Ok, this goes to an ongoing conflict between H and I.<P>Last night H met us at my 10 yo's soccer practice. When we were leaving, my 11.5 yo asked if she could ride home with him. He said yes. As they were getting ready to get in the car, H jokingly (I thought) said "Ok, Marley, you're driving home", and laughed.<P>So they get home about 5 or 10 minutes after we did, and H comes in laughing and says Marley drove home. This is not the first time he has done this. It has happened before, and I calmly told him and her that this was NOT to happen again. So I got extremely angry. He tells me I'm nuts, I need to be in "in-house" treatment because I am unstable and he fears for my sanity and safety. Now I really blow up. This is something he says all the time when I become upset over something he feels is no big deal at all.<P>I shot back with, "I'm not your psycho 18 yo gf, I don't need to be institutionalized."<P>We then go to him screaming and demanding that I better sit down and talk to him right now, and while I'm at it I'd better hide the large knife on the counter so he is not further tempted to stick it up my "pompous little a**". Things continued to get more heated.<P>He says I'm overreacting. Marley was not in the driver's seat alone, she was on his lap steering and he worked the pedals, and they took back roads. <P>Sorry, still extremely irrespnsible on his part. What if they hit another car, a mailbox, a kid? What if a cop saw them and pulled them over? He says none of those things happened, so it doesn't matter. <P>WRONG!!!!! He is their stepfather, I feel I have the final say as to what can and cannot be done. I feel that he does not respect my authority as Marley and Melanie's mother. He consistently will override my decisions and rules when he has them in his care and say literally, "F*** Mom. She's not here, and she doesn't know what she's talking about anyway. What Mom doesn't know won't get you guys in trouble." I'm sorry, but I am trying to teach my children that they follow my rules and the laws of the state whether or not I am there, and even if they won't get caught.<P>He lives life under the thinking that as long as he doesn't get caught, it doesn't matter if what he does is wrong, or for that matter illegal. That was his thinking in his A.<P>Finally, I apologized for as he says "overreacting" basically to stop the fight. This was my third attempt to stop it. I went outside two times to give us both a cooling down period, but each time he would either stick his head outside to throw another jab, or start again as soon as I came back in.<P>Later he's "lonely" and wants me to come and hold him. I'm sory, I know I was probably wrong at this point, but I was too darn p***ed off to really care if he was lonely. I'm sick and tired of hearing how tired he is at being in "trouble" every night. If he doesn't want to be in "trouble", grow the F up and act like an adult rather than a spoiled adolescent with the mouth of a sailor. (No offense to any sailors) lol<P>So, was I out of line, or did I overreact?

Well, I don't think you were overreacting, but there were some lovebusters thrown in there, that didn't help. I, whether we are talking about a stepfather or father, would not allow them to let my child drive, period. It was not safe, the way it was done. So, I would, if I were you, apologize for the lovebusting things that you said, and as politely as you can, tell him that the children can no longer go with him in a vehicle without you and inform your kids. Extreme, probably, but it is your children's safety.<P>I hope other people have better suggestions than mine!

Pam,<BR>I've got kids 12 & 15. I'll give you a thumbnail sketch of how we're handling driving. Legal first, in our state a 14 year old can get 1st a Learning Permit--drives with parent or adult in car for 6 months, after which they can get a Restricted Permit to drive alone 7 am to 8 pm. Permanent License at 16.<P>At 13 we allowed our oldest to drive in large, vacant parking lots, sitting in the driver's seat with parent in next seat. We didn't allow her to get any type of license until she took Driver's Ed, then got Learners, just got Restricted. The 12 year old begs to drive, but we'll follow the precedent we set with the older one.<P>Now, your H acted in a very dangerous manner. Not ony was it illegal for the kid to drive, it was life-threatening to have her on his lap. If something had gone wrong, she would have been crushed between him and the steering wheel and likely would be severly injured or died.<P>An *adult* and I realize he DOES NOT QUALIFY!!!! does not put a kid in danger, he does not call another adult "unstable" or threaten physical violence when his idiocy is pointed out, and furthermore, a responsible adult does not teach a kid it is ok to do something illegal as long as you don't get caught.<P>I do not think you were out of line or overreacted, I think you went too easy on him personally. This isn't just you he's dicking with, he endangered your child in a way you have specifically asked him not to.<P>You know, at least in my opinion, this doesn't have anything to do with lovebusting, sure, maybe you could have stayed calmer, but he did something WRONG, ILLEGAL and DANGEROUS with your CHILD, then accused you of being nuts, talked about sticking you with a knife...then wanted sex?<P>Ick. <P>For sure, at the very least as Rick says, the kids don't get to go with him alone.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

No you did not over-react, but your style of communicating with each other may not be effective.<P>Actually it may be impossible to communicate with your H if he truly believes he can live by his own set of rules and it is OK to encourage kids to do the same while at the same time disrespecting someone with a different opinion.<P>I had to comment, though because my H loves adventure, but is usually very safe in all he does. He wears a bike helmet and demands kids to do the same, etc...<P>Well during his affair (4 weeks) and before discovery, he went maybe 1/2 mile away with daughter, then 12. I don't think he left the house with the intention of doing what he did, but he ended up asking the 12 year old to drive a vehical home...through town.<P>Out my kitchen window I see her drive into my drive-way by herself. My H was following in the other car that was left...oh, maybe they went to jump it, can't remember.<P>My jaw just about hit the floor and you bet I had some pretty strong words for H. He saw it as no big deal. I thought it was EXTREMELY out of character for him, and it was. I guess it was part of the fog thing at the time.

<BR>PamO,<P>I don't know how new your car is, but those airbag warnings are for real. If the driver's side airbag deployed, your daughter would be dead right now. What he did is NOT acceptable, because (with or without airbags) it was dangerous.<P>I agree with FHL's point about communicating a little better.<P>Bystander

Pam,<BR>I'm settled down a bit.<P>Re: the kid driving. I'm bothered that you had already said this is unacceptable, yet he did it anyway. However, with a child begging, it is easy for any of us to make a thoughtless decision. And dads like to let their kids drive--it just needs to be with good judgement, under safe conditions, and in this case, with your ok since you have forbidden it.<P>BUT, when confronted, he didn't say, "ok, I won't do that again" or "I'd like to teach her to drive, under what conditions would this be acceptable to you". He defended his actions, continually shows a lack of respect for you and your wishes and the law in front of your children with inappropriate language, then calls you unstable, and this time threatened you with a knife. These are not things you can brush off.<BR>

<B>Dear Pam O </B><P>Your story hit a mixture of feelings, thoughts and memories for me. Some fond, and some not so fond.<P>First of all, please understand that I respect your position on this all, and it is merely my opinion.<P>I will start with the positives...<P>When I was a little girl, I too used to sit in my Daddy's lap and steer the car. These were marvelous bonding times with my Dad. They included nothing but him and I. They are fond memories of times less complicated and of great fun and adventure. Oh how many times in the last 20 months I would have loved to be that little girl again, feeling safe and secure in my Daddy's lap. Confident that while I was on this adventure with him, he would keep me safe.<P>So, as you can probably figure out by now, my opinion is not going to be the popular one.<P>Technically, yes what your husband did was against the law. It indeed could be a very dangerous situation. I am sure that he was most likely watching very carefully as to what was going on around them, and hand his hands ready and able to take the steering wheel and command. Does that make it right or legal? No. I do believe it is something that many parents, particularly fathers do with their children.<P>As far as your fears, they are indeed valid. Isn't life full of dangerous situations and ones that can hurt? Unfortunately there are many of those lurking about.<P>The police catching him doing this with your daughter would have presented another problem. How severe of a problem, would have depended on the officer that stopped them. I believe at the very most it probably would have gotten him a ticket. That would have been his problem, gone on your husband's record. The fine certainly could have impacted your financial comfort. That although is probably the most that would have happened with the legal aspect of it.<P>Is he teaching your daughter that it is all right to break the law as long as you don't get caught? I am not sure on that one, and really have no strong opinion on that. I believe it probably depends on what else he teaches them in the day to day routine. Like honesty, trust, loyalty and all the other very valuable lesson we try and instill in our children.<P>Now, for the not so fond memories. My marriage to my husband is my second. I came into this marriage with two children from a previous marriage. My husband had never been married before and had no children of his own. I had a son and a daughter. <P>My husband never really bonded with my son. He was only five and it certainly was not my sons fault. It was a short coming on my husband's part. He could have easily had my son in his back pocket and been the Super Man in my sons eyes. Sadly my husband never did the things like your husband has just done with your daughter.<P>He bonded with my daughter who was 2 1/2 at the time of our marriage. My daughter has and had extreme emotional problems, so even though he got close to her, all of us in the family could only get so close, she bit back at each and every one of us, with a vengeance. So, consequently she never got to experience these special things with my husband either.<P>About two years after we were married, we had <B>"Our" or "His"</B> daughter. She was a very special child and always the angelic one and peace maker in our family. She has shared the exact experience your daughter just had with your husband and many more.<P>My point in all of this is that although you don't approve, you I think are missing the point that your husband is treating your children like they are one of his own. I envy you, and prayed and wished so many times that my husband would have done things like that with my other two children. <P>Now, in retrospect, my husband sees all the things that he and we did wrong with the children. The sad thing is we can't take one second back of the past. We can't change it and make my children from my first marriage have those wonderful fond memories.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>WRONG!!!!! He is their stepfather, I feel I have the final say as to what can and cannot be done. I feel that he does not respect my authority as Marley and Melanie's mother. He consistently will override my decisions and rules when he has them in his care and say literally, "F*** Mom. She's not here, and she doesn't know what she's talking about anyway. What Mom doesn't know won't get you guys in trouble." I'm sorry, but I am trying to teach my children that they follow my rules and the laws of the state whether or not I am there, and even if they won't get caught.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe instead of looking at it in that exact aspect, maybe you can look at it as Daddies always have little secrets from Mommies, or special things only they do with their children. It isn't F*** Mom, but rather Mom won't approve but geeze isn't this fun? So they do it anyway.<P>Another point I guess I want to make is that, you married your husband and took him into your existing family. Don't you truly want to be a whole family? I know while my children were all young I felt like I was a single Mom of two and shared a child with my spouse. It really stunk for all concerned.<P>We allowed it to occur for one not to step on my ex-husbands toes, and because I feel that it was easier for my husband to say..."your damn kids, did this." Or "do whatever, their your kids". Honestly Pam, it stopped us from being a complete and whole family. <P>My advise is to embrace the positives of this. I know it's hard and your livid about the whole thing right now. I even understand why you are. I wonder though how on earth you are going to have a complete and whole marriage if you keep your husband as on outsider and don't brain storm together as a whole on raising these precious children of yours?<P>As far as the argument that ensued. It sounds like a dandy and full of tons of love busters from both sides. I have been in many such arguments myself with my husband. They were awful, hurtful and did damage to us and the children. They also showed the kids that instead of being a united front of stability that instead we were anything but. How can children feel possibly safe and secure in that kind of environment? I imagine too, that your daughter probably felt a bit of guilt at being what she saw as the cause of the disagreement between you and your husband. Even though of course she really bares no fault at all.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Later he's "lonely" and wants me to come and hold him. I'm sorry, I know I was probably wrong at this point, but I was too darn p***ed off to really care if he was lonely. I'm sick and tired of hearing how tired he is at being in "trouble" every night. If he doesn't want to be in "trouble", grow the F up and act like an adult rather than a spoiled adolescent with the mouth of a sailor. (No offense to any sailors) lol<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You weren't wrong. There are no rights and wrongs to this. Sometimes though there are good and bad choices. You were merely reacting to how you were feeling. That is okay and it is done and over. Can't change it. The fact though that he wanted you to hold him is a huge positive, many couples can't do that after a heated argument, and I think if one can swallow past it all, it goes a long way to healing.<P>By the way you are not unstable. Your husband's jab was cruel and uncalled for. You can't control what comes out of his mouth or how he acts. You can only control yourself. <P>As far as men growing up????? (Now don't bash me here guys! ) I don't think they ever entirely grow up. Do you? I wonder if that is not part of what we find so charming about them? After all, as soon as we birth a child a part of us grows up immediately and never seems to return. (At least for most of us women.) Maybe we envy them just a little as well, and that's why we get so blasted angry when their child like behavior effects us, and they defy us?<P>Okay, as usual I have talked on way to much. Please know that I am not trying to negate your feelings and thoughts. Merely give you a possible different perspective and maybe a few of the positive aspects of it all.<P>Again in my humble opinion <B> The most important thing is, to try and achieve the task of being a complete and whole family! Don't learn the lessons too late like my beloved husband and I did!</B> My children from my first marriage are now grown adult children. No time left to build wonderful memories or happy times in their childhoods.<P>Prayers for you and your family. I hope I didn't anger you or offend you? <P>Big {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Pam O}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>------------------<BR><B>Pray and praise the Lord, let Him handle it. All things are possible with God. Even healing our marriages. <P>Samantha</B><BR><p>[This message has been edited by it's me Samantha (edited November 01, 2000).]

Thank you all so much for your responses. We've calmed down quite a bit. Haven't solved anything, just the usual let's pretend it didn't happen. Well, that's apparently what we did the first two times this happened. He swears up and down I never said that I didn't want it done again. Believe me, I did. When it comes to the kids and something I deem unsafe, I definitely let it be known. But anyway, I'm a liar and unstable. lol<P>The car they were driving is about a year or so old, and a RENTAL that his job pulled some strings to get for him because he gave his grandmother our BRAND NEW TOWN CAR that we haven't made a payment on to take OUT OF STATE AGAINST MY WISHES, and continued to let her drive after her return because the car she lent us in return was a DEATHTRAP and is now in the shop. So had there been any problems, the consequences would have been far reaching. <P>I have those memories of driving on my dad's lap too. I was probably 4 or 5. H brought this up too. Those are probably some of the only good memories I have of my father. I think one of the things that sent me over the edge on this one is it was a huge emotional trigger for me that strangely enough I had just discussed with my therapist. Dad is a raging alcoholic. His wife is a functioning alcoholic. Any time I ever spent with him as a child included a bar (I am an awesome pinball player because of this experience, lol). Well, in a way I guess dad was ahead of his time when it comes to appointing designated drivers. He picked me. I remember driving home at night, dad falling down drunk, me scared out of my mind because they're like uh-oh cop car. I was sure I was going to go to jail because I'm driving my alcoholic father home. <P>I tried when I calmed down to explain this to my H as to why I in part reacted as I did and feel the way I do. His response a few minutes later was, "By the way your little story to make me feel sorry for you and take the spotlight off what an a**hole you are didn't work. I don't believe you at all."<P>Now he wonders why I don't confide in him. Probably because this is the reaction I will get and it will later be thrown in my face in an argument. Duh.<P>The more I talk about this man, the more I wonder what in the heck I'm doing with him.

it's me Samantha, just wanted to tell you that your post really got to me. But first...I too rode on dad's lap when I was a little girl and got to steer the car. Must be a dad thing huh? But, it was just on the long logging road to our cabin and we didn't have air bags in those days. Geez, that was 30 years ago so things have changed. <P>But, back to (it's me Samantha), your post really struck me because my kids also have a step dad. We don't have kids together though. When we first started out he was more like your husband. They were "my" kids so I did all of the work in regards to them and I made all of the decisions. BUT, he also had two kids that were younger then mine and required more work then mine did because of their ages. When they came to our home I let him parent his kids all by himself. I guess I was "showing" him how I felt and he didn't like it one bit. Then I sat down with him and we discussed our entire family situation and how if we were truly going to be a family we'd have to treat it like one. That was 3-4 years ago and it's totally different. The bond he has developed with my kids is incredible and we do treat all 4 of "our" kids the same. It's funny because tonight I happen to be going to dinner with a girlfriend and he'll be home alone with my kids. He says to me "I'll just feed them their trick or treat candy for dinner, we'll be fine". He was joking of course. But he's also going to take daughter in for her haircut. Now I'm getting off course, but what I'm saying is that I think second families can easily take the course yours did if they aren't really careful. Your husband realizes that now so hopefully they can have a great "adult" relationship with him.<P>B