Acknowledge the man who is standing before you today...a very good quote from Marie. In doing that I see someone that I find it hard to like very much.<P> A little background of the last few months. Things seemed to be getting better between H and I. We have been doing and doing, even went on a trip together to Maine. I have been honest in my feelings and fears and concerns and quite frankly I like the person I have become. <P>I do not however like the person my H has become. A couple of days ago after reading emails from OW and finding things in his desk that she had given him I talked to a close friend and she suggested just talking to him about it and asking if there had been any contact between them. I did, in a very nonaccusatory manner, just in the course of a conversation and he said no, not in any manner. Then a little later he said that he did not feel that people should lie to one another, there was really no reason to. Okay. <BR>So he lied to me and then said that he had no reason to lie to me in the same breath.<P>He also told me that he had told OW earlier this summer that it was over, that he had moved home and then relocated his office for 'us'...not hardly, she has been clueless up until now. This is combined with his repeated statements that I had nothing to be concerned about.<P>And that is the sticky part. The last email that I read was not very nice. She titled it sorry to be part of it and was very upset that he had not allowed her to pack up his stuff to help her through this transition...he and his new tech went up unannounced and moved everything...including the furniture! She was also angry at his statement that she would have to get in line behind everything else in his life and wondered if she was even in that line anymore. There were a few more not very nice statements about his behavior to her.<P>So do I just grit my teeth and go on and hope that she just keeps pushing until he has had it...he is not a man that likes nasty emails or feeling like he is being pushed. He has been distancing himself from her...at one time he told me in no uncertain terms would he give her up or move his office and he has done alot towards doing both. I have a feeling that all the actual ending has really just started to occur. So do I just wait it out? <P>I did go through our house and got rid of everything that had anything to do with her...mostly phone messages that she had taken for H. I recorded the info in our computer and threw them away. So my next question...should I suggest that I help H do the same in his new office? Straighten things up a little and get rid of the 'stuff' that he doesn't need? He will say no, and I know why...it is hard telling what all he has there from her that he does not want me to see. So much for me being happy because her presence won't be there. <P>So here I am stuck between wanting to confront him and laying low because he has done something that looks like progress even though it has taken months for it to happen.<P>I am getting very tired of giving and giving and not having the emotional support I need from him. H said that I did not seem happy. Well who would be in this case...living with a man who wants me to share my soul with him but is not trustworty. HIs way of dealing with this is to not deal with it and hope that it will just go away. My patience is wearing thin. Sometimes it seems like he is hanging onto me, sort of like the drowning man hanging on for dear life. Like I am the source of stability in his life... and he did say that he was happy. So...what do I do next? Sometimes I just don't know what to do!<P><BR>

I'm not sure what to tell you. I know what I did when I discovered contact--after he swore there was no contact. To say I "confronted" would be far too mild.<P>From your post it sounds like he's lying to you that it is over & she knows that, but she hasn't known it was over & they are in contact. You aren't confronting him because things have been better between you. But he still lies.<P>He's lying to her, her wondering how far back she's falling in his priorities isn't the same as having been told it is over.<P>Certainly waiting patiently while the WS comes out of the fog is a part of the process toward reconciliation. But there comes a time when both partners have to be in the marriage for it to work. Unfortunately one partner cannot force the other to do so .<P>I think you will know when it is time to draw the line in the sand and say no more of this lying/contact crap. (well, say it nicer, if you can) But he's draining your lovebank & there is likely to come a time, even if he's "happy" that you will be so unhappy and love drained that it may no longer matter to you. <P>My marriage has come back from that point, but it was very difficult. Keep a good monitor on your feelings & goals. Sometimes the Betrayed doesn't know how much damage they have sustained until it is very close to too late--even if the WS comes around.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Hey Victoria,<P>Wow...things just don't get easier very quickly do they?<P>You have the patience of a Saint. It sounds to me like your husband is over it. Just wants it all to go away, like a bad dream, and wants you around to clean up the mess. This is not altogether a bad thing Victoria.<P>You know that right now you are the strong one. He is reeling from what he has done, probably cannot believe it was him. He is doing what he needs to do to get rid of her, but she sounds like a persistent little pest.<P>It's a process hon, this mess. It won't happen overnight, but it does sound like he is trying. Give him some credit for that, and let him know that you understand that he is getting there. She will be around to annoy you, that is her job right now. It's almost funny to me how these OW makes such fools of themselves. She is the loser and she damn well knows it and is not going to go down gracefully. You have every reason in the world to hold your head up high. <P>It was good to see a post from you, though I wish it could have been for happier reasons. How did the trip to Maine go? Are you guys spending a lot of time together? Do you feel like you are partners again? <P>Recovery seems to be a rocky time, I don't know, I've not been there, but it's not going to be smooth from what I read. The important thing here is that he is trying, thank God. <P>~allison

Hi, Honey. I've been working on a email, but I'll just write it here. Now, you know, I think weird sometimes, but here goes.<P>First of all, congratulations on the steps he has taken to remove himself, albeit slowly. If you remember, Robert did exactly the same thing after he came home....little bits at a time and PT got increasingly demanding and I became amazingly frustrated (just didn't show him). But he did...he finished it and it's over, done and I'm not worried in the least anymore. And to top it all off, my wonderful husband is STILL convinced that the way he handled things was absolutely the best way to do it! Oh, well, whatcha gonna do???? Either way, it's over and it looks like your h is headed in that direction as well. Hold on to that, those baby steps, cherish and encourage them. <P>Ok, you know our two guys have seemed to think a bit alike during this mess. So I'll tell you how I handled sorta similar stuff and you follow your own instincts. Offer to help with his office and tell him why. Yup, tell him why. That it would make you feel better. That you KNOW there's stuff there and you would like for the two of you to get rid of some of it together. That you will not criticize him or make a fuss over things he may not be ready to get rid of at this time. Trust me, there will be some. No biggie. That's how we handled a few boxes of Roberts and it worked out just fine. Had some nifty bonfires and then one day he just told me to go grab the rest and burn it. On his own...I hadn't mentioned the stuff in months.<P>I wouldn't have handled things as your friend did. I wouldn't have set him up to lie by "asking" and that's exactly what took place. Maybe think of it this way for next time. And yes, this too comes from experience.....experience I don't have to worry about anymore. You pretty much knew he had contact, he had promised he wouldn't, you asked if he had. Now, his first cowardly instinct is NOT to admit that he didn't keep his promise and that's exactly what he did. Asking the question presented a no-win situation for him. If he said "no", it appears he kept his promise, he'd really TRY from now on to keep his promise, after all, he believes he's trying his best anyway and you don't know any different, BUT he's lying. If you catch him, he's in trouble. If he says "yes", he's admitting he didn't keep a promise which still makes him look terrible and once you get upset about it, well, he loses again. I had to deal with this sort of thing a few times.....<P>"Honey, I am SOOOO glad that I can count on you now more than I could in the past. BTW, what on earth did you say to PT to get her so upset. I know you hadn't gotten around to telling me that you've been talking to her, but I found this note and she obviously is NOT very happy with you."<P>Yup, I'm admitting to snooping, but he missed it 'cause he was in a bind. He doesn't have to decide whether or not to lie, 'cause I already know and it's easier to tell the truth since I'm not bouncing off the ceiling or anything. Had a few of these. Eventually, he felt safe enough to just voluteer the info...but that took a while. <P>Another good thing...she lovebusted and nagged and threw tantrums, I was wonderful, she's gone, I'm not. Now I never said I APPROVED of the contact....in fact, I told him it hurt me, but not as much as if he didn't lie to me about it. Somehow, he took that as a compliment. Whatever. I don't believe in asking a question if you already know the answer. It's not fair and it's a bit dishonest. I don't even do that to my teenaged daughter. If I know, or am pretty sure I know, I simply state it as a fact and ask for elaboration. It's still a corner, but not such a tight one.<P>OK, Honey, if he hadn't been trying at all, I'd maybe advise differently. But I've learned that we can't project OUR definition of trying to our spouses OR our friends, betrayed or waywards. He's still got a ways to go, but he's working at it, maybe as quickly and the best he can. I know you. You've got a lot more strength left in you to work this out. I know what it feels like when you think you've reached the end of your patience, but you haven't yet. Your time isn't here yet. He has much more healing to do and, for now, you're the one in the best shape, with the clearer head, and the stronger constitution. Your day will come and he will be there to help you. i know you can continue to help him grow strong....i know you can.<P>Take care of yourself....try to confront the little "transgressions" with strength, patience and understanding. If he is steadily improving, then, sometimes that's all you can really ask. (I'm ducking now!) Deciding to work on the marriage or come home is just the beginning of the long journey for them and they'll stumble sometimes. They will get there, it just always seems to take longer than we expect.<P>Oh, well, I'll shut up now. Thinking of you. Hang in there.<P>Luv ya!<P>Lori

Well thanks for the input, all of you. <BR>I have been and will continue to be my usual cheerful self because that is who I am. And I really don't show H my frustration over the things that he does. I know that it doesn't work. That is definitely a plus in my corner, I know what it does to him, OW doesn't but if she keeps on he will let her have it. And all her b**ing and whining makes me look like a saint. The wife (and I emphasize the word WIFE here) who has such a deep and unshakable love for him even after such a big mistake.<P> And yes, maybe in hind sight it was a setup, but at the time I was just looking for an answer from a man who has told me that he would be honest with me no matter what. But I also think that he is having a hard time because I AM being honest with him and telling him how much I care and appreciate all that he has done, and he knows he is hiding this from me.<P>So I guess in the end it is the same answer. He has to deal with himself right now. I already have and I know where I stand and that I am NOT going anywhere. Got H a card a couple weeks ago, a silly little thing that had two dogs on the front with their arms around each other, it said something about being so lucky to have him to hold me at night. I wrote in it that through all the ups and downs we had weathered them all together and if asked if I would make the same decision that I made 18 years ago I would answer yes. He held me for a really long time and kissed me. At that moment I FELT the man that he used to be and know that he is still in there, just a little unsure of what to do next.<P>As for the office, that will be the next thing. I usually go there on Friday afternoons and take him a snack, also a new occurance. He called and invited me the first time, and now it has just carried on. So maybe I will approach it then. Another good sign.<P>Allison-as for Maine...it was great. WE had a really good time. H had to go for a meeting and we extended it into a 10 day trip. I even sat in on some of the meetings and had good talks with the people there. I am almost as informed as H on the issues as we talk about them all the time (another plus for me as OW is pretty uninformed and could never keep up with H's intellect...he is a statistical whiz, I understand, she never will). Afterwards they told me that if H wouldn't bring me next year they would invite me themselves! And a plus, OW called our house looking for H and she was really nasty to my mom. Apparently she didn't know or remember where we were! <P>And yes we go practically everywhere together, I have been going with H as much as possible on work related things, at his request, and having a ball. We are definitely spending as much time as humanly possible together. And yes he calls me by his nickname for me all the time and snuggles me up in bed just like he used to. I guess he is pretty happy at home...and I intend to keep it that way.<P>I guess that is the answer, keep doing the things that I love doing and eventually he will KNOW without a doubt he is at 'home' and safe being there.<P>Thanks again you guys, you always give me the insight that I need. <P><BR>

Nothing more to add, but I suspect things will be getting better for you!