Just a simple question. WS goes out all the time, almost every night. It is just a way of life now that she doesn't do laundry, cooking, cleaning. Just goes out, and usually with OM. Plans on separating, but now not till January, been like this since June. Lately she has said nice things about how I've handled this, being a great father, etc., and that she is confident we'll be "at least" friends.<P>I read on the Plan A forum about BS starting to go out more having an impact on their WS thoughts. Tables get turned. My attitude has been - if she wants to abandon our home/children and be out all the time, I'll do the right thing and stay home. However, I'm wondering if going out more, and making her stay home a bit, might get her thinking a bit.<P>The only times I've gone out anywhere lately, or planned to, she always says, "thats OK, I'll just go out when you get home". She assumes I'll be home early enough for her to go out, and it is like a given that she'll go somewhere each night. I'm thinking I should go out later every now and then.<P>What do you think?<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited October 25, 2000).]

Rick,<P>I would invite her to leave like she was originally going to do. Sorry, but you are allowing her to stay until Jan with no additional effort on her part. If she is out with OM every night, not taking care of the kids, and ignoring her responsibilities, not to mention the marriage. <P>I really do think it is time for her to sample life alone. Just as she was planning to do. From what you are posting nothing has changed except her timetable and that was for her convenience.<P>I don't think the "fighting fire with fire" will really help. All that does is mean that you two are still not spending time together, it is just you who is out having a few.<P>I know this MB, but I do think it is Plan B time with regard to this behavior. It has really gone a long time, right??<P>Just my opinion hope it provides some help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Just Learning,<P>Thanks for your thoughts.<P>For some reason, I've been having a harder time being committed to Plan A in the past few days. And this is so even considering that I started to see a few signs of hope in the past week. I'm also very suspicious of those signs too, because sometimes it seems to be because she wants something. I think one reason is because I read emails where she calls him "little stud muffin" and he calls her silly names. Discussions about her leaving, life on her own, etc. seem to throw her into a tailspin, which makes me wonder about whether she doesn't go because it is too convenient now.<P>I don't know. I see results from Plan A, but yet I'm getting impatient. She says she doesn't want to upset the kids before Xmas, but if someone really wants to separate, why don't they do it now. She takes possession of her new house in one week. I also think though, that the longer I keep her here, the better for my Plan A, as suggested by others.<P>I need to think some more about this.<P>

Hi, Rick. I think that your wife has no inkling of what it's like with responsibility because she's had you there to do everything. <BR>You're a wonderful and responsible person obviously, but she has to realize that she is part of the equation, and honestly, she's acting like a child with no responsibility at the moment. I agree with JL in that I don't see fighting fire with fire to be the solution (and would certainly would only serve to hurt the kids) but I know with my H that he would do this to a certain degree (but I didn't have the patience you do) and it was neverending until I said "enough". <P>There is also the chance that you are going to get to the end of your rope and have nothing left to give if you don't set a Plan B in motion. It's a hard call, but her priorities are all out of whack, and I think it would be awfully hard to reason with her at this point (if not impossible). <P>I guess it's how much you can take, and how little she gives in return and how much you expect to gain from your Plan A, which may not work while the affair is in progress (from what I've read). The mind of the betrayer is obviously pretty strange; my H said he would have rather I put my foot down sooner. I know in my own situation I couldn't take my H being with someone else (it's terribly hard to deposit love units when they are involved with another, you know), there are boundaries. <P>It's a very hard situation to be placed in, and my heart goes out to you.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Kayleigh (edited October 25, 2000).]

Rick,<P>If you are going to do Plan B do it before all of the love is gone. But also if she moves into other house now, then the kids have time to adjust before Xmas. Is she planning on taking the kids with her or leaving them with you??<P>You see having a home with an Xmas tree and children will look much different from the outside than the inside. So if she really isn't trying and she is just out partying, then I would think about Plan B now, not during the depressing period after Xmas. That might be tougher on the children.<P>I not spouting gospel here, so do what you think is best.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

The plan is that children are split 50/50, but she is worried about telling them. Of course, I am too....I don't ever want to have to shatter their world (2.5 and almost 5). She definitely isn't trying, indicated she wanted to separate in June, and is just having it her way now. However, I know about OM, and she clings to the idea that no one knows.<BR>

Hi Rick:<P>I believe that someone has said this before but let me say it again...when you leave a relationship then you should expect that all the benefits of that relationship no longer exist.<P>Your wife has exited herself from your relationship yet expects you to stay and pick up her responsibilities in the marriage while she plays around with OM. Those children and that home are just as much her responsibility as they are yours and you are failing to make her live up to that responsibility by doing it for her.<P>I don't think that this is what Plan A is for...it is for working on you and learning how to communicate and better fill your wife's EN in the marriage. Right now, she's merely being selfish and taking advantage of you...while she enjoys herself. <P>No, I don't think you ought to go out more to force her to be there more...but you ought to start to force her to accept more of her responsibility. You need to stop trying to do her job too. Begin to insist that she share some of the childcare and household chores as long as she is living there. That's not asking too much of her and if she doesn't agree then ask her to leave. She's not fulfilling any of her obligations to you, why should you continue to feel like you have obligations to her?<P>You can continue to express your love and need for her without letting her walk all over you in her selfishness. She will respect you more in the end for having stood up for yourself.<P>My love and prayers ~ Faye<BR><p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited October 25, 2000).]

Rick-<P>I did not take time to read all of the responses, but this is my opinion.<P>YES!!!!!<P>Ever since dday, I have been trying to find myself. I have lost weight, got a makover at the department store, bought some really expensive makeup. Just a lot of things for me that I hve never done and thought pampering is a good idea right now. As the mother in our house, I sacrafice everything for everyone all the time to the exclusion of none. <P>Since I found out about the A, I have changed my tune. If I can sacrafice excruciatingly while he lives as he pleases and even gets sex elswhere, and finds LOVE elswhere. Well dang, I am not going to sacrafice for HIM anymore. I am plan A-ing and I am getting nowhere fast. But I did stick to my program of slef discovery and pampering.<P>I have joined another choral group which requires my H to watch them, even to come home early join us at soccer while I rush home to grab a bite. I am out not too late, but it is new for me. On Weds. I have joined a CoDa group to help me deal with being codependent-so I can be a better person and mother--to everyone really, and especially to myself! He has to again meet us at home before soccer because it starts earlier. He is on duty again. He is getting a lot out of being Dad for once. He is looking at his kids in another way(like can he live without them.) The kids are so happy with his attention.<P>If I feel like going out on the weekend, I tell him in advance and tell him he must watch them, he says fine. Now, the OW for me is not local, so I do not have to compete with her time here at home. But he allows me the freedom I have denied myself for so long. I wish I were rich! I would be going everywhere in the city doing all kinds of things! I even wish sometimes that my h could join me, because we never took the time in the past to have a date nite, and it is a pity now that we wasted so much valuable time. How was I to know that he would start another relationship? <P>The weird thing is, the A-relationship is paid for by his business trips. He writes off all expenses of his A, because they are all on his trips. She does the same, they are in the same industry. What a neat package. They live like the rich, eating at the finest restaurants spending $165 on a single dinner for two, hotel room to play in, shows, etc. They are so spoiled with this fantasy life they have created! Wait until they try to live on their actual saleries-my H's in half or less! <P>It won't last long. My H is only now after 16 years of marriage taking a real look at our finances and living responsibly within our range. But our debt still pushes past the paycheck.<BR> If I push him out, but plan A as I plan to, he might get the idea, especially if he tried to live with her(out of state.) But the reality is, she would move here, his business is here. But I told him if they are even contemplating that I will move out of the state instantly, but kill her before I leave! I will not share my home(or town) with the B****. The everone would know! Including my kids. That is something I am not willing to live with. I have too much respect for me and for them to allow them to know that their father is MLC-ing his way right out of our lives! But nope. I will not be the one to do it. <P>Back to the subject--sorry I am chatty tonite--Go out. Have fun. Go to some concerts, go out with friends, stay out late. If your W wants to go out herself, make sure SHE gets the sitter--and PAYS for it!! <P>And as far as the house goes it is a great time to teach the kids some responsibilities. Have them help you. Make a race out of it, whoever wins gets to pick the video, or restaurant, or whatever...That is what I have had to do. They are slowly beginning not to gripe so much. And I am getting a break! That is the real blessing! And now it is OUR house, not mine. (When I do all the work I always think of it as all mine because I do so much to keep it going.) Now I am not so quick to say "my" this or that. I like that.

Rick - I've been following your posts and I'm ready to recommend you to ask her to leave right now. Call it plan B if you want, but this is ridiculous. Give her a day or two to figure out where she wants to go, then 23 skido. Maybe time for tough love.<P>WAT

Rick<BR>I don't post here much, but lurk daily. I say YES, go out and have a good time. Go to the movies, out with friends, take a class (something fun)etc. Don't do anything that compromises your integrity but there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a life yourself. In fact, I think that's one thing that kind of turned my H off me and onto the OW for a while is that she was/is a little social butterfly and I didn't go out every night. I was not a total homebody but that's how he sees it. Right now we are working very hard on us but I still plan to take some classes at the local recreation center and meet some new people. I think even if it doesn't make her think she's messed up big time or make you more desirable in her eyes at least it could be fun and who's to say we don't all deserve a little fun every now and then.<BR>Sherry

Rick,<P>I told my then w that she couldn't live here at home and date. When I caught them together and caught her lying to the kids, she moved out and into a motel with om. He moved back home for a few weeks but paid for her stay for a week. She then found an apartment and moved there, taking the money out of our account. Om moved in shortly after.<P><BR>I am not sure Plan B works anymore. It seems like most WS have the finaces to support themselves or the OP does somehow.<P>IMO, I would tell your w, that she can stay there and date. I wouldn't try to get into a contest with her either about going out because your kids will be the one that lose. X will simply go out later and may not come home at all.<P>I just wanted you to be aware if , you do ask her to leave, she may not come back.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Rick,<P>I have lived your life. It stinks. While my H was having his little daliance, he was out EVERY SINGLE NIGHT OF THE WEEK. He lived the life of a single man, but with the added benefit of coming home every evening and seeing his kids for a few minutes before he changed to go out. He'd come home and unload all the crap from his day to me, and then he'd feel at ease and relaxed when he went out screwing around. <P>My already low lovebank quickly went into overdraft and then shut down. <P>If you are not careful, and for that matter if your W isn't careful, there will be no love left in your heart for her to have the option to come back. <P>If she takes possession of her house in one week, then buddy kick her butt to the curb. If custody is going to be 50/50, then let her start doing her 50 NOW!!<P>Does she really think that your children are going to have a Rockwell family Christmas with the situation as it is now? Your children are young, but they know a lot more than she may think. They can feel the tension in the house. I think they will have a much happier holiday with both of you being happy, and right now your W is the only one happy. Life for her is a responsibility free blast right now. <P>Put her out. Give her a taste of reality and end this little fantasy world she is living in. <P>My H has told me that he so wanted me to put my foot down during this whole ordeal and make him ship up or out, because he couldn't do it on his own then. He didn't find the strength to do it until reality started seeping into his affair. And the reality was that he was basically the worst husband and father on record, and that he had taken up with an 18 yo psychopath because that was easier than living up to his responsibilities.

Rick,<P>Been there done that. <P>In my case, I started going out with my friends just to start to live again. I personally think this is very important when you seriously start considering Plan B. From what I've read and done myself, Plan B is normally initiated when the BS can no longer Plan A effectively because they have just had enough and they keenly understand that with Plan B the WS may never come back. So going out gives you a small insight to what your potential new life might be like. So as long as your doing this for yourself, then I say go for it. I think making your WS spouse stay home by forcing her to watch the children is a very bad idea. First of all you have described a person (WS) that is running away from the responsibilities of her former life (children included) and is actively and continually making questionable decisions. Would you let a babysitter with those qualities be responsible for your children. Secondly I would guess that your desired outcome keeping her away from other man or making her jealous would backfire in a big way. My crystal ball shows me a vision of you coming home from a night out to find her and the OM in your house, something that certainly would not help your cause. <P>So what's a good alternative? Start looking for good babysitters. You'll need lots of them in the future and you'll never have enough of them. If you get back together with you WS, you'll need babysitters so you can spend time together. If not, you'll need them to support your own new life. BTW - My daughters are 3 & 5. <P>The last thing to keep in mind about this subject is to be very careful how you conduct yourself while out on the town. Never go out alone and your ring (if you're still wearing it) will not stop the sharks and other predators from circling. They seem to sense the situation. I was shocked to find out how much of an aphrodisiac/or game some women find a husband and father who acts responsibly in the face of such a devastating situation.<P><BR>Good luck and happy Halloween!!!! <BR>

Thanks everyone for the insight/advice/opinions. I am somewhat torn between just continuing Plan A, modifying it, or saying she should leave. I'm probably just in a down phase now. I had good signs last week, and even though I didn't want it to go to my head, maybe it did.<P>I'll carefully watch the situation and Plan A for now, but things will start to evolve soon anyway, after she takes possession of the house. I'll see what that brings.