell you it was the lies moreso than the actual affair that devasted our marriages. And make no mistake, you adding another layer of lies with each and additional contact. <P>You know what I think of when I think back? Not my H's brief affair that he was actually ending himself at the time I discovered it. As hurtful as whatever that was, I can see it as a big mistake he was getting caught up in. No, what still haunts me today is knowing he could see the torture in my eyes and he could go behind my back, have phone contact with the OW and then lie about it to my face. In 18 years of marriage I have never caught him in another lie. But the knowledge he can and did lie, and the crushing feeling that however important I was, I was not important enough to honor, haunts me still today, almost two years later.<P>And I can understand that you don't "get" this, because although we no longer speak of it, my H never really understood my point of view.<P>He thought he was being kind, letting the OW down easy because of course she had fallen so hard for him in their 4 week relationship (met as strangers). He didn't see how she was manipulating him, trying to draw him back. He didn't see this as hurtful to me (as long as I didn't know).<P>But what really is the point of continued contact? Your decision is made. Your marriage is your fortress and OW has no business in it. In fact it can not be secure with her in it. You are dishonoring your wife and compromising your integrity.<P>And you are not doing the OW any favors, even if she says she needs to communicate with you. She has no intention of letting you fade away. You gotta know that she has her own goals and they certainly are counter to yours. She may have all the goodness of Mother Theresa, I doubt it, but she is an enemy to your marriage. Your priority should be to protect your marriage and you can't do it with her inside the walls of your fortress.<P>Since the decision is made, it is also kinder to just let her be. You can not comfort her and you are the enemy in her marriage and her family as well. YOU do not belong in HER life. Left alone, she will either turn back to her own marriage, or find some way to get her life back together. Contact with you impedes any real progress she can make. <P>What is your priority? Your marriage! Who is in your marriage? You and your wife! What do you need to think and pray about? Restoration of of your own marriage! What do you need to stop? EVERYTHING PERSON, THOUGHT AND ACTION THAT HINDERS YOUR GOAL!<P>When do you start? How's today looking?<P> <p>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited October 25, 2000).]

FHL...I feel kinda bad...if it takes you as long to type as it does me, then I you wasted some time typing all that for me...I did stop contact,so I guess it wasnt wasted on me after all! Thanks for the "in your face" words of how it really is. Again, I dont know where I would be without you guys.<P><A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com/articles.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.dearpeggy.com/articles.html</A> <P>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited October 25, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

Great...maybe I should have read the previous posts again. Short term memory isn't too great.<P>I'm sure the temptation is there, so a extra something to think about can't hurt.<P>In fact expect the next several weeks to be horrible. And remember if you renew contact, you just have to go through them again.<P>Do you have barriers in place from accepting communication from her?

Actually, I have been in withdrawl on and off for over 6 months now so I know all to well what contact can do...longest we went was like 2 weeks, I am embarrassed to say that I gave in. This time it feel different, I think I can do this as long as I hang around here and have freinds like YOU! <p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

So, if you have the time, tell us, what are the great things about your wife?<P>What do you love about your family?<P>How crazy can teens make you ?

Well...She has a kind heart, she would do anything for us, she is always agreeable (almost to a fault), she has beautiful blue eyes, she respects where we are in our life, always has,ie. she is not a spender, I tell her to buy clothes for her...she spends it on the kids! She has been MORE than tolerant with my family thru the years. She has been my pillar thru some hard times where I was not so strong. She makes a mean meatloaf. She hardly askes for anything, she is happy with what I can/have done so far in life for us. She looks at the positive(I wish I could do that)....I will give ya more as they come...next?...What I love about my "family"<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited October 25, 2000).]

My Family...I guess it is your average american family...Wife, 1 kids, mini-van, My kid is GREAT, I really cant complain...I worry about her future...She is doing great in school, she has never been in trouble, she has good freinds, We live in a great town, great neighborhood, great house,...I HAVE IT ALL!!!!WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME??????!!!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by dumone (edited November 02, 2000).]

Nothing that hasn't befallen many of us.<P>I was almost taken aback by your description of your wife...not that I don't have my faults...many of them...but until you got to the meatloaf...you described MY strengths.<P>And yeah, I was rewarded with betrayal, too.<P>It was like a lightening bolt out of the sky, shattering our wonderful blessed and almost charmed life. <P>Like you, I don't think my H MEANT to, for him the whole thing was much shorter, but basically like you, he was in a temporary bad brain place and some quirky contributing factors came together along with opportunity. I was lucky enough that the OW truly was a brazen hussy he met in the bar. It was relatively easy for him to wake up and run. Your seduction was much more subtle with many shades of grey. Sure you crossed the line, but you probably only see it from hindsight.<P>I think the affair came as much of a surprise to my H as to me. To his credit, he has committed himself to never put himself in that environment again (not that he ever was a big bar goer) and he says now it is like looking back at another person. He is horrified it happened.<P>It sounds like once you get yourself past this, this is how you will feel, too.<P>Given how you described your wife and your family, I am sure you agree that any pain and conflicted feelings that hit you in the next weeks and even months will be worth handling to get to the other side of this!