NO, I'm not giving up. But I just can't think of anything else I can do to help H feel even vaguely happy.<P>For a re-cap: As a result of my PAs that I committed, H felt it necessary to move away from the state altogether. He gave up a job that paid well and had room for advancement to management, he gave up school and friendships. We also spent a lot of money moving.<P>Now we live in my home state, near where I grew up. He is absolutely miserable here. I have never seen him so unhappy for so long. It is taking it's toll on him, on me and on our marriage. I think it's taking years off his life. He cannot find a job out here that is suitable, nor a school. In fact after last night, he decided to quit this new school. <P>He is 31. He feels he should be farther in life than where he is today and that he would be if it weren't for his ex-wife cheating and then me cheating. <P>He hates it here, I cannot tell you how much. It is hard for me not to take it personal at times since I am from here. I can't think of a single activity we have done around here that he has truly enjoyed. It's sad because there is so much to do here - he just won't participate - he gives a hundred reasons why he won't. It hurts.<P>I am of two minds - 1) he has every right to be as sad as he can be over the changes that have occurred in his life. Coddle him, let him wallow, agree everytime he calls the people here Rednecks, etc etc, every time he has something negative to say about the state. Stroke him when he expresses the opinion that his life is ruined.<P>Mindset 2) Encourage him to accept that as long as he harbors such resentment in his heart for this place (and also his wife) that he will never ever stand a fair chance at being happy. Realize that all of this is tem-por-ary. <P>How can someone intensely dislike a place and it's citizens as bad as he does but continue to maintain love for his wife who is in part a product of this place? I feel like he's saying it all indirectly to me.<P>I know I hurt him. I'm getting sick and tired of agreeing with his negativity, Pittsburgh is not suicideville! This can be a fun place, full of life and diversity, and love if you just give it a damned chance. Not everyone here is a bigoted alcoholic on welfare half the time and in the Union the other half. My friends are here, my family is here and I am from here. The river water is in my veins, and I LIKE IT HERE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>That said, I am also willing to relocate - and here is where I'm getting to the part that can be answered (i hope). Recently I started looking into going back on Active Duty in the Army as a means to escape this Pierogie - ridden place. So far I am having trouble passing the physical exam to get back in. Now I feel as though I have failed him again. <P>I don't even stop to think at this point wether I really want to do this or not - I'm sure I have misgivings in there somehwere - but just to see him breathe a sigh of relief, just to hear him say I did one thing right will be worth all the two-mile runs and freezing early morning PT sessions and all the long, hot days spent at the rifle ranges. I will do it. Hell at this point I WANT TO SUFFER. <P>I am not being sarcastic - I am dead serious. <P>When I was pregnant with my son, in the back of my mind I wished something terrible would happen to me in childbirth. I wanted my son to be unharmed, but as for me... well, whatever. I know I should want to be here for him and I DO but I had a death wish. Still do.<P>How can I handle this resentment he feels? How can I make things better? What the hell else in this world can I do to make him happy with life and with me??? AM I missing some big obvious thing here? Is my head up my *ss again? <P>We are both sick of living like this. Two people with the will sucked out of them all but for a little boy can only lean on each other so long.

Hey Khyra - sounds like you need a boost. I can totally relate to you and your H's situation. While in recovery, I told my H that I would do anything to make things "right" between us. We could move, get new jobs, get away from all the stress and pressure that we are currently under and just focus on us.<P>Well, we haven't moved, but my H lost his job. At first, I thought, this is good, this is my "payback" for having an A - I will have to support my H. . .we don't have kids, but it was like all this pressure on me all at once. Anyway, I felt like my H had supported me through withdrawl and all that nonsense, he even saved my life a couple of times - so I OWED it to him, to support him.<P>But, that's not it at all. Marriage is a give and take. . .One day I'm down and need a hand. . .the next it could be my H who is down and needs a hand. . .It's this whole dynamic being played everyday, you're a team.<P>Having said that, my H has always been in a field that was high-stress, numbers-driven, and he was overloaded by paperwork. He would come home from 9 hours of work, we'd have dinner, I'd go to sleep, he'd be up for another 4 hours doing paperwork. It was crazy. So, when he lost his job, I looked at it as an opportunity to change directions, make our lives simplier. Yes, I'm supporting him now, and it's kind of tough, but he decided to go back to school and get into the computer field. That means, no money from him, I support him for one year - until he finishes school. He's 36, and he felt like he should be further along in his life, too. But, now, he's starting to change that.<P>While he's been unemployed, he's gone on several interviews for jobs that were related to his old line of work, but we both decided - together - that we just couldn't see him doing that 10, 20 years from now. So, we looked at it like now is that time to make a change if you're going to do it.<P>Yes, I'm afraid, he's afraid, but heck, it's only a year. He could into his classes and decide that he doesn't like computer stuff, but sometimes you just have to trust that everything will work out for the best.<P>So, I guess I kind of understand where you're coming from. I feel like I need to be the strong one now - he was there for me, he needs me now, I've got to prove my love and stand by him. That's kind of the extreme, but I also look at it that this move will help us in the long run. I ended up finding a part-time job for my H in the computer field - it doesn't pay much, but now we ride into work together.<P>I don't know if that is good or not, but right now we're having fun commuting together. I guess we just reached a point where we had to take a big chance and just hope for the best - that everything will work out. It's kind of daunting knowing that my salary alone will pay all the bills. It's frightening, actually, just because I've never had to take care of anyone before - now I feel like I can't "drop the ball" I can't screw up anymore - too much is depending on me.<P>So, I think you are under a tremendous amount of pressure right now. You and your H are living in a new town - a town that he doesn't particularly like, but one that you love. I guess, you just need to ask him if he would like to move (if that's an option). I think, in away, though, both partners have to be willing to "do whatever it takes" to focus on your marriage. . .These other things are external, you can deal with the town, the jobs, the school - if you have a solid relationship.<P>Your son needs both of you, but more importantly, you need your H and he needs you. Sometimes, I feel like I just need to "suck it up" and make it through the day. Where I get into trouble is when I start thinking about the distant future - like what kind of retirement will we have with only one salary, what if my H never works again, what if we have kids and I never get to see them because I'm working so much.<P>I guess you just have to set priorities - what is the most important thing? For me, it's my relationship with God and my family. So, therefore, I deal with the everyday stress of paying a mortgage, etc. . .because I know that this is only temporary. My H's unemployment, going to school, it's only temporary.<P>So, I know how you feel - like you've got the world on your shoulders, but you shouldn't have to bear that alone. If your H doesn't like Pittsburgh - where would he like to live? You can always move further east and be our neighbors!!! I know you like where you live now, and maybe he'll grow to like it too. <P>I just think your H is feeling frustrated. For my H, he felt like a complete failure. He felt like he had lost me, then he lost his job, then he lost his profession. . .He really is starting over, and any change can be scary, you know that, right? Particularly as we get older, I think you start to feel overwhelmed - like what have you done in your life. . .does it have meaning.<P>It's times like these when I love being married. No, my H and I may not always agree, we have little spats here and there, but you have someone, right there, who is going throught his with you. I think, though, just like I had to pull myself out of my depression, my H has to keep his outlook on life positive.<P>Since it sounds like your H doesn't want to participate in things, meet new friends, start classes - I think he is either slightly depressed about the whole thing (the A, the move, the classes) or he is having a hard time feeling like he "fits in." This is your town, your home. He needs to feel like its his town and his home, too. I don't know how you get him to feel that way, but maybe he just needs some time to adjust. Maybe another move is in order. . .who knows.<P>I think marriage is a give and take. Sometimes you have to be a little more giving than the other person to get over a little hump in life. You like living in the new town, you are making strides to get yourself on the right track. . .I think your H just needs a little love and support right now. In my heart, I think it's just a temporary thing. . .But I think you both need to focus on each other first - then you can deal with the external.<P>I guess this really isn't any great advice, but I know what you're going through. . .it will pass, I'm sure of it. You have to know that you are doing the right thing, you're trying your hardest both with the two-mile runs (yuck) and your marriage. You have to be proud of yourself and how far you have come. . .it isn't an easy road, but (okay, here comes the pep talk ) but when life gives you lemons - make lemonade.<P>If I could go back in time and change the fact that I had an affair, I would in a heartbeat. But I can't change what happened in the past - neither can you. But, you can change what you do today and tomorrow. Today, it may mean accepting some of your H's negativity for what its worth - a reflection of maybe how he feels about HIS life. I don't think he is particularly<BR>happy right now for a number of reasons - and you can't really blame him for some of those reasons. But I think this is something you guys can work through - together - with open and honest communication.<P>Sometimes, you have to be willing to take the good with the bad to get at even better. It's like taking a step sideways, so you can take two steps forward tomorrow.<P>So, I hear you, but hang in there. (Especially those two mile runs .<BR>

Hi Kyra,<P> Hey, I'm originally from Pgh....watch those pierogie jokes!!!!!<BR> <BR> We moved because of the A and it's been 1yr....I've resented my H terribly because I really have not been happy here but in all reality , yes I've missed my friends etc. but it's ME that has been so unhappy. I think it's fallout from my H's affair and I've been taking it out on my H (he also hasn't made recovery easy, ....calling the OW etc) <P> As I said it's been a year and things just seem better, not my favorite place but I'm not so sure that's been my problem. I really think I was truly depressed , (sounds like your H is too) and blamed the town etc for EVERYTHING.<BR> Are you in counseling? Like someone else said ,can HE make the decision of where to live? .....he probably feels out of control,as I did, almost a "trapped " feeling......<P> I guess I didn't offer much advice but I understand where he's coming from....LU

Khyra:<P>Genuinely sorry to hear that things are so tough with you and your H right now. There's probably not a lot that anyone can say at this point, except that we all know how tough it can be, and we wish you luck in hanging in there.<P>As a fellow WS, I know that you can appreciate and understand that your H is probably experiencing an enormous amount of resentment and depression at the moment. From his perspective, his life has been turned upside-down and his career has been side-tracked through no fault of his own. <P>Now he finds himself in a town that he didn't choose, with people he doesn't know, no job, relying on his WS for all his support, etc. Life must look pretty bleak to him right now. Particularly the "no job" thing -- EVERY guy, enlightened or not, wants to be a breadwinner. Even if we're not the sole support for the family, we want to contribute -- it's part of being a man.<P>I'm sure that it's all this frustration that is prompting his expressed dismay with Pittsburgh, rather than any real dislike of the place or people. Just sounds like he's not really giving it a chance for reasons unrelated to the city itself. Maybe he is intending a little jab at you as well, trying to remind you that it's because of you that he has to be there, and how good a place could it be if it produced someone who hurt him so much? etc.<P>I know that all this just basically sucks. You're both unhappy right now, and it's hard to be patient and understanding as each of you deals with what happened between you. I guess all you can do is try to remember that he's been pretty patient with you through your As, and by helping him through this, you're able to give back to him the love and support he showed to you.<P>All of this being said, that doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything he says, or indulge each and every one of his mopey thoughts. <P>To pull back for a moment, life is about choices. You made one when you had an A, made another one when you stopped having them and decided to stay with your H, and you're dealing with the effect of those choices the best you can. He made a choice when he decided not to leave you, and another one when he agreed to move to Pittsburgh. Nobody held a gun to his head and demanded that he do either of those things. He's a free person, and his life can take any course that he wishes it to. If his life is "ruined" (and I don't think it is, 31 is still a relatively young man), it's not through anything that anyone's "done" to him, it's the result of choices that he's made.<P>Some stuff, of course, was beyond his control. He didn't choose for you (or his previous W) to have an A, and he did something he wouldn't otherwise have done (move to Pittsburgh) as a result. He didn't choose to feel this bad about you, your marriage, etc. <P>But, as SKM put it so well, you can't change the past, but you CAN control how you react to the past and how you act in the future. You two CAN build a life together, and it can be a rich one, full of happiness and joy. Whether it's in Pittsburgh or someplace else. It'll take both of you, though, and that means that at some point, he's going to have to stop "woe is me"-ing, get back up on the horse, etc.<P>I'm afraid I don't have much in the way of advice. Maybe a move IS warranted, but it sounds as though his unhappiness is coming from somewhere else, and you might not want to move your child AGAIN so soon, particularly since you have family around Pittsburgh that it would be good for him to be around. I'd try to stick it out a little more, see if he can find a job, see if it improves his mood a little if he does.<P>There may be little more that you can do for him than just to be there, let him vent, etc. For YOURSELF, though, Khyra, you should try to take care of yourself. The "death wish" talk is a little disturbing. You sound like a wonderful woman, and no matter how unhappy your H is, he would be devastated if you weren't around. So would your son. Try and do little things for yourself to make yourself happy and relieve the pressure a little bit. Post here as often as you need to. We'll all be here. Take care.

Khyra,<P>You have some very good advice. I am short on time this morning so I'll type fast and make it brief. I'll try to get back to you later.<P>First, do not go join the military. The reasons you stated are not sound and if you do join you will then jerk H all over the country. Not what he needs right now. He also doesn't need an absent W right now and neither does your baby.<P>Second, he is clearly depressed. Yes, it sort of has to do with the affair, but I suspect it is much more complex. Let me offer you some ideas. <P>a)He worked very hard to get the marriage back on track. He has swallowed alot to do this. There is a normal rebound affect when the crisis is over. <P>b) He changed jobs and moved. THose were his choices and when he made them he had no idea you would be joining him, if I recall correctly. It takes a minimum of 1 year for someone to adjust to a new place. You all are just entering this phase.<P>c) His career is not where he wants it. Simple solution look for better opportunities elsewhere. This isn't your fault or Pittsburgh's fault. It is just the way it is. He can change things.<P>d) You have a new baby. I suspect that sleep is a bit short around your house. Lack of sleep doesn't do anyones emotional state any good. Not yours (Join the military, what are you thinking? ) nor his( Pittsburgh sucks, life is no good). Well, life can be changed and he is the one to do it.<P>e) Yeah, the affairs really altered you lives. No doubt about that. However the alteration has already taken place. All that is left to decide is if you two (yeah both of you) will quit [censored] footing around and make these awful events into something wonderful. That just takes attitude on both of your parts.<P>f) Khyra, quit beating yourself up. If you are down he will be down. Why? Obvious, he loves you and would do anything for you. You must remember that. Smile more, enjoy him more, and don't worry about him reacting to you negatively as much.<P>g) Got to go to a meeting. Remember he is depressed and has some reasons, see if meds may not help.<P>Bye Khyra, keep you head up, I'll bet you are far prettier that way. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

SKM: So, it's my turn to give. You are right. I don't know that I ever have been much of a 'giver' - I like to think I've been at least sufficient in this area since my infidelity. I can indeed suck it up and just keep on going. Maybe it's childish and selfish, but I'll admit that I need kudos from him. I need to know that he has SOME faith in me. <P>What happens is that you do get going in your life, taking it day by day. Then all of a sudden, you stop and look at where you are, making the inevitible mistake of dwelling on where we might be today if it weren't for me. In the back of my mind, I question how much of the bad stuff happening today is a direct result of my actions a year ago. And even when I see little tiny loopholes where I can say, 'no, he made that choice of his own volition,' I am STILL responsible for so damned much of it that it's just a waste of time to try to see it otherwise. It's hard - the role of 'the victim' has always been much easier for me to play. Can't do that here.<P>Jason has told me that he does NOT hate it here, after he read my post. He intensely dislikes certain aspects of living here. Like the depressed job market, the general attitude of the people here, the traffic, and WHY we are here.<P><BR>Lu: Hello, fellow burgher! I'm sorry you guys had to move to. Thanks for describing things from your point of view - I think you hit on some pretty dominant aspects of how my H is feeling these days. <P>I treasure his smiles and his laughter so much more now as it seems to be becoming more and more rare.<P><BR>Taxi: Just to clarify a little, my H does have a job, but not much of one. A little good news tho: he recently found an opening advertised online for computer type work that sounded exctitng and do-able to him. He was supposed to be working on his resume today ... <P>"All of this being said, that doesn't mean that you have to agree with everything he says, or indulge each and every one of his mopey thoughts."<P>It hasn't been ALL of his mopedom, but quite a bit of it. After awhile I started getting angry with myself for not dealing with it in a more effective way. Of course, he said, "well, I just won't b*tch to you anymore." How can that be the answer? That would only drive us further apart. I never know how to respond to him when he does that. No matter what I say, I have lost.<P>I will try not to have a death wish. I don't walk around feeling like that all the time, just sometimes when things are overwhelmingly sad.<P>JL: I am going to direct Jason to read your post. You said many of the words I wanted to, but you phrased it in a way he will understand better. It's true - when I'm down he's down - and vicey versey. And I do need to stop focusing on trying so hard to ferret out any negative feelings he is having towards me. The fact that he told me that his love for me is not the same anymore makes it extremely scary for me to deal with him actually showong evidance of that. Oh well, taste of my own medicine, I guess. I'm not willing to accept that, tho, not at least without trying my very damnedest to get him to love me like he used to. I miss that.<P><BR>Thank you all for your kind words of wisdom. I want to write more but there is a little boy here who needs a bath ... Nekkid babies cheer anyone up, lol<P>Khyra <BR>

Khyra,<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The fact that he told me that his love for me is not the same anymore makes it extremely scary for me to deal with him actually showing evidance of that. Oh well, taste of my own medicine, I guess. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, a taste of your own medicine. HOWEVER!!!! <P>The fact that his love for you isn't the same any more is not all bad. <P>Here is why. <P>Have you notice how many people have been married, OH! say, 10 to 16 years and then they are here? Marriage is chillin out, they aren't in love anymore. One of them has an EA or PA and all h--- breaks loose.<P>Or one of them wakes up with a MLC and realizes that the love isn't the same as it used to be? Not those deep passions etc.<P>What does everyone tell them to do?? Rebuild that marriage and make it good again. Many of them do and they have that passion for each other again. Why? Well partly because they realize what they could of lost. It is a passion for the other person with the vantage point of what could be lost. Not the passion of young kids with hormones going and the world is their oyster.<P>Now, if I recall Jason has had a previous marriage, so when he met you there was not quite that youthful enthusiasm. But probably a deep attraction to you physically and emotionally. You sound a bit younger, probably had that youthful zeal for the marriage, but lost it. What did you do? You turned to OM for your satisfaction.<P>So where am I going with this. Well Khyra, you now know so much more about life, marriage, and the power you have to totally destroy another persons life, self-esteem, everything.<P>Jason, had about as much pain as one can be expected to endure. He sees this marriage differently now. It is something to constantly address instead of letting it flow. There is a level of deep uncertainty about whether you are here for the long haul.<P>So yes the marriage is different. It is different for both of you. However, it was going to change even if you didn't have an affair. You have just had a child. Short of infidelity nothing changes a marriage more than a child.<P>Children are wonderful things, they are the reason for marriage, they are a life goal in themselves. Yet, they coupled with money problems probably damage more marriage than just about anything. <P>The W feels stressed out with children, not appreciated if she stays home/ over worked if she works. <P>The H usually feels the is moving down the social ladder to join the dog as W focus most home attention on the children. He feel left out. <P>Communications deteriorate and so does the marriage. Why, because both H and W keep thinking it ought to be like it was when the got married. Because it isn't anymore, they begin to feel that the other doesn't love them, takes them for granted, doesn't need them, etc. <P>Before they know it the marriage is in big trouble and in many cases lost.<P>You and Jason have been through "sensitivity" training big time. If you two don't know anything else it is that honest, communications, love, and devotion to each other cannot take a backseat to life. You have seen what happens when it does. You two didn't have to live until you were married 15-20 years to find this out. So you are unlikely to waste many of those 15-20 years in a deteriorating marriage.<P>Khyra and Jason, you two don't have the marriage you could have had. However, you have the opportunity to have a much better marriage than most people have for much longer because you have learned so much. Use what you have learned and your new found sensitivity to each other to make a great marriage.<P>Yep, Khyra he doesn't feel the same, but neither do you. He knows he cannot really let up on working at the marriage. You know the same thing plus you know the depths of his love for you. These are things everyone needs to know in their marriage, but many don't ever find out until they have squandered 15-20 years of marriage.<P>So when you think of what you have done Khyra, you should have regrets. But you should also smile because you have learned so much and you now know how to use it.<P>If Jason reads this, I would remind him of the same thing. Yeah! the innocence of the marriage is gone. But it was going to go, perhaps not as dramatically or painfully, but it was going to go. <P>You two know so much. Rejoice in the knowledge, and use it to help each other be happy. You have a child now, maybe more in the future, there is much responsibility and pressure in this. However, you know enough not to take each other for granted.<P>That is a blessing Khyra. It really is. Think about it.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<P>I cannot tell you how sad and miserable I have been over the fact of our love for each other changing. You described it well - it was innocent, eager, fresh, maybe even niave, and definately idealistic. I knew I had found the one person in this whole world who has ever loved me so unconditionally, so openly and freely as he has. <P>Then, I went and destroyed it. I destroyed the heart that gave me that love.<P>Looks like tonight will be yet another soul-searching night, eh? Who the hell needs sleep? <P>But, and however, JL, you have been successful in helping me to begin changing my outlook on the evolution (more like mutation) of our relationship. You are right - change is inevitable. The newness and innocence wears off and you are left with the rawness of you and your mate. But you have helped me see tha we have not necessarily taken a step backwards - we have instead grown.<P>Good, cause we needed to (just not this way)<P>I do feel that I love my H deeper and more realistically than I did before. I am just surprised that this is not always expereiced as the 'high' I had imagined this kind of love would be. But it is strong, anchoring. Maybe this is what he means when he says he loves me differently - I'll have to ask him. I hope so. That would explain why it's not the cutsey-tootsie that it used to be. <P>Most ppl would look at this love issue I have and say, "girl, you are lucky to BE loved!" Truth is, I won't settle. Call me demanding or whatever you wish, but it would hurt too much to have to live in a love that once was great but has deteriorated into something more common and mediocre. I know we haven't sunk that low. <P>I am just impatient. I have all this affection inside me that I want to shower on my H. It hurts when I get lukewarm responses where I once got warm smiles and flirted back with. Sure, some of this is the result of time. But I own the portion I wrecked. Yet, I do not usually let this stop me from telling H how sexy I think he is, how capable, smart and strong he is. Even if he only says, 'yeah, yeah.' nowadays. I'll keep trying till I die. Can't help it!<P>Thanks once again for your thoughts, JL. They (along with that of many others here) are worth far more than 2 cents. <P>Khyra <p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited October 27, 2000).]

Thanks for you comments Khyra,<P>Show this to Jason, it was written for him as well as you. I am not blowing smoke here, you two know many things that people always wonder about as their marriage moves along.<P>Rejoice in your strength and commitment. You two have so much to be happy about.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS. Khyra, has it crossed your mind that perhaps the "Yeah Yeah" response is not against what you have said or done, but rather his uncertainty that he deserves it??

I am going to tell you what I told someone else who used to post here when he was frustrated with the slow progress of his wife's "recovery" from his infidelity:<P>Your husband has made the most incredibly huge statement of his love for you simply by being there. By not leaving you. By not getting a divorce. Never forget this, and never discount it. When you are feeling frustrated by his difficulty in enjoying where he is living, remember that he is there BECAUSE he loves you.<P>Put the positive spin on it - "act as if" it is the greatest gift he has ever given you - because it really is. And you will feel it. <P> I just had the oddest image... the clicking together of the heels of a pair of ruby slippers "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home ..." Tell yourself something often enough and you will eventually believe it. That's why "positive self-talk" is so important.<P>Now ... if I only had a brain ... <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>