Thank you to each and every one of you that took the time to respond to this post. I am sitting here-tears rolling down my face, head pounding, but glad you all took time to do this for me. I feel like I can write a book but will try to keep it short.<P>RESILIENT-I truly am a downer right now-but thanks for trying. I feel better today but will see how the day treats me. My heart is probably ok but it is an odd feeling. H and I have been doing great really. Except for me. I am the problem.<P>Catplay-Thanks for your kind words. I did read Patient Loves thread-before I posted my own. I can relate but I wasn't able to say anything positive to her for I am in the same boat. I will remember you and your caring words.<P>GodAlone-Thank you for the advice and thoughts! I know it all takes time. I think my trouble is I feel as though I am sliding quickly downhill-for no reason. Noting new has happened but here I am feeling worse than I have in months. I have had counseling-it was a mistake. The lady was nuts! <P>WilliamJ-I wish I could afford the Harleys! I can't :-( Our house payment is outrageous Thank you for the suggestion though-I truly appreciate it.<P>TimJ-I can't imagine me making it through all you went through. I am sure I would have cracked on #2. Maybe this is what I am afraid of-that something will rock my world again-this pain is just too much for me to handle. I thank you though for lending me a hand and your thoughts. You are truly appreicated.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

heartache,<P>I am so sorry to see that things are still at this point. I really have nothing to add to the great advice you have been given. However, I would like to provide you with a definition of forgiveness that I read on this forum just a few days ago. I wish I could cite the person who posted it but here goes:<P>"Forgiveness: Is giving up the right to hurt someone who has hurt you."<P>Please think about this for a moment. It doesn't say anything about what happened being right, or giving permission for that person to do it again. It simply says that you have decided not to use what they did to hurt them.<P>You are thinking. I haven't hurt my H. I'm a mess, how could I hurt him, I can't stop crying long enough to see him. But you see you are hurting your spouse, and yourself. Forgive him and forgive yourself Heartache.<P>Sorry, I cannot offer anything really good for you. But do take care of yourself.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

FaithHopeLove-Thanks for the insight and the recommendation of the book. I will have to read it. I know I don't want or deserve this type of pain-I am trying!<P>Snugglermi-Thanks for posting! Gosh-you sound incredible. I have gone shopping-so much so that our bank account scares me. That is the one thing I went way overboard on when this all began. I was always a saver-trying to help H earn to buy us a house. During that time-while I was saving-is when all this was happening. So now I blow money and don't care-but yet I really do (it isn't the real me). Thank you for all your kind words.<P>Lilly-thank you so much! I have been on Paxil since last January. A week and half ago I told the doctor I am feeling even worse and he said I could double the dose. I haven't done that. Woops-I just went back and see you are concerned with the anti-anxiety drugs. I have been on them for years. I think maybe I started them about 6 years ago.............along with counseling. I had some troubles after having my youngest child-kind of felt not in control of myself any more. That is why I began everything. Please send any info you have. <P>cOOker-Thank you! I did have counseling. I have been to the pastor of a local church, to another counseling thing put on at a church for this type thing (it was a downer) and then to a paid and referred cousler thru my doctor. She was terrible. Told me I was stuck-duh. That is why I went! And yes the contact had stopped when H told me-at least to the best of my knowledge.<P>Ragamuffin-thank you for sharing your time with me. It does help to know I am not alone-even though I would never want anyone to have to feel this pain. I would be lsot without MB.<P>ohmy_marie-PLesae send the mind exercise! And thanks for the insight. I wish I did feel they had hurt themselves. But it doesn't appear that way. Of course they are sorry. But as they run around able to get it out of their minds I sit with it on my mind The only hurt they will feel is if it leaks out into the community.<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Hi Heartache...<P>It sounds like your a tiny bit better, thats good. Keep talking to us, okay?<P>I want to tell you that when I have these episodes, just had one on the 17th ... my H said he wants to end us, I go thru great depression and anxiety. I have panic attacks and pace and cry. I feel out of control.<P>What has helped me a great deal, besides the wonderful ppl here at MB, is to think in terms of right now, living in the moment. I've found that when I start to think of the past or what may ly in the future the depression worsens along with the anxiety and panic attacks. I'm a pretty high strung person to being with, so I attribute my reaction to the very low periods to the other spectrum of my personality.<P>Making a conscious effort to live within the moment has really helped me. But I will say I still have pretty bad initial reactions to any bad news only regarding my H. <P>We went thru recovery 8+ yrs ago with my H's first A, I know how you're are feeling. Feels like you can't find any relief. Please don't let it consume you ... you're putting yourself thru pain you don't deserve.<P>I'm sorry your counseling experience wasn't good, but why don't you try and interview a couple more, I had to go thru a few bad apples before I found the right one. <P>Gosh, when I think of all the hell this puts a person thru (being so much in pain yet having to go thru counselor aft counselor ... in addition to all the other crappola) I wonder how I ever got here, stayed sane, you know?<P>I prayed for you last night Heartache, and I pray that you will find some peace within that will give you strength, patience and wisdom so you can have a degree of tranquility in your life.<P>Be well.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 27, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited October 27, 2000).]

Back again-I needed a bit of a break.<P>Chris-I will try my darndest to remember what you say about forgivness. I have read a few things on it and about 5 months or so ago I was actually almost forcing myself to say I had forgiven before I was ready. The hard part for me is I am not feeling anger about it all-I only feel pain. All the damage was just not worth it so why did they bother? Why for so long? Why? And why am I the only one hurting this way because of it? <P>Peppermint-I have followed much of your story and I am amazed at all you have been able to do! I will listen to the things you suggest and try to use it in my life. I love Phil McGraw. Just this week as H and I were watching Oprah I said I wished I had known of Phil a long time ago-but then I added it probably wouldn't have caught my attention-as then it wasn't needed. But he is a wonderful down to earth out right honest injun!<P>AnnieM-My gosh. And here I am all whiny while you get to deal with the OW and a child? I must say I am sure that would not be workable in my case. I always used to be a jealous person until my current H. He made me feel so secure and loved. He is one of those guys that always says he loves me, loves to snuggle, so on and so forth. So then the one guy-the only person I have ever totally trusted, has an affair. I still don't know why. I know it isn't really about me but them. But oh how it hurts. You sound like such a sweetheart-I hope your life turns out fantastic! Thanks<P>schizzo-H has been wonderful. But I am just not buying it-not all of it anyhow. Just again an hour ago he told me he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me. How can I say...............you can't ever make it up. I was happy. I was content. We were a team. What the hell happened? I will stay tuned in to Dr. Phil-he seems to set me straight all the time-he is good! I hope you get what you want out of life-thanks so much for writing-it all helps.<P>Sue-I have said time and again how I am lucky enough to have a remorseful H who wants to be with me. An H who didn't produce a child due to stupidty. An H who spends his days trying to make me feel secure again. I am lucky and I know it. But it won't erase the hurt. I just do not understand why I am falling over backwards when I ought to be out running in the wind. I am going to try more prayer and more hour at a time stuff. Pray for me please.<P>Just Learning-Thank you for the nice words. What you say is so very true. Tell me though-why am I so sad over the loss of a friend? I mean-obviously I liked her and cared for her. But if she were able to be a friend and sleep with my H for 2 years why am I still caring? I know that I am aching for the loss of her friendship and companionship but sheesh-I don't need a friend like that and I know it. I always cried when we wewnt to a sad movie or if I read a sad book-the OW never cried. I always thought that either she had no emotions or I had too many. I do cry easily so I thought I was wack-o. Maybe that should have told me something...........<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Resilient-Thank you so much for the prayers. I couldn't sleep last night-tossed and turned all nite long.<P>You know-I went through a period where I was thanking God for everything-every little thing that I saw good in my day or in my life. If it was sunny I would just say thank you God for this beatiful day. Or if I dropped something I would say whoa-thanks for not letting ti break (I clean houses for people-they don't like broken things). I have been down and out and I have not been saying my little thanks. I am going to get back to that and also I am going to try to live in the moment. It does make sense, If I can concentrate on now I won't have time to think of much else.<P>Thank you for once again taking time to cheer me. Keep praying-I know I need it.<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

heartache.<P>A good place to start is <A HREF="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/raymond.nimmo/." TARGET=_blank>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/raymond.nimmo/.</A> <BR>It has many good links for information, forums and e-mail lists.<P>I was glad I found this place and recognised that a lot of the stuff I was feeling and experiencing was due to my medication.<P>I am on paxil alone now and even though we are only 3 monnths into recovery, I am finding I am more in control of the emotional stuff going on. I am not obbsessing. Also recognising the physical stuff that happens because of it makes me feel better.<P>By the way, I am in Washington too. I am an avid hiker and when I was on the meds, I could not do it, the dizziness and vertigo made it impossible. This summer my H and I climbed Mt. Pilchuck to the very top to a lookout perched up there and saw all the way to Mt. St. Helens withought any problem.<P>Take a look and see what you think. I hope you get feeling better soon!<P>------------------<BR>Lilly

Heartache,<P>You asked: [quote]Tell me though-why am I so sad over the loss of a friend? I mean-obviously I liked her and cared for her. But if she were able to be a friend and sleep with my H for 2 years why am I still caring? I know that I am aching for the loss of her friendship and companionship but sheesh-I don't need a friend like that and I know it. I always cried when we wewnt to a sadmovie or if I read a sad book-the OW never cried. I always thought that either she had no emotions or I had too many. I do cry easily so I thought I was wack-o. Maybe that should have told me something...........<BR> [/quote}<P>The answer to your question is obvious from here but hard for you. You feel such loss for your friend because you have not found another friend and you need a friend.<P>You haven't allowed your H to be a friend (trouble with forgiveness)and you haven't developed any new friends (fear of betrayal).<P>But Heartache, you do need friends. That is very obvious so you just have to decide; can a new friend make me feel any worse than I feel right now? I'll bet the answer is no. <P>So it really isn't as much of a risk as you think to develop new friendships. In fact it really isn't much of a risk to forgive your H. You are hurting so bad now because you will not forgive. He cannot hurt you more, BUT he can help you.<P>Heartache, you aren't missing your friend so much as you are just missing friendship. That you can find, you just need to see how strong you really are and also realize that not everyone is like the OW.<P>Does this make any sense? I hope so.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Heartache:<P>The mind *exercises* appear on their own thread...you should see it on the board.<P>I think the title is something like, "Ohmy marie...I want those exercises," or something close to that.<P>Good Luck! You have lots, and lots of great advice on this thread! Peace, ~Marie

Thank you Lilly-I am heading there now. I remember now that you are also in Washington. I asked H if he knew where that Mt. Pilchuck was when I read that some time back but he doesn't-nor do I. I will go get that reading done tos ee what I might need to know. The down side is this-I tried before all this to get off the anti-anxiety meds and was unsuccessful. My anxiety attacks were of a fairly serious nature (to me). Thanks again.<P>Just Learning-I truly have looked for some new friends. I have a friend that I rode horse with but her kids are grown up and she and her H are in a class above what we are. They are very nice people-but we have such different lives. And I no longer own a horse so there went that Also-have another friend-and my H made the big mistake of telling her about what he did one nioght when he was at work and I was home and crying and he was concerned. I could have told him to never breathe a word of it to her as she would not be very accepting of the news. She wasn't and I felt it has caused a large gap in our friendship. I also feel our friendship is only on her time schedule. She bought my horse and it seems to me she tries to open my wounds as she always talks about who went riding my horse-yet she never ever invites me to go. Am I that sensitive that I made that up or does it sound as though she is not all that nice to you too? Seriously-I want to know.<P>ohmy_marie-I am going to find that thread after I read the other stuff from above. Tahnk you so much. What do you charge? That was my weak attempt at humor <P>Thank you all<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<P>"Life's A Dance<BR>You Learn As You Go.<BR>Sometimes You Lead<BR>Sometimes You Follow!<BR>Don't worry 'Bout What You Don't Know<BR>LIfe's A Dance <BR>You Learn As You Go."

Heartache,<P>I sense some smiling going on as you read these posts!!! Is it true? You are feeling better I can tell and I am so happy for you.<P>You were suffering mighty bad and you came to the right place, although most of us sound like drugged up psychos! ( just kidding, everybody). No, seriously this is the hot line to heaven and He hears all of us and our prayers.<P>You will be fine, let's go now and find that mind exercise, ok. I need that, asap!!!<P>Cathy

Heartache,<P>Mt. Pilchuck is in the middle of the state, between Rainer and Baker though not as high of course!<P>I'm not suggesting you stop either, just get informed and aware that these symptoms might be from it. If these are neccesary for you, you might need an increase to stop the symptoms, of course talk to your doctor.<P>My anxiety seemed to be worse on them, but I did not realize till I was off them for some time. I feel like me again. Except I still deal with withdrawal stuff.<P>You do sound better. Sometimes it helps just to let it all out doesn't it? It sounds like you have a supportive H too and that sure helps. Take care!<P>------------------<BR>Lilly