I had been doing real well Plan A'ing. My wife (WS) got an apartment two months ago - the separation, according to her, based on our marital problems (she needed time to sort things out). We were getting along fine and I thought we made some progress, but she never admitted the affair (just friends) and I didn't ask her about OM - intending to Plan A until it fizzled or until the guilt got too much for her to keep it secret any longer. Possibly it has ended. Well, we just had a big blowup on the phone. She called to say our 12 year old son is going trick or treating with the 12 year old OMD (OM is my wife's (former) best friend's husband). I said I don't want him to. She asked why? I said it's to protect him - OMD knows everything about the affair and I don't want our son being exposed to the details. W got all p***** about me calling it an affair and said there's no reason for the kids to not be together. OMW has forbade her daughter from being around my wife. My wife has always denied the affair. Discovery was almost as soon as it started back in June. She said she's not HAVING an affair. I said OK, well you HAD an affair - I don't care what you call it. She said it wasn't an affair. I said that you told me you were in love with him, you flew out of town with him in secret, lying to me and our son about where you were going, I saw you being affectionate with each other, you kept your communications secret, you moved out into your own apartment the same time he left his family - sounds like an affair to me. She got mad and said she wasn't gonna talk about any relationships with me, there was no affair. I asked are you concerned with what our son might hear? She said no because they're all lies. I said I think your lying to yourself. I said, OK, if you're not going to talk relationships, does this mean that there's no chance for us to reconcile? She said, no it doesn't mean that, I'm just not gonna talk with you right now about it. <P>I have a temptation to show her my hard evidence. We will never get anywhere until she admits it. Any advice? How do I break through this issue? She won't go to counseling "because there's no affair."<P>WAT<BR>********<BR>Time wounds all heels.<p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited October 30, 2000).]

Your wife is in a similar position as mine, except mine is still living with me, but planning on moving. Althought her and OM might be trying to fizzle it out, and pretend it was always nothing more than friends, she is still not able to admit outwardly that it was or is an affair. So like you, when I have to make a decision based on it having been an affair, my wife gets all defensive. Example, me saying OM can't ever enter my house. So believe me, I know how you feel, and I too have thought about presenting hard evidence. But as of yet, I've resisted, and am hoping that I don't have to, because that would be an LB and set things back. I don't know how you should handle the halloween thing, but if it were me, I would take your son yourself, since you are the one that looks after him anyway. This might result in a blowup....but I don't know your logistics, so you'd have to judge that. What about talking to OMD mother, and both of you jointly deciding on taking your kids alone? Just a crazy thought. This is so sensitive, I don't want to influence it in any way, so I'm just babbling.<P>Keep us posted and let us know what happens.

Hi Worthatry,<P>I've been through 12 year old boys 3 times. None of themt wanted to go with mom, dad or some girl. Anybody listening to the kid here? He probably wants to go out with his friends.<P>Tell your wife to quit managing her social life through him and let the boy have fun.<P>Take care.<P>

Oh boy...<P>I'm pretty much in the same boat, reverse situation --- my H is in denial about the EA.<P>Well, not quite. <P>He admitted that he's developed an emotional attachment to the OW. But he's in denial about it being an EA. <P>When I first found out I asked him to end it. The next day I e-mailed her and asked her to end it. I've also prohibited him from taking our daughter around the OW. And I've let his family and some of our friends know about it.<P>When last it was brought up, with our marriage counselor, his response was "we are separated, it's none of your business."<P>I don't know if it's ended and he's just trying to hurt me. Or if it's going on and he's just feeling really guilty.<P>Either way, he's finally getting into counselling for his anger. It's a start. But he's been a real jerk lately.<P>[And I STILL love him.]<P>~ootf<BR>

Worthatry,<P>Why don't you show her the hard evidence that you have. You are separated, she won't admit there is an affair and therefore won't go to counseling or work on marriage. What are you saving this for?<P>I know you fear it is a love buster, but so is the continual arguing about something you KNOW happened. So why not show her and get it over with. Then maybe once she has cooled down the two of you can work on getting back together.<P>As for the trick or treating, I like Hanora's response. I've had three go through the 12 stage and she is right. Listen to her and act accordingly.<P>Take care and God Bless,<P>JL