Hello<P>I have been previously posting on the Just Found Out forum regarding my situation of the last 7 weeks. I discovered that my W was having an EA, confronted her and she left that day.<P>She has since moved most of her belongings into a friends house and has arranged for her salary to go into her own account. I quickly bought SAA and have taken much advice from people on these forums. I was effectively trying to Plan A although my W is no longer at home. I am looking after our 2 children and my W collects them from school each day but leaves when I arrive home. She is still definitely seeing OM and it is now an EA/PA.<P>I had a really bad day at work on Thursday and my boss sent me home on compassiionate grounds. However yesterday I woke up and it was though a switch had been thrown in my head. I simple felt that I could not sit back and accept this situation any longer.<BR>In My case the OM lives 150 miles away and my W meets with him about once every 2 weeks. I believe than Plan A cannot work for me since she is effectively doing a Plan B on me.<P>Anyway last night I began to LB all over the place. Although I did not show anger, I definitely spoke my mind in a calm clear way. There were probably a few "disrespectful" judgments but no personal accusations or criticisms towards my W.<P>I simply told her that I loved her and wanted her back. She again replied that this was "not going to happen" and that she no longer felt the same about me.<P>(Before D-Day we had had no real arguments and were still sleeping together - I had noticed no real change in her) I believe that the reason that she left on D-Day was the pure shame and guilt in being discovered. Obviously there were/are some ENs that I was not meeting but she never gace me any indication of her unhappiness.<BR>The biggest cause of anger for me is the fact that I have told her that she is my no.1 priority and I am willing to try and change any aspect of myself and our relationship to win her back. She says that she is not interested in trying. I find this ridiculous, she should be willing to at least try for the benefit of our children if not me initially.<P>Anyway after once again hearing her negative opinion on our future and her belief that I will never change, I simply told her that I was no longer going to sit back and watch and wait for this situation to develop.<P>I have advised her that I shall be contacting the OM's wife this week to advise her of the situation (she does not realise her H is having an A) I have explained that this is not out of spite or anger but I that I owe it to my children and myself to take some positive(?) action to change the current situation. I finished off by reiterating that I love her.<P>As you might agree this is defnitely LB'ing but I'm sorry I am just struggling to Plan A in the face of such adamant rejection and the fact that she is not even in the house anymore. <P>The strange thing is that it has now been almost 24 hours and I still don't regret what I said. I think a part of me is accepting that there is a real possibility that she may not return and I have to "toughen up" and do what I feel is right for me?<P><BR>Any opinions on this? or is all hope now lost?<P>Thanks<P><BR>HarryHat<P>P.S. I intend to follow through and speak to OM's wife either today or tomorrow. I would welcome any feedback on the best way to do this (phone, letter, Email etc.) from anybody that has done the same.<P>

I think that there is always hope. Your wife fell in love with you one time and I think that she can fall back in love with you. You need to follow your heart and do what feels right for you! After 36 yrs. of marriage, my husband cheated and when found out he moved out to be with OW that he said he loved. He never moved in with her, and after 5 months he called me and wanted me back. We have been back together for a year now and he is doing everything he can to make up for what he did. <BR> So you see there is hope.<BR>I wish you well and take care of yourself. <P>------------------<BR>Gayle

HarryHat,<P>I don't think all hope is lost. I think you had a lightbulb moment after hitting the bottom. I think you are reclaiming your life. That life may not be the same as you had a few weeks ago, it may not be the life you are hoping for, but you have reclaimed it as YOURS!!! And that is a wonderful thing.<P>Personally, I think you should tell OM's W. I don't think you are doing it out of vengeance, I think it's one of those things that you have to do to keep yourself from being as guilty as W and the OM. <P>I think I would do it by email if possible, and leave a number that you can be reached at if she wants to call to ask questions or whatever. I've never had to do this. I've always been the one getting the phone call or the knock on the door. You literally almost lose control of bodily functions. I think it would be easier to read it. Then you have time and privacy to be sick, cry, throw things, and gather your thoughts to form the questions you need answered.

new to board, well I have been lurking for three months now, H had an affair, we are trying to overcome, he is doing everything right. I am the one having a hard time with it. I wanted to respond to you because of what I did when I left my first marriage to be with this H. We met as friends, I was married over twenty years. I couldn't have a PA. Just couldn't do it. So I moved out. (justification). After three years with H. (1yr.marriage) I now realize what I gave up with first H. If he would have known of this site and talked with me openly and knew how to communicate I would be with him. This isn't to say that he should have let me walk on him. I think he is better off without me. It is just to say I have been on both sides now.(so what goes around comes around). If I knew then what I know now I would have chosen the boring married life to all of the excitement.So if you want her back, be patient with her. I now know what the fog is that everyone is talking of. And it is so true that the grass is greener because it is getting watered. I can't go back but if I could....

Harry,<P>I would have to agree with PamO...you are reclaiming yourself. It is the beginning of disonnecting from the A and realizing that there is life with or without your S.<P>I have told you in posts of my situation with telling the OW about her H's afair with my W. OW was a friend, so it was a little easier. I filled her in over coffee, then with a lengthy email that laid out the affair in a chronological fashion. If she chose to, she could then make comparisons with her notes of strange behavior. <P>I did expereince what you are going through. I kind of hit bottom, felt like a doormat, then stood up for myself. I tried not to LB...although it was hard not to. When I uncorked what was bottled up, there was some LBing that couldn't be helped. <P>Once I took a stand, I felt as though I was newly empowered. I knew that everything would be OK...if not ultimately in this marriage, then certainly in the future. Of course, my primary goal is still fixing my relationship with my W.<P>There is always reason to hope, and I don't advocate giving in without a tremendous effort, but your should prepare yourself for the opposite side of your dreams too. You will become better for it...<P>Bob<p>[This message has been edited by Dynamo (edited October 23, 2000).]

Thanks for the replies.<P>I think both PamO and Bob hit the nail on the head. The lightbulb analogy seems like what I have experienced.<P>It has been 2 days now and I still don't regret what I said and am adamant to contact the OM's W. I tried yesterday by phone but got no answer.<P>I hope that this state of mind stays with me as for some reason I feel much stronger even though my circumstances haven't changed.<P>Maybe it's just self-preservation setting in but I'm not going to just let this happen to me without a fight (not literally!)<P>I really don't know if this will do me any good in terms of my W's affair and her future decisions/actions on our relationship but I have read opposing theories that in some way it may make her gain back some respect for me if I act on my words and show that I'm not going to let this destroy me.<P>Thanks again for the replies<P>HarryHat<BR>

Harry, <P>I think even more importantly, it will help you gain back some of your own self-respect that this whole distasteful thing ripped away from you.

Harry,<P>It is easy to understand why you feel the way you do, how hurt you are, etc. But, consider what your goal is, and are your actions likely to achieve it?<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B><BR>Anyway last night I began to LB all over the place. Although I did not show anger, I definitely spoke my mind in a calm clear way. There were probably a few "disrespectful" judgments but no personal accusations or criticisms towards my W.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, this sounds like a bit of an oxymoron, because disrespectful judgements are criticisms and accusations, even if indirect.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B><BR>I simply told her that I loved her and wanted her back. She again replied that this was "not going to happen" and that she no longer felt the same about me.<P>(Before D-Day we had had no real arguments and were still sleeping together - Obviously there were/are some ENs that I was not meeting but she never gace me any indication of her unhappiness.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fundamental difference in your personal realities- she is in withdrawal, you are in conflict. Have you read His Needs/Her Needs? This situation arises when one party to the marriage has a much lower "love bank" balance than the other- in this case, your wife, vs. you. Some people tend to withhold criticism; I've also seen marriages where one spouse would discuss issues in some detail- once, or at most twice, and if no response is forthcoming- drop the issue. It doesn't mean the hurt and damage is any less, or any less ongoing.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B><BR>The biggest cause of anger for me is the fact that I have told her that she is my no.1 priority and I am willing to try and change any aspect of myself and our relationship to win her back. She says that she is not interested in trying. I find this ridiculous, she should be willing to at least try for the benefit of our children if not me initially.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Again, you are in conflict, she is in withdrawal. Fundamental, and enormous difference in perspective. Your criticizing her state of "withdrawal" only further depletes or sends into negative numbers her love bank balance. It may make you feel good to vent, though. Temporarily, at least.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B><BR>Anyway after once again hearing her negative opinion on our future and her belief that I will never change, I simply told her that I was no longer going to sit back and watch and wait for this situation to develop.<P>I have advised her that I shall be contacting the OM's wife this week to advise her of the situation (she does not realise her H is having an A) I have explained that this is not out of spite or anger but I that I owe it to my children and myself to take some positive(?) action to change the current situation. I finished off by reiterating that I love her.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your behavior at this meeting may well reinforce her belief that you won't change, because it could have elements of what has been problematical for her in the past. Beating someone about the head emotionally while you finish off saying "I love you" is something of a non sequitur. You may see a way that telling the OM's wife will benefit you and your children, but it's not explained here, and it may have no basis in fact- may force the OM to commit to your wife. Is that really what you want? The more time they spend together, the more "committed " there relationship becomes, whether by their own choices, or by externally driven events, the less likely you will have any opportunity or recourse.<P>Having known several friends in similar situations, and observed their behaviors and the results, I feel I should warn you that what you appear headed for with your current actions is severing your relationship completely with your wife. The anger you have may be what's fueling this- without your consciously self directing different behaviors, you'll almost certainly wind up with this result. <BR>I'm sorry to be so harsh and direct with you, but since you profess very strongly that you want to save your marriage in this and other posts, I feel compelled to try to get you to read Harley's materials and others a bit more carefully, and think and re-think before venting emotinoally. Otherwise, I think you run a very real risk of sabotaging your conscous goals. <BR>At this stage, I'd unqualifiedly recommend you consider a few phone counseling sessions with the Harley's, for their inputs and advice, and to get your Plan A back on track, if that's what you're really interested in doing. If you're primarily interested in protecting yourself and your children emotionally, then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your conscious goals. The Harley's may be helpful in doing that, also.<P>Best wishes for your future,<P>Jon

Jon<P>Thank you for your considered and well-articulated views on my situation.<P>I can understand exactly where you are coming from and I have to accept that this may worsen the chances of my W's return.<P>Maybe I am not "strong" enough to continue Plan A or maybe I a am too "strong" to allow my self-respect to be damaged beyond repair.<P>I have had 7 solid weeks of almost no contact with my Wife. When I have tried to talk with her in a very Plan A way I have experienced constant rebuttals. What has made the situation reach this point is the increasing effect that this is having on my children (ages 6 and 3)<P>They have noticed that Mummy is never at home, my 6 year old son has started having regular "accidents" of the toilet variety and is becoming very clingy with me. My W has not even seen the kids since Sunday and does not intend doing so until Saturday.<P>This is possibly the "fog" at its worst and I cannot sit back and let my children be affected without taking any action. I have tried talking but to no avail.<P>My only rationale, misguided or otherwise, in informing the OM's Wife is the hope that it will put some external pressure on the Affair and that it will no longer be a special secret.<P>Yes I know that this could backfire and push them closer together, but then don't the Harleys suggest that in the majority of cases an affair needs a phase of "living together" for the cracks to appear and the relationship to fragment.<P>I am effectively in No Mans Land. This particular affair will take an eternity to die under its own weight due to W and OM meeting once every two weeks - every time they meet it is special and new and exciting. Familiarity/Boredom/Re-evaluation will not even start to set in for months and months under these circumstances.<P>My fear is the damage to my kids and my own sanity (I have to be strong for them) if I try and Plan A for months on end whilst they carry on their merry dance.<P>I am by nature a bit of a deep-thinker and in the last 7 weeks I have thought about every implication, every outcome and every twist and turn of every decision that could be made about this situation. I have ultimately made a decision to act based on my own gut-feeling of what is for the best.<P>I haven't fully accepted that my W may never come back but am considering that this is a possibility. I don't personally feel that my decision to inform OM's W will sway her mind one way or the other. Whichever decision she has made/will make I feel has already been decided by her.<P>When she says that she isn't coming back she isn't convincing me. She can't make eye contact and say it, she simply looks at the floor shaking her head and mumbles it. <P>There are obviously EN's that were not being met but none of these were ever addressed to me in any "detail" as you mention. <P><BR>With regard to my intention, I did contact OM's W last night by telephone and gave her an appraisal of my knowledge of the situation. She was remarkably calm and thanked me for letting her know and said that she would have done the same for me had the shoe been on the other foot. She called me back an hour later to say that her H had stormed off in the car and would not be back until the following day (today).<P>About half an hour later, I received a phone call from OM who appeared to have an agenda to taunt me. He opened with "You know that you'll never get her back now" I simply said that she had informed me of this anyway so what difference did it make.<P>He appeared to be very irate but I would not be drawn into it and simply replaced the receiver.<P>I'm not proud of informing OM's W but neither am I ashamed - I was thanked by her for doing it. I think OM's W summed the situation up by stating that it's now up to the 2 of them (My W and OM) to sort out the situation for themselves.<P><BR>Sorry for rambling and sorry for falling off the Plan A wagon but sometimes you can think too hard when really it is action that is required. (Lightbulb still on)<P><BR>HarryHat<BR><p>[This message has been edited by HarryHat (edited October 25, 2000).]

Dear HarryHat:<P>Possibly my *story* will give you a little encouragement...I certainly hope so...<P>I was told of my H's affair by the OW's H a little over 1 year ago.<P>Although it was one of the WORST days of my life, it was also (ironically) one of the BEST.<P>I honestly believe that THAT PHONE CALL saved my marriage.<P>I will forever be eternally grateful to OWH for opening my eyes...for allowing me to take the steps I needed to take in order to PROTECT my children, myself, and to actively work on *reclaiming* my H.<P>As far as OW and her H are concerned--last time we heard, they were also still together as a couple.<P>HarryHat: You did what you FELT you HAD TO DO...fight or flight situation. I hope, with all my heart, that one day soon your wife will respect that you stood up and *fought* to *reclaim* the life/marriage you so richly deserve.<P>Peace and Prayers to your family, ~Marie<P>------------------<BR>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown

Marie<P>I cannot thank you enough for your post of encouragement.<P>I hope that my situation can have an ending similar to your own story. Unfortunately it is not entirely in my hands. I hope that the OM's W is as strong and caring as you.<P>Thanks Again<P><BR>HarryHat<P>

Harry....<P>Oh how I can relate to you...My H had an A this summer with a women in Europe. This has been the most devasting time in my life. After D-day there was so much garbage that happened, that involved our children, family and friends. He has become very angry and has put up brick walls around himself. God has given me the blessing of knowing myself. I have examined me over and over and this is part my fault. H love bank was gone.. I have been reading His needs/Her needs and this has opened my eyes to so many different things. My H tells me he no longer loves me, and wants a divorce. He got himself an apartment, and lives by himself. To add to this he is depressed, and on medication. He also has ADD....This alone makes it even harder. Last night I called him on the phone and H was so mean with his words...Hating me, telling me it is over, not loving me, and he's moving to start fresh..We talked for 2 hrs, and finally he came over to talk somemore. H did stay overnight, and just held me all night long. I will not give up..I know in my heart H still loves me, he can't forget after 19 yeaars. But enough about me..I went straight to God....I had been praying that He would fix our marriage, begging him. I finally realized in reading His word, I HAVE NO CONTROL OF THIS SITUATION...So I surrendered EVERYTHING to God. Asking Him to work on me..Surrending my marriage and H. Now I am in Plan A, have counseling session with Harley tomorrow morning. I am working on me...I am beginning to like myself, but I am not the one doing it. Don't give up, God wants you to trust him, obey Him, and know that His way is the only way. If this marriage does not work out for you, you know God has a much better plan for you. His way is the only way..and we as humans have the nature to fix everything ourselves. Put your marriage in His hands, TRUST Him with all your heart, and ask him to strength you faith in Him. That is all we can do, we do not have control of our spouse, nor do we have control of our lives. GOD does. It is easier to give advise than to take it.....JUST PRAY....<P>Vincent

Harry,<P>I am so proud of you. You did the right thing by telling the OM's W. I am sure there are many that will disagree for different reasons, but it was morally the right thing to do. It may not get you what want, but it was the humane thing to do. <P>If you saw someone crossing the street and there was a car coming straight at them, you would yell "Get out of the way!!", and this is no different.<P>My H's OW was only 18, and single. She did however live at home, and her parents knew from the beginning that she was seeing my H, that he was 10 years older than she, married and had 2 children. I think if they were even half way decent parents they would have told me. I have 3 daughters, and you can bet your last dollar that if they ever get themselves in a situation like that I would tell that man's wife immediately so that he would get the heck out of my kid's life and save them a great deal of pain. <P>I hope your wife comes back to you, but even if she doesn't, you took the moral high ground in this, and for that you can hold your head high.