Hi All,<P>I have to make a huge decision and don't know what to do.<P>As I mentioned on Jo's update thread, I am having some major problems with my 18yo son. In a nutshell, living with all of this stress is getting to him in a big way. I talked to H about the problems he's having and H came over and gave him an ultimatum...without my permission. He basically told him to straighted up or leave. I have not seen son since. He won't talk to me when I call him at work.<P>He cried for an hour and a half during his talk with dad. After dad left he got out his scrapbook I made him, cleaned his room (now that scares me the most) packed up his clothes, blanket...and left. His scrapbook with a letter from dad for his 18th birthday were sitting on his bed.<P>He asked my H to divorce me so he wouldn't have to live like this anymore. At lease he'd know what was happening. He has told me there is more to this story...why won't I tell him everything. So far, my gut has been telling me not to tell son about the other women, but damn it, he knows in his gut that there is more...I wonder if he can handle this sort of information right now.<P>I tried to get him to counseling, he ditched it...won't go.<P>Everyone tells me to leave him alone, that he is an average 18yo blowing off steam, but they don't see the haunted look in his eyes that I do. This has destroyed him. <P>Even my counselor thinks I should tell him about the infidelity, but I risk destroying any relationship he may have with his father in the future if I do that. He will hate him. Right now, I'm the safe person for him to be angry with because I'm consistent and he knows I am here for him.<P>I also don't want him to tell my two younger (13 & 14 yo's) about the infidelity. <P>But I remember all too well how I felt when I was at the stage where I knew something really bad was up with my husband and I was being lied to. It was much much worse than hearing the truth.<P>Anyone out there with teens that have handled this one? How did your kids handle the truth? Were they relieved to hear it, or did it destroy their relationship with the parent that did the cheating?<P>Also, H would never, ever forgive me if I told son. Right now, son is my #1 focus, so I don't really care what H thinks...I'll do what I think is right.<P>As usual...confusion reigns.<P>Thanks for getting through this one...<P>allison

My D is 4. When she is old enought to understand I will be honest and tell her why her mommy destroyed her family. Not to punish my STBX but hopefully to show her that she can have a successful family and not hurt her children.<P>Bottom line is I won't lie to her when she gets to be 15 or 16.<P>Bill

Hi Az,<P> When my H was leaving to go with OW I told my kids the truth, they were 21,18,14 and 8, ........they knew something was terribly wrong and were upset with my H when they did finally find out. <P> I honestly think kids need the TRUTH and they need someone who they can trust to be honest with them. When my H came back they were still upset with him but now 1yr. later, the relationships are repaired..... In my view there is nothing worse than being deceived (as the betrayeds all know).....at 18 your so is old enough to know what is really going on (only my opinion, of course).......LU

Allison,<P>Your kids are old enough to know the truth. I think that they will resent you for not telling them when they find out later. And they will find out, the truth always has a way of coming out even when we don't want it to.<P> When my husband was seeing OW and our 16 yr old D found out she was very upset with her dad. She wouldn't talk to him for a long time. She wouldn't go to counciling. I was seeing a councilor for myself so we talked alot about how to help her. Basicly she had to learn to forgive him. Not for him, but for herself. I'm sure she will never see her dad the same way as long as she lives, but she is not the angry person she once was.<P> Our husbands will pay a high price for their infidelity. I think that my H already knows what he has lost with his kids. That is something that they have to live with.<P> You can help your son get over this by being honest, and helping him deal with the reality of the situation. My D would always tell me to go and get a divorce so we could be done with him and move on. I think that kids need some kind of closure to the situation just as we do. That way they know what to expect in the future. <P>We were seperated for a year before we decided to work on our marriage. At first our D did not want me to try and work things out with him. Even after he moved back home we had many rough months with her being mad at him again. But things are finally getting back to normal after 6 months of recovery.<P>I really hope that everything will work out for you and your kids. They do need a parent that they can count on and trust. They will have to resolve their feelings about what their dad has done themselves, and it takes alot of time.<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you<P>SL

So, If I decide to do this, do I tell my husband first? I don't want him to be blindsighted.<P>To be honest, I selfishly feel like if I tell the kids, it will be the end of my marriage. <BR>I know they, at least the oldest, need to know...I appreciate your advice and sharing of experiences. I just don't want to do this for the wrong reasons...bitterness, getting back at H.<P>Should I discuss it with H first I guess is my ?<P>allison

My 14 year old said once that there are few things worse that a parent can do than lie to their children.<P>

Allison,<P>I am new to this forum but not new to what you are going through. My H left me the first time in March returned for 8 weeks last May then left again because his A had never been ended.<P>I have two daughters (15 & 17). I have been totally honest with them from day one. I had to tell them because when I met them from school they could tell I was deeply upset and they thought their grandmother had died.<P>I told them as much as I knew. I am glad that I did for two reasons. Firstly, if you don't tell them someone else probably will and they are unlikely to do it as lovingly and gently as you can do it. Secondly, they need to know the truth so that they don't blame their father's departure on something they think they may have done.<P>When my H came to collect his things he told the girls he had been unhappy for a long time and that was why he was leaving. I told to get right back in there and tell them about the OW, he was surprised that they already knew but did not get angry with me. I explained that it was best that he admitted the truth now and didn't have them confront him with the lie at a later time.<P>Everyone is an individual and will react differently. They have refused to have anything to do with her but have forgiven their father and still enjoy spending time with him. They never discuss his living arrangements with him but just try and enjoy there time together. Any hurt and pain they feel is reserved for me. <P>I think they are happier knowing the truth. Just not happy about the situation. Perhaps they don't open up to him fully any more because they feel that their triumphs and tragedies are not just being shared with him but with another person who certainly did not put their feelings first when she encouraged their Dad to leave.<P>Only you know your children best and know what is right, but my instinct would be to tell them before someone else does.<P>Hope

Allison,<P>I really don't know your story. Is your H still living at home? Is he still involved with OW? Does he want a divorce, or is he still asking for time to figure out what he wants?<P>If it were me I would tell H that the kids are having a hard time and really need to know whats going on to recover. Tell him that you are not going to give out all the gory details but that you are going to explain that there is another woman involved. He is going to have to deal with all the personal questions himself, because they will ask him.<P>For me I found that all my begging and pleading to save our marriage did nothing. Once I finally just concentrated on myself and told H that I didn't want a divorce, but that I couldn't live like this anymore and neither could the kids, things started to change. I told him that if he needed divorce to be happy or he thought that his 'friend' was going to make him happy thats what he should do. I just started to live my life for me.<P>The kids and I got to a some what normal place in our lives, and then he decided to work on the marriage.<P>I'm sure he'll not be happy about you wanting to tell the kids the truth. Maybe once they know, it will help him to see how destructive his behavior is to everyone involved. I know my H now regrets all the pain that he caused by getting involved with someone else.<P>Just my opinion, hope it helps.<P>SL<p>[This message has been edited by Still_Learning (edited November 04, 2000).]

How is telling your children the truth wrong? They probably already know, or at least parts of it. Children pick up on these things. Due to the circumstances with your oldest, I think you should tell them all. I would invite your husband to tell the children together with you and let him know that if he did not want to participate, that you would be letting them know yourself. Just treat it matter of fact (which it is, although painful) and don't let anyone ruffle you. <P>There is nothing wrong with being open and honest, as long as you are respectful and don't waiver from the facts. I am sure your husband will not appreciate it, but keeping secrets is not a healthy thing, IMHO. Inviting him to tell it with you will let him word it better, if he is concerned.<P>I would also apologize to your children for not telling them sooner and keep it at that.<P>I hope this helps!

Az allison, Our son is 10 and he kept asking what was going on. My H and I were very reluctant to tell him everything, so we just told him that we were having a few adult problems. We didn`t know he would sit on the steps and listin to us talk or argue which ever we were doing at that time. When we found out that he obviously knew more than we thought we sat down together and told him the truth. My H told him that he had done something to hurt me very badly. H said it was all his fault that I had nothing to do with it big surprise for me. S was not satisfied with that answer. He knew it and wanted it confirmed. H told him that he had feelings for another woman. S in his 10 yr old logic told my H to just stop it and have those feeling for his Mom. It was very difficult but I feel it was for the best. S now knows that we will tell him the truth about anything else. I think it made him feel more secure because now he knew the whole truth. I also informed him that I wanted to make our marriage work. So he knows that if the marriage ends it not for lack of his Mom trying. I sometimes think thats why H is still here. S will know that it was Dad not Mom who chose to leave. I think you should tell your childen the truth. Give H the choice to be there or not. Wht shoulded he have to take responsibilty for what he has done?

Our children were about 16 and 14 when the affair "broke". We actually asked our counselor what to do at the first session and he said to tell them the truth. In our case, the affair was not a well-kept secret and the confrontation was pretty public, so if we hadn't told them someone would have...probably more to do harm that to do good. This was almost 2 1/2 years ago.<P>My husband confessed to the children and asked their forgiveness. Our daughter (the younger child) cried, but her brother held up pretty well. It was great to see how they stuck together and how our son was there for his sister....they really supported each other. Neither child turned their back on their dad, but our daughter did express some anger towards him. We allowed her to do it, because we knew she needed the space to express it and she didn't do it in a destructive way.<P>Today, 2 1/2 years later, both children have a wonderful relationship with their dad. We believe telling them the truth and them watching us as we healing and restored our marriage taught them very valuable lessons about love, commitment, forgiveness and grace. They also are well aware that we attribute our healing to our faith and trust in God.<P>My suggestion is to tell your husband that your son deserves to know the truth and that you are going to tell him. Give your husband the option to be present when you do, but not an option for him to tell your son without you present. I would even consider being as honest as you can with the younger children....withholding some of the more "gory" details. You are raising future husbands and fathers here. They need a good example. Give them space to love their father, but to hate the way he has behaved.<P>------------------<BR>"They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." Isaiah 40:31

Hi allison,<P>I have two children, a 23 year old son and a 17 year old daughter. When I first found out about my husband's involvement with another woman, I kept it a secret from everyone because he promised it was over and it had not progressed to a physical affair.<P>When the affair started up again and was discovered by the other woman's husband (she set it up to be discovered, long story there), she decided that she would blackmail all of us by threatening to make the affair public. My husband told our children that he had become involved with another woman, who the OW was, and that it was a horrible mistake that he regretted and would never repeat. I tried my best to reassure my children that their father still loved them and that they were in no way responsible for the choice he made.<P>It has greatly damaged the relationship between my husband and my son (it wasn't that great to begin with, though), and my daughter certainly doesn't have the same blind devotion to her father that she did before. But overall, both are doing amazingly well, much better than I am.<P>I would advise anyone with children who are old enough to understand to tell the truth. There is no point in sharing details, but the general truth is the right way to go. Your son WILL find out, and he will have lost his trust for you if you continue to hide it from him. Perhaps you should tell your husband that you have decided to be honest with your son, and give him the chance to talk to him with you.<P>You know allison, sometimes our children feel responsible for problems. It would be awful for your son to believe that this was somehow his fault. I think you should be honest with him and reassure him. When I talked to our son he said, "Mom, I don't really understand all this, but I know the man who did this is not the father I have known. I think he has lost his mind, but maybe it will come back." That pretty well sums it up.<P><BR>Peppermint

Hi Allison,<P>As you know I don;t have kids. But I thought about this one and I think you should sit down with your son and tell him. Because you are who you are I know you'll tell him in the "right" way. As far as Schmuck, I think you can tell him if you want, but I think he's in such a state he'll just turn it back on you and use it like you said, to further his justification for a D.<P>The part that sacred me about this was the description yougave me about the haunted look in your son's eyes. That made me know you need to "DO" something.<P>Your H and your marriage in my mind is secondary to your son's emotional health right now. HE IS PRIORITY! Your H is an adult and as such needs to start taking responsibility. I know he love his son but he isn't "seeing" him right now, you know what I mean, because if he did he would be on this like white on rice and make sure your son was OKAY. You agree?<P>I say talk to your son, he's so precious,it's already enough to handle being 18 let alone having to feel like your entire secure world is falling apart.<P>I hope I've helped ... I hope you feel better, this damn thing crushes us if we let it, all the flippin nuances related to it, all the people being hurt by it. It spreads far and wide, it's WRONG.<P>Love you Allison, I'm thinking about you Honey. You and your son are in my prayers today.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Thank you all...I'm overwhelmed by your caring and the fact that at last...at MB...we all agree on something... <P>I will do some more planning on this and I guess discuss it with my H on Monday...when he's back from his latest trip.<P>Jo, yes you did help, you always look at things clearly...and make me feel better, kinda like I'm not the schmuck here as much as H tries to make me think I am.<P>Wanna hear his latest reason for not loving me anymore...hold on to your sides...<P>beacuse I "bought a book every day at Barnes and Noble"...<P>I'm an avid reader, but a book a day...???and he says he's not exagerating. Man, they things they will use to justify their crap.<P>I am so sure....jeez<P>Ok, I have sisters and nieces and grand nieces and mom here...we're gonna drink cosmos and bash men a bit.<P>Love you all <P>thanks<P>allison

At the time of D-Day my oldest son was 15. My H was wanting to leave me without me or our family knowing there was an OW. I am nosiy & found all I needed to know, before he could tell he was moving out becuase I hadn't met his needs (we had been having this conersation for 4 mths, about how unhappy I had made him, for yrs, I broke the bubble by telling him I knew everything. Our son found out while his Dad & were arguing over how to tell him. I would not let his Dad say we were just having problems, & we didn't love each other. My H had to tell my son there was someone else, when my son asked his Dad why can't you go to counsoling, my H said there was someone else. My son did not take it very well, he adored his dad, I told him that I hadn't been the wife his dad needed, & his responce was, well was dad the husband you needed?<P>MY H has worked very hard to keep his relationship with his sons, (youngest is 8), we are still married & now living in the same house again. The now 16 yr old does lots of things with his dad, but he is mine, he knows if things don't work it is the OW & has vowed to make her life a living *****. NOt sure if he knows his dad is still in contact with her since we moved around the world, he does know that she contacted me before we left to join his dad, he does know that his dad was very torn, & that at one point his dad had decieded for us not to come & his dad would live with the OW (my H was not happy about our son knowing this) but when I thought we might not move I didn't want my son to blame it on his actions that kept us from leaving on the day we were to leave. We had a very emotional 2 wks before we got on the plane to join my H. Once here you would have never know that I had to almost push my son on the plane, he told me I should not trust his dad, this was a mistake, I think kids will forgive their parents most anything, as long as they know they are loved. My sons know that both of us love them with all our heart & we would die for them. <P>My son vowed to hate his dad forever. He doesn't but he does hate the pain that his dad has cost me.<P>Don't know if my rambling have helped. I do know that if we are unable to rebuild, I will eventually tell my younger son, it was because of his dad's A.

OMG!!!!!<P>Oh Yeah .... reading and buying books and improving one's mind is definitely a valid reason to stop loving someone and resort to an A. <P>So bloody absurd Allison, how did you keep from laughing your butt off when he said it. I can imagine you might have walked away a bit angry too, I would have.<P>When I use to listen to Steve's justifications it really drove me nuts, lets see:<P>~Your elbows are too big (I swear he said this and more than once)<P>~You have grimiss marks on your forehead because I'm not making you happy.<P>~Your the reason my back's bad.<P>~Your the reason I'm not famous.<P>~You're not a good groupie, you think you're too good to be a groupie.<P>whaa whaaaaa, whaa whaaaaaa, whaa whaaaaa and blah blah blah, yadi, yadi, yadi......<P>Believe me, I have been constantly looking in the mirror and asking every friend, and even some strangers, if my elbows look too big. So Allison, I'm asking, do my elbows look too big to you? (see pics) <P>Hey Alligator, what's a Cosmo???<P>I can' wait until January, Allison, really want to meet you. You remind me so much of my sister. And your posts make me laugh alot.<P>Be well Sweetie.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Ok, that is the best one I've ever heard here...your elbows.....I am dying laughing here. My kids are wondering what the heck is the matter with me.<P>I'm sure your elbows are perfectly wonderful and I'll check them out myself in January just to make sure.<P>The other stuff...the groupie stuff, yep, I got that too in another way. I never took his career seriously. He said he felt as if I thought he was a bufoon! Now, I have to say on that one that I did not feed his ego, he found others to fill that huge need when I didn't. I will never make this mistake again in any relationship I'm in. He needs major ego feeding and I fell flat on my face in that one. I was so proud of him Jo, he made himself a success with no help...came from very meager beginnings, worked three jobs to get himself through college. Is now one of the top 50 in our state in his field.<P>So hell, I should have bought myself two books a day at Barnes & Noble I guess. I could afford it then .<P>Jo, I know you can understand this, but I'm just beginning to get the full picture on how much I hurt HIM over the years. I can't tell my family or friends because all they can see is how hurt I am. He has worked his a$$ off for years, and I spent and took it all for granted. How does a person begin to make up for that? This is the crux of it for him, I just learned all this the other night. I told him how very sorry I was and how proud I always felt...what else can I do? He never felt anyone was proud of him...and he did have to work very very hard to get where he is today. All of this and a wife that would ignore him when he came home...I didn't even get up to warm dinner up for him. I was too full of resentment because he wasn't here when I made dinner. He says I compared him to others he worked with, that could be successful and still be home and be involved with their families. This is true, I did...but H said..."I was never smart enought to be one of those people...I had to work harder".<P>What have I done to this man?<P>It feels good to get that off my chest. Yep, it's easy to say...well, you never told me, you went out and found someone else to tell you how wonderful you are...and that is exactly what OW did, something I was not at all capable of doing. If he would just go to counseling with me I know we could work on this because I'm seeing the big picture for the first time...but Jo, I think it's too late. It's almost like I disgust him...he will never open his heart to me again. I have hurt him to the core of his being.<P>I know...he did wrong...but so did I...and I did for longer and in a very deep way. I am not taking all the blame here, but am beginning to see how unfairly I treated him for many many years.<P>Man, it's hard to look in the mirror...and realize that it really was not just him...and mlc...and OW. It's not just a fog...it's pain, long and deep felt by him, just like Im feeling now. I've apologized...and meant it, but it's too little too late I think.<P>Ok, enough rambling. <P>I'm gonna go look at my elbows in the mirror I think...easier than looking at my soul.<P>allison

Allison,<P>I know what you're saying, I really do. I think when you're in a marriage for so long you BOTH tend to take one anothe for granted and some of us, myself included tend to think the grass is always greener (i.e., you wanting him home more like the other H's). It's so very interesting how these feeling and realizations all surface in time. <P>To me it seems you are now seeing a bigger picture, clearer, which is leading you to taking responsibility (you know ... 100% of 50% of your marriage). Don't you think this is good that you are seeing it, Allison? Because I do.<P>You can't take all the blame, and I know you won't, remembering that your H is also equally responsible for letting the marriage fall to the wayside making other things (work) priority. I mean, he too could have come to a place where he saw him working so much and making a good living was taking away from your marriage union. He could have put the brakes on and sat down to talk with you about it, it was his responsibilty to tell you he was not happy. It's a 50/50 deal Allison. <P>NO, absolutely not, I do not think it's too late. I think you both need time. I mean, how long has it been since separartion ... and here you are so different than you were when this A first started. Both you and he are learning things about yourself and your marriage. He knows you love him, and he now knows you realize the needs that weren't being met, truly. Time, Allison, TIME ... and refelection. Things are supposed to happen when they do, if your H came back today it may not work because as you see Time has made you see things you didn't see before and so more time will bring you to a place that will help you heal and be a better Allison and wife/marriage partner. And this is also true from his side of it. He needs time ... <P>He's not going to "really" fall in love or LOVE anyone else while he's out there. He's going with what is making him feel good, the needs he didn't get from you but wanted. But this is all fleeting. <P>What's really really wonderful is you guys are talking about it. He's telling you how he feels ... this is all goodness.<P>I have high hopes for you marriage Allison, maybe I shouldn't tell you that, but I do. But don't concentrate on him now, concentrate on you and your kids. Spend more time being introspective of why you let things get to the point where you saw the grass being greener. I think this will help you. You'll probably find out that there were needs of your that weren't being met as well, hence your discontent.<P>Don't be afraid to look at you soul, Honey. From where I stand it's a very loving honest one. <P>So what do you think???<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 05, 2000).]

Regarding what to tell your kids - help me with this dilemma: When my wife (WS) moved out 2 1/2 months ago, we talked ahead of time what to tell our 12 year old son. Being the honest type, I wanted to tell him the truth - that Mom was in love with another man - not just any man, the Dad of our closest family friends who live right up the street. Their three children already knew why their Dad had moved out. Since my wife would not admit to there being an affair (although she told me she was "in love" with him), she refused to tell our son the truth. We had to compromise and tell him that Mom didn't love Dad as a husband anymore - of course he didn't understand this. Ever since, my son has asked frequent questions why we don't associate with the other family anymore and why I don't want him to be around the Dad (OM)if he ever sees him while with his Mom (my wife). My wife is very "protective" of our son not being told about the affair, since it isn't happening, i.e., she won't admit to it. So I'm always dancing when my son askes questions. If I tell him the truth, it's a big LB that will immediately turn me into "using" our son to influemce my wife. Of course, she'd just deny it anyway - like she denies it to herself. Suggestions?<P>WAT<BR>*************<BR>Time wounds all heels.

az allison,<P> I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt.<BR> In my experience with my own kids and the kids I work with at the hospital, I you lie to them, they won't trust you. They respect openess and honesty. I would say, be honest with your son, try not to be too emotional, don't point fingers, and answer his questions. He is 18, he will appreciate that you respect him enough to treat him as an adult. Tell him that you will alway be his mom, and you'll be there.<BR>He is 18, he's been making his own decisions for a while, now. Help him put this in perspective, listen,(really listen, without interuption), to his concerns, fears, feelings of guilt(he will have some) and his sugestions.<BR> Like I said, I'm no expert, but I have a 16 year old girl and an 18 year old son from a previous marriage. I know how gut wrenchng your situation is. <BR> I'm sure my son would be happy to talk to your son via e-mail, if you so desire,( He's a freshman at Duke, a neat kid.) My e-mail is glt1054@webtv if you need to talk.<BR> God bless you,<P> <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg