I haven't been to this site in almost a year but today was a very bad day and I felt like I needed to post and ask for help. I can't believe the first topic 'how important is honesty' was almost my story. It is too eerie. I too am so tired of hearing the lies..for a year and a half now I have heard contradiction after contradiction. It has been so hard... feel like I've been tricked into staying in this marriage because I wasn't told everything when I found out about the affair. I get so angry that this much time has passed and I still don't know the whole truth and don't feel that I can trust him. The only person that has told me the truth was the other woman...and I find that so sad. Of course she was happy to fill me in on how much my husband lied to me and how he lied to her to...I almost feel sorry for her too. I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this. I have come to the point that I really want to go away and not deal with it any more. My husband was also taped talking to his girlfriend. Her live in boyfriend of 15 years taped them and called and played them to me then went to his office and played them for everyone. That's how I found out and to this day I can still hear their voices saying 'I love you' over and over to each other on our anniversary. To this day those words don't mean anything to me. It just gets worse and worse. We both work for state government. After the affair became known my husband transferred to another job and no longer works with her. Recently I was placed on a project where he used to work. I see her everyday. What are the odds of that? I feel like fate is against us. I am now working with people who know more about what happened between the 2 of them than I do. It is awful...I am the one that goes there everyday and hanging my head in shame because everyone knows. I am on her turf. None of this has ever bothered her. When the affair was exposed she was almost proud of it. Said she knew what she did and wasn't going to hide it. I hate living like this.

Hi mdj,<P>I saw your response on the other post. Our situations do sound quite similar, don't they? I really haven't had a lot of trouble with the phone conversation that I heard between my husband (who posts here as firestorm, by the way) and the other woman. The conversation wasn't very open, the OW was extremely guarded because she knew the conversation was being taped, but my husband did not. You see, the other woman had called my husband from a pay phone earlier in the day and left a message on his voice mail to call her at home at a certain time. She wanted them to get caught. I think it was a part of her plan because she was also involved with at least one other man, but she wanted my husband to be the one to take the blame when she left her husband (LONG story there).<P>During the call I listened to she didn't say very much, there was definitely no talk about being in love or anything like that. She was playing the injured, hurt wife and my husband was asking her if she was alright, if there was anything he could do, etc. She finally told him that she really couldn't talk, and my husband proceeded to tell her to be careful so they "wouldn't get caught", and that she should call him the next day so that she could "talk more freely". He also made some very negative comments about her husband. Let's just say that the other woman's husband went looking for my husband with the intention of severely hurting him, but found me instead.<P>So I don't have to deal with the kind of memories that you do. I wish I could give you some comforting advice. All the other memories are horrible enough without having to replay that conversation in your head. Please let me know if you want to chat more.<P>Peppermint

mdj<BR>I am so sorry things are going like this. I think of you often. I really had hoped that things were going wonderfully for you and you didn't need to be here.<BR>I'd like to hear more of an update. <BR>I was going to reply to peppermint this morning when I popped in. I have thought a lot about the lies.<BR>I think I came to the conclusion a long time ago that my H has no idea what really is true. Do you think that's possible in your case?<BR>My H lied so much that he truly cannot distinguish the truth from the lies. I will never know the truth because he doesn't.<P>I have no advice for any of us besides acceptance. I just wanted to say hi and let you know I've been thinking of you. I'm not sure you should take too much of what the OW says as fact. Don't forget it is her perception of what happened. Not necesarily the truth.<P>Take care!<BR>Wassi<p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited November 04, 2000).]

Wassi,<P>It has been a long, long time. I too hoped things would be different by now. The sad thing is that much of what she has told me he has slowly come to admit is true. Its hard to know that your own husband lies to you and the other woman tells you the truth.<BR>I have also wondered if my H has no idea what really is true. I know he lied so much and I too wonder if he cant distinguish the truth from the lies and telling me what he 'thinks' or would like to think is the truth. One thing that always bothered me is that he didn't come to me when he became unhappy with our relationship and tell me that there was a problem. He wasn't honest from the start about our relationship. When it all started I felt something was wrong and went to him often asking him to talk to me and that I could feel that something was wrong and asked him what we, I could do to...he would just say everything is fine. In order for me to want to be in this relationship I want to feel like he can be truthful to me and if he was to become unhappy that he would tell me. He says he feels like he can do that now...but how can I believe him if he is still lieing to me about things that happened that long ago? He sometimes says that he lies so he wont hurt me anymore and keeps saying that is the past and he is doing nothing wrong NOW. I hate the 'NOW' word. Its really sad to think I trust her more than him. So much of what he told me were lies that I feel like I was tricked into staying with him. I never knew he could be that devious...like the only reason he asked me to move back home was so that he could stick me with the house and be free to get an apartment with her. I always thought he was really trying to reconcile with me...I never dreamed it was a plan to further their relationship. There is tons of stuff like that where he lied and I believed he was telling the truth. He told me that his feeling towards her were changing and that he realized it 2 days before they got caught...then I find out that he told her that day how he realized he didn't love me anymore and things we're going to be different in the new year...basically promising that they would be together. I wish I could tell you things were wonderful. But I can't just accept all the lies. I try time and time again asking him to please tell me the truth...all the truth...and get it over with all in one big BOOM! I can't take much more of this trickling of the truth..it has eaten up soooo much of my life that it seems like it will never end<BR>

Hi wassi and mdj,<P>It sort of sounds like we are all in the same boat, doesn't it? By the way, how are things going with you wassi?<P>Wesse responded to another thread and when I read it I honestly felt a moment of clarity. See if you feel the same when you read this.<BR>**************<P>Peppermint, I don't know how long it's been since FS cut off all contact with ow, but his healing from his self inflicted character assassination didn't really get started til then.<BR>My h had to heal from his own hurt at what he'd done to us and the damage he'd done TO HIS FEELINGS ABOUT HIMSELF before he could begin to face the truth himself let alone share it with me. He just couldn't deal with the shame he felt. Maybe FS is sincere in his apologies and just needs time to heal a bit more before he can move on the the next level of facing the truth about what he did. I do think that sometimes feelings of shame really are crippling to the truly remorseful WS. <P>Also, if mlc was part of this for FS, remember that just because the affair has ended does not mean that his mid life crisis ( the fogginess of which often lasts 5 years) has completely passed. I really think both shame and mlc fog helped make my h unable to deal with my recovery needs as they related to truth about his affair.<P>*************<P>mdj, how long HAS it been since your husband ended contact with the OW? I know it hasn't been long for wassi's husband. Firestorm told me that wassi's husband seemed so open and sincere in their communications, but obviously he isn't that way with wassi.<P>Firestorm was brutally honest with his therapist about the affair, but always tried to "sugarcoat" it to me. I'm sure there is a message in the fact that he had no problem being honest with a near-stranger, but can't face me with honesty. I'm also sure part of that message is that when you act like a crazy woman when your husband tells the truth about something painful, he doesn't want to tell you the truth.<P>One of the hardest things to be able to do is to look objectively at your relationship and honestly evaluate its worth and success. I haven't been able to do that yet. Maybe it's time we all tried to.<P>Peppermint <BR>

Hi mdj<P>Isn't it interesting that ow has been honest with you. It's very kind of her. What is her motive? Does she want you to hate your H and give up on him, so she can have him?<P>I am sure there have been times, when you haven't been truthful with people cuz you didn't want to hurt their feelings. You were thinking of them.<P>Do you think it is important to know all of the details? What's important ( I think) is for you to save your marriage. Try not to focus on the ow. She is not important. Don't talk to her, you owe her nothing and she doesn't deserve your time. She does not think that YOUR marriage to H is important. Show her differently.<P>I know that the lies hurt. Trust me, I have been there and I know that it hurts, more than anything else to be betrayed.<P>H is lying to you out of shame and disgust for himself. He feels like scum and doesn't want to open himself up in order to not hurt your feelings and hide what he know is wrong.

Reba,<P>I haven't talked to OW for a year now...she told me everything right after they were caught. I called him on my cell phone so he could hear what she was saying...they called each other liars. He denied almost everything she said to me. But during this last year I have found out she told me the truth and he lied to me. How can you build a future on lies? How can you trust someone to be honest in the future if they lie about the past? I don't want to build a relationship on lies. He says what he did THEN doesn't matter anymore because he isn't seeing her NOW. But he still lies about what happened between them. How do you make a decision to keep someone in your life if they won't tell you the truth? I don't want details I just want the truth. I feel like I was tricked into staying, that he lied to me so that I would stay. I don't believe anything he says any more. He lied to me when he was seeing her, he lied when he got caught and he continued to lie afterward. What do you hold on to so you can believe he won't lie in the future?<BR>

I feel like I was tricked into staying, that he lied to me so that I would stay. <BR>I know exactly what you feel. My H cancelled the D and begged me back into the home and marriage. (he had kicked me out) He denied any and all questions I had concerning another. Convincing (and I wanted to believe). I moved back in only to find out shortly thereafter about the A. He came clean and when asked why on earth didn't he tell me before, he said he was afraid I would stay gone. (and I probably would have). This just sucks. but I promised him I would stand beside him and I will. I really don't understand why people do this to the ones that they love. but have learned that I am not going to understand and it takes too much energy to keep trying to. Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>Janie

mdj<BR>How are you today?<BR>I have been thinking of you a lot. I wish I could help you more. <BR>You know that your H was probably lying to the OW at the same time he lied to you. One lie leads to twenty more and each of those...twenty more. His life was a lie. <BR>I really don't believe that they know the truth from that time, mdj. I don't think we will ever hear it. <P>But now...is he honest about now? <BR>I don't believe that the main thing is to trust him. I will never trust my H again. But I am learning to trust myself. <BR>mdj, if you can learn to believe that you can handle whatever comes your way..then you trust yourself. That is what matters.<P>peppermint<BR>What you quoted does make sense. I guess I will have to post an update for you.<BR>My H is neither open nor sincere with me. <BR>Thank firestorm again for his effort.