Here is my letter to my husband's lawyer with regard to the separation agreement I was sent back in the latter part of September <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dear <I>Mr. Lawyer</I>:<P>Apologies for the delay in my response to the package you sent to me on September XX, 2000. I have had to think and get advice regarding the content of the agreement. I find I am unable to agree to sign the document. I disagree with the content, intent and wording of virtually every point in the document.<P>Perhaps an understanding of my perspective will aid in your service to your client. I will briefly explain that perspective herein. <P>My husband, <I>terri's H</I>, has been unfaithful to me. He has committed adultery. However, I still believe in the marriage contract we signed and vows we spoke together over eleven years ago. While he has broken one of the provisions of said contract, I do not feel the necessity to end or void that contract. I still love my husband, and, if he were to be honest with you, he would tell you what he has told me throughout: he still cares deeply for me.<BR> <BR>I have done a great deal of research into marriage, infidelity and divorce. There is no valid reason why the marriage contract of <I>terri</I> and <I>terri's H</I> must or should be broken, particularly when one views the vast data available from many extremely successful marriage and family therapists. <P>I am being neither unrealistic nor unreasonable in my expectations - I know that without the influence of a third party, and under the guidance of a trained marriage professional with a proven record of success, the marriage would not just survive, but thrive again. What <B>is</B> unrealistic is the assumption that the marriage cannot be restored and both parties happy and satisfied without such an attempt being made. An eighteen month period <B>under the above conditions</B> would see the relationship vastly improved and both parties happy with the marriage once again.<BR> <BR>I am at a loss to understand why, when there are two people in the contractual relationship of marriage, it is even remotely appropriate that the wants of half of that partnership should take precedence over the wants of the other half. This particularly puzzles me in this case, when there has been no attempt to resolve the differences between the involved parties prior to seeking the dissolution of the partnership. <P>I am not an angry spouse seeking vengeance - I am a loving spouse seeking to find a way for both of us to find happiness and satisfaction within the contract of marriage into which both of us entered openly and willingly. <P>I hope I have given you enough information for you to understand why I am unwilling to sign the separation agreement you prepared at <I>terri's H's</I> request. Please feel free to contact me in writing should you need more clarification.<P>Sincerely, <BR>terri<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So, what do you all think? This IS my stance - standing up for the institution of marriage.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I><p>[This message has been edited by terri (edited October 29, 2000).]

Terri,<P>It's a wonderful letter.<P>And I would keep it for all time.<P>With that being said...<BR>...the cynical world of lawyers (that I've dealt with for 18+ months)... will sadly... just discard your letter... ... at best!<P>...at worst they will find a way to use it against you.<P>The legal system is designed to close it's eyes at adultery...<BR>...to ignore issue of any infidelity<BR>...and to side with the "wayward"...<P>...it's more than a sad fact of <I>today's</I> life.<P>"why, when there are two people in the contractual relationship of marriage, it is even remotely appropriate that the wants of half of that partnership should take precedence over the wants of the other half."...<BR>...unfortunately ...for lawyers ...it's how they make money... <P>If anything... the lawyer may go to the judge and simply state that you are unwilling to negotiate...<BR>...and that will result in your detriment.<P>I'm not saying... "don't fight...<BR>...the good fight..."<P>I'm just saying...<BR>...it isn't going to be your H's lawyer to come to your aid...<BR>...it will take only one person... your H!<P>Love to you friend...<P> <P>Jim

Terri,<BR>I think it is a great letter. I wish it would work, but I would hate for it to be used against you. Can you check into H's lawyers background to see if his situation indicates a willingness to support marriage, ie, is he married & is the wife a first wife, is he a church goer, what sort of charities/causes does he support?<P>My lawyer's reputation was as a barracuda in the courtroom, but she is also known as supporting marital reconciliation...to the point that even though I had 2 phone consultations, 1 in person consultation & she drew up the divorce papers, since I did not continue the divorce, I have never been charged any $$$. However I haven't closed the file (not doubts on my part, inertia ), so maybe the bill will come then.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Terri,<BR>Correct me if I am wrong but didn't you already send your H's lawyer some sort of communication stating virtually the same thing? <BR>I would have to agree with NSR, that the probability that it could be used against you is high. I think you should put as little as possible in writting. Especially when it comes to your H's lawyer! I would also say that should go for your H also, but at least your H has to give it to the lawyer before the lawyer can use it.<BR>I haven't been on for a week or so, so I am unsure as to whether there has been any contact to speak of between you and your H but I am going on the assumption that there hasn't been.<BR>With that being said, I can't help but wonder if you aren't trying to help something along a little. In other words, trying to obtain some kind of reaction out of your H by indirect means?<BR>If this could be true, Terri I must say I think you would be making a big mistake.<BR>I would definately reconsider sending this letter to the lawyer. You must remember that he is your H's lawyer and not yours!<BR>Just my opinion.<P>Genie

I am pretty confused - what in my letter could be used against me legally in any way? I don't see it at all - I was very careful to be as practical as possible.<P>Also, I am NOT expecting my husband's lawyer to come to my aid at all. I want him to know that I have no intention of signing anything that goes against what it is I have stated. If I cannot save my own marriage, perhaps I can create an awareness that marriage should be saved.<P>Yes, perhaps I am being defensive - I bounced this letter off of perhaps the two most cynical individuals I know (except for my husband, of course) and they both felt it was very clear, very straightforward and did not contain anything that could be used against me. I have simply stated that marriage is a contract and everything in the contract should be examined prior to anyone attempting to dissolve it. He&#0124;&#0124;, it is easier to dissolve a marriage than it is to dissolve a corporation, for goodness sake!!! Let's get in there and get marriage treated with at least as much respect as business contracts!!<P>Sorry if I am coming across as angry - I am not angry at anyone here, but angry that we seem to be sitting back and accepting what is handed out to us by the legal system rather than helping to put it back on track. That's what the Marriage Covenant movement is about - and I have joined. The 60's and 70's saw movements to make divorce easier - the new century needs to see movements to make marriage more respected as a covenant between adults.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Dear Terri,<BR>I think it os a great letter! But keep it somewhere safe. DO NOT DELIVER.<BR> I am not an attorney, but I do know that often the most innocent and well meant statement can be turned twisted and mangled til it sounds as one wants it to. <BR>The attorney needs no response at all from you. And after reading that mess he sent you to start with, he does not deserve any!<BR>Please do not give him the pleasure of a response from you. (((hugs))) cl

Terri,<P>I don't understand how this could be used against you either. It seems perfectly clear to me - and if you just ignore the communication from the lawyer, he could complain about that too. <P>I made it perfectly clear to my H's lawyers (both of them) and to mine that I did not believe that the marriage was irretrievably broken. It didn't have much effect as a practical matter, but the settlement agreement does specifically state for all time that my H was the one who claimed that.

Genie, I must have been posting at the same time you were. I did post a letter I'd written, but at the advice of people here at MB, and after it became clear the some of the problems in the agreement were due to my husband getting some pretty simple facts wrong, I didn't send it.<P>I guess this is one time where I must vehemently disagree with the sentiment that I not send it. I need to provide some kind of response - as Nellie points out, not responding could be used against me probably more readily.<P>I am not a lawyer, either, but I was going to be back when I was more ambitious. The simple fact is that NOTHING IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM WILL CHANGE IF WE SIT BACK AND SAY "THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED AGAINST US." As much as some of the stuff the radicals of the 60's were fighting for is stuff I disagree with, I have to respect their willingness to stand for what they believe in. It bothers me that I am seeing this attitude that because I don't want a divorce but he does that I must simply go along with it. I do realize I am treading a fine line, but I feel fully balanced and capable of walking it. And you know what? If what I say gets twisted into something I didn't mean, what is going to happen to me? I won't die, I won't lose my job, I won't lose anything (I don't HAVE anything). I will be able to live with my decisions. I can't say the same for my husband.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Terri,<P> You are sending this letter to the wrong person. If you want to<BR> make a statement and have some impact on society, then your<BR> husband's divorce attorney is NOT the right outlet for it. <P> This type of letter, without the personal information of course,<BR> should be rewritten as either an op-ed piece, or expanded into an<BR> article for a newspaper or magazine. Newsweek, for example, has a<BR> column devoted for just this sort of forum for people to express<BR> their opinions.<P> This letter is totally INAPPROPRIATE as a response to a preliminary<BR> divorce summons.<P> You are trying to present your "case" to him, as if he cared or had<BR> power or influence over this. If this proceeds into a divorce trial,<BR> then these are the type of arguments that YOUR lawyer would<BR> make and present at trial.<P> While you certainly DO have to reply to package he sent you, all you<BR> need to say is your first paragraph...<P> "Apologies for the delay in my response to the package you sent to<BR> me on September XX, 2000. I have had to think and get advice<BR> regarding the content of the agreement. I find I am unable to agree<BR> to sign the document. I disagree with the content, intent and<BR> wording of virtually every point in the document."<P> To be frank with you, this attorney doesn't care at all what YOUR<BR> perspective on this is, or about all the research you've done. It has<BR> absolutely nothing to do with his end of this matter. He was hired<BR> by your husband to start divorce proceedings, and that is what he is<BR> trying to do.<P> If you choose to fight the divorce to the end, more power to you.<BR> We all support you in that noble fight. But, this is NOT the way to<BR> go about it.<P> And, while you may not understand or agree, that one marriage<BR> partner can unilaterally decide to end the marriage...that is<BR> unfortunately true, as we've all so sadly found out. <P> You cannot force someone into wanting to make their marriage<BR> work, and into giving it one more try. Even if they are forced to go<BR> to counseling, as a prerequisite before allowing a divorce, it doesn't<BR> mean a thing. Not unless it is truly THEIR fervent hope and desire<BR> to work on the restoration of the marriage too. <P> Right or wrong...a restoration depends on TWO people's<BR> commitment to the marriage, while a divorce depends only on one<BR> partner's desire to end it. <P>You can work towards changing any and all the divorce laws, but ultimately you must accept the fact that you cannot legislate love, and or the desire for a reconciliation.<P> You have been given the SAME opinion by everyone...that should<BR> set off warning bells for you. You are too close to this to see how<BR> this reads, and WHY it is so inappropriate. You admit this much<BR> yourself.<P> Trust us...this is NOT the way to answer this package. There may be<BR> a time and a place for this letter later on...save it. Don't show your<BR> hand this early in the game.<P> You are a very smart woman. But, this is not a smart decision.<P> But, whatever you decide we will respect. We all wish you only the<BR> best. GOOD LUCK!<P> ~skye~<P><BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by skye (edited October 31, 2000).]

wow ... Skye, I can't remember but, are you a lawyer? And if you are, have you dealt with New York divorce law? I'm not being sarcastic - I really want to know.<P>First, however, I do need to address some misconceptions. This was NOT a preliminary divorce summons. This was a separation agreement that my husband asked the lawyer to prepare because I had said I would consider signing one. I am not assuming that my husband's lawyer really cares about what my perspective or position is, either. I believe that my husband's lawyer is your basic money hungry, sleazeball divorce attorney who cares nothing but that he will make more money because I am not going to sign the separation agreement.<P>To address NSR's post point by point:<P>"With that being said...<BR>...the cynical world of lawyers (that I've dealt with for 18+ months)... will sadly... just discard your letter... ... at best!"<P>I think not. The letter becomes part of a legal file and must be kept. I know something about lawyers, and I have dones quite a bit of research into the law as well.<P>"If anything... the lawyer may go to the judge and simply state that you are unwilling to negotiate...<BR>...and that will result in your detriment."<P>The lawyer will have to PROVE that I am unwilling to negotiate. I have not stated that I am unwilling to negotiate in any way - in fact I have offered a solution that is palatable to me and which does not create a hardship for my husband. Many states REQUIRE marital counseling in a reconciliation attempt prior to granting divorces. And the Marriage Covenant movement is increasing the awareness of attorneys and judges all over the country every day with regard to these issues.<P>Genie, to address something that you said:<BR>"With that being said, I can't help but wonder if you aren't trying to help something along a little. In other words, trying to obtain some kind of reaction out of your H by indirect means?"<P>I am really a bit insulted that you should believe that. What I write in this letter is pretty much the same stuff I have written to my husband. I don't need to manipulate the situation by writing a letter to a divorce attorney. <P>Folks, I do understand your concern, but I think that you have all misinterpreted my intent. I will sit on the letter for a while - IF I could actually AFFORD to hire an attorney, then my attorney would be making these responses. Unfortunately, unless I either want to go without electric, phone service, car insurance, gasoline or food, a lawyer is out.<P>Skye, your points regarding this going to court are well taken - and I will really reconsider based on that alone. But not on the basis of "the way things go." And not on this basis:<P>"And, while you may not understand or agree, that one marriage partner can unilaterally decide to end the marriage...that is unfortunately true, as we've all so sadly found out."<P>And, corruption exists at the highest levels of government, AND WILL UNTIL SOMEONE IS BRAVE ENOUGH TO STEP UP AND TELL THE EMPEROR THAT HE REALLY IS NAKED!!!! If I have to lose, I am going to lose MY way - and I'm going to make my point.<P>Bottom line: New York state is a FAULT state. Unless you have a court ordered or filed legal separation agreement and are separated under said agreement for 12 months after it is filed, the only way to get a divorce in New York state is by proving FAULT from the following: Adultery, OR Abandonment, OR Cruel and Inhuman Treatment. And for HIM to divorce ME, he would have to prove fault on MY part out of one of the above. There are a few other circumstances, mostly involving the incarceration for a period of more than I think two years of one of the marital partners. The only thing that he MIGHT be able to use is something that I believe is called "statutory abandonment" which is lack of intimacy for a period of one year or more. However, my understanding of this is that it is NOT a valid reason if both partners are in agreement. And, I am certainly in agreement on that issue... he has not wanted to be intimate with me and I have not wanted to be intimate with him ... for a very valid reason: why would I want to endanger my health by being intimate with the slug and all the people she's ever slept with and all the people they've ever slept with (and so on and on)? Yuck! I am certain that this was designed to give one spouse a way out when the other spouse has denied intimacy, but once a tool is put into the toolchest, you can never tell how it will be used.<P>He really has no grounds for divorce according to the law. His lawyer told him that no judge in New York State would force two people to stay married if they didn't want to be. When he told me this, I reminded him that only one of the two people don't want to be. And, since then, I've done a bit more research on divorce in NY, and it is simply NOT true that judges will always grant divorces. Judges in NY regularly deny divorces because of lack of legal grounds.<P>As for the belief that has been repeated on this thread and in others that, in Skye's words: "Right or wrong...a restoration depends on TWO people's commitment to the marriage, while a divorce depends only on one <BR>partner's desire to end it." I disagree. What have we all learned here at MB? What have we read in all the other marriage saving books we have all read? ONE PARTNER CAN SAVE A MARRIAGE. It happens all the time: A wayward spouse stays because of the children, but insists that there is nothing left. The hurt spouse does the best Plan A in the world and suddenly the WS realizes how wrong he/she has been. It happens all the time. It troubles me that people DENY what we have learned here in an effort to convince me that I am being unrealistic. A restoration depends on many factors - and one of the techniques advocated by most therapists in this field is to drag your feet when it comes to the actual divorce proceedings. So many times minds are changed before anything is finalized.<P>Let me ask you this: If I don't tell the lawyer what I am willing to do, but do tell him what I am unwilling to do, isn't that the same as indicating I am not willing to negotiate? And if I am essentially saying that I am unwilling to negotiate, wouldn't that look BAD for me? And wouldn't that be a bad thing, considering that I AM willing to negotiate as long as it includes some attempt at reconciliation without contact with the slug?<P>Finally, another thing that Skye said is very reflective of much of what I have heard here in many places: "You can work towards changing any and all the divorce laws, but ultimately you must accept the fact that you cannot legislate love, and or the desire for a reconciliation."<P>It is not so much the "divorce" issue that I wish to address here, but this statement: "ultimately you must accept..." My response to this is that there is no "must accept" in life. If I believed that because something was always done a certain way that it must always be done that way, even if I thought it was foolish and wrong, I would never do anything in life. Some of the world's greatest accomplishments have come about because someone disbelieved that he or she "must accept" something.<P>There are days when I don't have this idealism, but I am glad that I have not become cynical (and a quitter). Change only comes about when someone risks being hurt. As I pointed out earlier, I have nothing to lose here. I don't HAVE anything. There are no children to hurt, and I would be standing up for something I believe in. Again: If I have to lose, I will lose MY WAY!<P>Thank you all for the input. I don't think I will be posting for a few days, so if I don't respond, it is nothing personal.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

terri,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My response to this is that there is no "must accept" in life. If I believed that<BR>because something was always done a certain way that it must always be done that way, even if I thought it was foolish and wrong, I would never do anything in life. Some of the world's greatest accomplishments have come about because someone disbelieved that he or she "must accept" something.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>THANK YOU! You have articulated so well something that I have always believed, something that has nagged at me since this whole mess started. I am so grateful that I found this board if for no other reason than that simple paragraph.

Your words there have given me the kick I need to keep trying, I was about ready to give up, but as my H & I will be living togather anyway till the end of May, I might as well keep trying. Thanks. I love your quote at the end of your postings & good luck with your letter.<P><<What have we read in all the other marriage saving books we have all read? ONE PARTNER CAN SAVE A MARRIAGE. It happens all the time: A wayward spouse stays because of the children, but insists that there is nothing left. The hurt spouse does the best Plan A in the world and suddenly the WS realizes how wrong he/she has been. It happens all the time. It troubles me that people DENY what we have learned here in an effort to convince me that I am being unrealistic. A restoration depends on many factors - and one of the techniques advocated by most therapists in this field is to drag your feet when it comes to the actual divorce proceedings. So many times minds are changed before anything is finalized.<<<BR>

Ooh, don't admit to forgiving him in writing and give it to his attorney! If things don't work out, you are giving away your grounds and leverage for a settlement. I don't mean to sound mercenary, but these things could become very important later.

There is nothing to settle. We own NOTHING of value individually or together. He makes the same amount of money that I do, but has someone sharing expenses with him, so is better off financially because of that. I am not concerned that my "forgiving him" in writing will be an issue hurtful to me in anyway. Besides, he has SEVERAL letters from me that "admit" to forgiving him (BTW, when did offering forgiveness become a bad thing?) - the letter to the lawyer becomes only the most recent of the batch...<P>Just to let you all know, a friend of mine who is an attorney and who has been doing divorce mediation in the last couple of years, read this letter and thread and believes that my letter is very good, intelligent, and nothing that could be used against me. She also indicated that any lawyer or judge would be impressed by it.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Terri,<BR>I applaud your drive to save your marriage. You have obviously given it a lot of thought. I agree with you that it is much too easy to get a divorce, although it sounds like it is more difficult in New York. <P>Question?? Has anyone written their Congressman/Senators about this issue?? What is the Marriage covenant movement referred to in this post and how do I contact them?? <P>I wish you all the best.<BR>Jeff<p>[This message has been edited by Sailorman59 (edited November 03, 2000).]

Try these URL's:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.smartmarriages.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.smartmarriages.com/</A> <BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagemovement.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagemovement.org/</A> <P><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

terri, I've read about what you are going through with your husband and I commend you for the stance you're taking. Obviously, we all are trying to salvage our marriages, or we wouldn't be here, would we?<P>But how do we fight this (i.e. divorce, separation, our spouse's decision?)<P>I understand fighting for your marriage, but how can you orchestrate your spouse's decision/feelings? I feel that you (we) can only do so much to influence their thoughts; ultimately, their decisions are their own. Do we FORCE (mandate) them into attending counseling, when their mind is made up (especially after years of this behavior and no inclination toward reconciliation?) <P>I guess I have tried to backtrack and look truly into the reasons for wanting my own marriage, and my husband's willingness to work on it was one of the driving factors here. Without two partners willing, what can you truly do?

If it were not so easy to get a divorce, if people knew when they got married that divorce would entail a many year separation and many, many months of mandatory counseling, if divorce were not readily accepted by society, I think people would be less likely to take the easy route and jump to divorce. Most affairs would have ended during a mandatory multi-year separation. Maybe fewer OW's would go after married men if they knew it would be many years before they could possibly be divorced. I have been continually horrified by the number of divorces that I have seen on this board that took place in a matter of weeks. <P>It is far, far too easy to just run away from a marriage. It is far to easy to take the easy way out and divorce, and never have to explain your actions to your spouse or to a counselor or a judge. <P>Why would anyone have to analyze why they want the marriage. It is a no-brainer. It is like saying why would I want to breathe. Marriage is for life. Love is forever. <P>It is NOT true that everyone on this site gives a d*** about their marriage. Many, many people come here, and particularly to the divorced board, just to justify the fact that they want to leave or at the very least to give up. When I first came to this board over a year ago, most posters were committed to their marriage, but the balance seems to have shifted. There are many times when I have wondered why a poster has come to a site entitled marriage builders; why they didn't just go to a divorce support board if that is what they are looking for.

Nellie,<P>Your post upset me.I feel like all of us here have the right to say we have given our all to our marriages. But at some point it does take 2 to make a recovery. Even the Harleys awknowlege that, and have plan B for working on being a better person with or without our spouses.<P>How long should we wait? Are you saying forever? After our spouses have divorced us and remarried, we should still be waiting for them? We can never be happy again? I pray at some point I am able to truely move on. Yes, with or without my H. I can't beleive God will not help us to live a full life again because we married people who cannot recover with us. Yes, I did see marrige as for life, but my spouse did not. I think if I work hard enough at it maybe I can change when I need to. I hope you can too. Because we all desearve more than to be waiting for something that is gone and not coming back. There are some marriges that can not be saved. Maybe it is my fault for not seeing into the heart of my H and knowing that he would not have the forgiveness and strength nessecary to stay the course when times got rough. Maybe I am making excuses for myself and my bad choice.<BR>Lora

The quick answer, of course, is that you can make only your own decisions. Read my signature: I chose it BECAUSE of the responses I started getting here, the responses I started getting at work (even if I wasn't the one who brought up the subject!) and the responses I have been getting from my closest friends and family.<P>We each need to decide for ourselves how we do what we do. Nobody can make those decisions for us. I believe that there are many paths one can take. I am an analyzer whose decision making ability has often been afflicted with fear of making the wrong decision - I needed a guarantee of the outcome before I make the decision. So many times, that has left me sitting at the fork in the road afraid to take either path. When I got to more than two choices, it would often immobilize me completely! The reason I bring this up is because that is the progress I have made for myself since discovery of my husband's affair: I have gotten treatment for the depression that underlies my fears, and I have learned to make decisions again! I have done things in the past two years in my life separate from my marriage that I don't know that I would ever have done. Some of these things have been less rewarding than others, but I'm not sitting in a terrified mass at the crossroads anymore! I have consciously chosen the path I am taking with my marriage because of what I know to be true. Whether or not you are religious, you still have beliefs - they may not be spiritual in nature, but they are YOUR BELIEFS, and they are based on YOUR life experiences - the sum of which no other human being can ever duplicate, NOR truly empathize with. I make my decisions based on things that I can never possibly hope to explain to you all here - things that are instincts and not quite complete thoughts. I stopped trusting my instincts during his affair, because they were telling me something I didn't want to know. I have learned not to ignore them ever again. That is not to say that I will react based solely on my instincts where caution might be advisable, but I do allow my instincts to be a part of my decision making process.<P>For those who have had serious doubts about their marriages since before they actually made the legal and spiritual committment, and whose marriages have then been terrible, maybe "giving up" is the right thing to - because (in my not so humble opinion <B>IMNSHO</B>) there is every possibility the instincts you had back then were ones you should have listened to. For those of us who have good, solid times of happiness and loving relationships that we can look back on, maybe "giving up" is not such a good choice. We KNOW that we can be happy and that our relationships can thrive - yes, people change, but don't forget that sometimes those changes can be changed or undone.<P>Bottom line here is that if we go into marriage with the concept that "if it doesn't work out there's always divorce" then it will be a struggle to make that marriage successful. If, while we are in this situation, we primarily associate with people who were miserable during their marriages and have been very happy after divorce, we will hear from them the litany that we should just get it over with... that we are only prolonging our agony by "hanging on"... that we will heal more quickly if we just let go. I am not saying that this is not true - but it is THEIR PERSPECTIVE because it is, as are all "opinions," based on their own world view. Just the same, if you talk with people who have been through miserable times in their marriages but have waited and worked throught them and now have a happy relationship with the same spouse, you will hear "you just need to hang on during the rocky times" and "sometimes the only thing that kept us together was the fact that we had this legal committment to one another." Ask any elderly couple if their marriage was all sunshine and roses and they will LAUGH HYSTERICALLY at you!<P>Yes, I believe by making it harder to get divorced, that more people will make it work. But there is a caveat to that - if we are going to make it harder to divorce, we need to make it also harder to marry, we need to make sure people KNOW that it will be harder to divorce, we need to make sure people UNDERSTAND that the misconceptions we bring to the marriage are those things that undo us, and we need to unravel those misconceptions, we need to bring reality into marriage, <B>we need to make it clear that the "chemistry" will go away and you will be left with this human being who bites her nails, or snores, or is prone to periods of depression, or who interrupts when we are trying to speak, or who has bad teeth ...</B><P>THAT is what will save marriage. The understanding that there will be some times when you might wish you had never gotten married, times that you are so angry that you really have to distract yourself to keep from wishing bad things on him, times that you will wonder what it is that you ever saw in him! When we all understand that those things are NORMAL and transitive and happen to just about EVERYONE, then, perhaps, we will have true committment when we speak our vows. Religious beliefs will not guarantee this for us... my husband is a Catholic, and it is HE who has brought up divorce.<P>Well, I have monopolized the "soap box" for too long once again.<P>The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind... I'm not a huge Bob Dylan fan, but the man sure can write songs that mean something!<P>Wishing us all what is best for each of us. Sometimes that best is not a pleasant thing to climb to.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>