It has been one year since H came back home and I feel such a terrific void.<P>I am not meeting his needs any longer. because I've caught on to his game..."do for me and I'll consider doing for you, if I have time."<P>He absolutely does not meet any of my emotional needs. Yes, he will meet my physical (sexual) needs, but only if it suits his needs for the moment.<P>I seem to get more and more distant from him on a daily basis. Nothing seems to be going the way (I think) it should be. I question his return more and more. I wonder all the time if I interrupted his one and only beautiful and everlasting love affair.<P>I want so badly to call OW and ask her What he did for her to make her so interested in him and why she persued him persistently. Because I know he was not meeting her needs either. He is one of those mesmerizing individuals that can get into your soul and put a hold on you so strong that you can't get loose. He is not capable of meeting any one's needs but his own.<P>How can I live this way? I need more in my life and I don't think I ask too much of him.<BR>All I want is some of his time and some positive attention to make me feel I have value and worth to HIM. If he could only GET IT... and give me just the little bit I so desparately need to survive this wretched job I have, I would be the happiest woman alive.<P>I have tried ignoring him and being unattentive and he accuses me of being distant and avoiding him sexually. I'm sorry, but I can't seem to get the sexual feelings I need because I feel so void in other areas of our relationship. I tell him there is more to a relationship than having sex. Having sex helps us, but it doesn't last for long, maybe a day or two, then back to the old grind. <P>I am having a difficult time balancing the attention and the affection for him with the desire to be independent of him and not needing so much from him, that I hurt. I feel so deprived and sad. I know I deserve better than this, but how do I sway or convince him that I am worth his efforts and time. I feel so neglected, like I'm just his work horse that will take care of everything for him. The children, the house, paying bills, cooking, cleaning, even working at his place of business, and he ignores all of this and then expects me to jump on him when we hit the sack. EXCUSE ME!!!! I have needs and feelings too!<P>I don't know ya'll? I am beginning to wonder if I want to live with him like this any longer. This behavior is what got us off on the Big A track to begin with. Resentment, then anger, more resentment, more unmet needs, more resentment, then more anger, resentment, anger...it just keeps snowballing and I want it to stop. I deserve more in my life... Do you not agree?<P>Where can I begin to prove to him that I have value and worth without being so subservient and appearing holier than thou? I despise this void feeling in my life and I have suffered such trauma over the last year that I have no other interests other than surviving with him. He and IT has been my main focus in life, I can't think of any thing else, however I have gotten better and a great deal smarter since D-Day. <P>I want him to notice me and do special things for me because he wants to, does all this mean he doesn't want to? Does this mean he doesn't love me or is incapable of doing things for me to give me validation?<P>November the sixth is my birthday... I am now 52 years old... He has not mentioned once of my upcoming b'day in the past few days nor did he mention it when he went to bed. Hello...Can we say he is not interested in me or my life in the least????<P>I'm telling you, this man is so preoccupied with himself and his own doings that he can't focus on any thing but HIMSELF and his own needs!!! How can you live with a person so self absorbed?<P>I am about to loose it here tonight... I really think the tables are about to turn on him. I can't take anymore, I NEED too!!!<P>Sorry for the dissertation, I hope I didn't brow beat you to death. I think sometimes that I would be easy prey for someone who offered me the smallest amount of attention, isn't that what he did? Then, it's OK.<P>Cathy <P>

Itsame...<P>I have decided this... if he does not acknowledge my B-day in the morning... then I am going to get gussied up and go see my little Mama, and then get my sister to go to lunch with me and then I think I'll call a few of my friends and ask if they would like to go out to dinner later.<P>I already know the only way he will remember is when one of the children will happen to wish me a Happy B'day.<P>How does this plan sound?<P>Cathy

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CATHY!<P>I'm sorry you are feeling like this. Can't give you any advice but I wish you a happy birthday..<P>Meg<P>P.S. are you to in counseling? sounds like your H need one a big time..

Cathy: I'm sorry you've gone to all this work for what feels like naught. Your H's attitude reminds me of a joke we used to use when I worked in book publishing and we had to write jacket copy for books we hated:<P>"This book fills a much-needed void."<P>Substitute "husband" for "book", and it seems to fit your situation.

Catplay<BR>HAPPY BIRTHDAY, we are both scorpios! It seems as if your h is in a MLC, will he counsel? <BR>My h is now much more attentive, but for so long was distant, critical, and stressed. He has changed jobs, 3 day week, and seems to be slowing his pace some and not working with the OW of his EA. He has no withdrawal, so his claim that it was just working friendship may be one of the rare, true explinations of his EA.<BR>H is being a great husband now, but not in the SF area. I keep my emotions in check because I don't want to be hurt anymore. <BR>Do you and H spend time alone during the day? We don't get the 15 hrs a week either, but do spend an hour walking each day. Sometimes we talk, sometimes we don't, but he holds my hand always. <BR>Today H is having lunch with a former employee that "heard" some unflattering news and will tell H. I am very concerned it may be something about the OW, but H says it is probably the way he left the last job, quit (the day after the OW quit) H will call me later and tell me what was said. <BR>If your H doesn't have b'day greetings for you by all means go and be with your friends! You need this anyway. You need to relax and laugh and let the cares of the day go. Try not to talk about your M, though, it may spoil the outing for you.<BR>Are you on meds? My oncologist just gave me a pill for frequent hot flashes brought on by Tomoxifin. It is an antidepressant but found to keep flashes at bay, and it works! I can't help but notice that my mood is less gloomy now. When I think of things that had me in tears last week, I can remain calm and thoughtful about them. I can talk to H without the emotional stress that keeps him from talking. <BR>I hope you are feeling better now and having a good day.<BR>Happy Birthday, L <BR>

Hi Catplay,<BR> Happy Birthday!!!<P> Boy , I can relate to you.....my H finally seems a little attentive to me but it's been 18mos. of recovery and for the last couple of years I have felt way down on his list .What gets me is the time , attention, letters etc. he lavished on the OW and I BARELY get anything....I am 46 and we have been married 23 yrs....I really think we get taken for granted BIG time....."the good ole wife who is always there."<P> What has helped me tremendously is I am focusing on myself more and finding happiness in my own life....somehow the emphasis is NOT on him anymore and it doesn't seem so critical....it would be nice to have more from him but I'm not so sure it's going to happen. <P> I'm starting my own business and love it......there is a life outside of H and do you know since I am happier and not so upset about HIM , he seems more attentive?.....I think he realizes that I can be just fine without him..... Maybe I'm setting myself up for more problems but honestly -focusing on him and his needs only has made for an extremely unhappy me......hope this helps, at any rate, I know what you're talking about....LU<p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited November 06, 2000).]

Happy Birthday Catplay!!<P>If I didn't know better, I would swear we are married to the same man.<P>I feel that same exact void. <P>I meet his needs, hoping that eventually it will be my turn, but not so far. He's a taker by nature, doesn't know how to give, unless it's a plan to manipulate you into doing something else for him.<P>He also draws people (women) in and they end up becoming psycho over him for years. I don't think I've gone the psycho stalking route, but I guess that's probably because I have him still. He didn't meet OW needs, she met his, he saw her when he wanted to go out, or get laid without having to be nice to someone first (he always told me that was too much work just to get a piece of a$$). Nice guy, huh?<P>Just like your H, when I start to grow distant because I'm not getting anything at all from him, he accuses me of being the problem. I'm a b****, sexually unresponsive, playing mind games, etc. Just doesn't get the connection that when he doesn't give back anything eventually I run out of things to give to him.<P>I think that if I were out in the workplace again, and seeing people other than my kids everyday, I would be so very vulnerable to an affair. I like to think that I would never succumb to one, but seeing how I gratefully accept any morsel of affection he throws my way, I can't say I wouldn't do the same to someone else.<P>I question myself daily as to whether agreeing to work through this was the right choice. I fear that he took that as a real sign of weakness, and to mean that we forget it ever happened. For some reason he seems to think I should be kissing his a$$ for "being such a terrible wife that he had to go elsewhere". I kind of think it should be the other way around. <P>I told him the other night that he went and did this simply because he wasn't man enough to stand up and take responsibility for the problems in our marriage and work them out. He said I was absolutely right. It was a brief moment of lucidity on his part. The night before he was sticking to the story that I suck, and that's why he did it. Yeah, right.<P>I wish I had some advice for you. But seeing as how I'm riding in the same boat without an oar, all I can say is I know what you're feeling.

Happy Birthday Cathy!<P>I'm so sorry you are feeling this way. I think the plan to go and have fun is a great one. <P>Would your H consider counseling? Maybe as a last ditch effort for saving your marriage? Can you tell him how you are feeling? Or even get him into counseling with the Harleys to help you deal with things... then they can do a little education. <P>Good luck to you,<BR>Lora

Gosh I could have written all of these . I`m right there in the boat with you. H is so into himself he can`t even see anyone else including our S. I`m sure he would disagree but he has no clue right now anyway. H has never been one to make decisions so why I think this should be any different is beyond me. The only time I get anything from him is when I freak out like last night. How long are we suppose to put up with this physo behavior? I`ve been trying to answer that question but so far I have no answers. I to am doing my best to meet his needs although #1 is SF and he won`t let me meet that one who knows anyway happy birthday catplay go out and have fun.

Happy birthday to you...<P>I *reminded* my h what day my b-day was on for weeks and spelled out what I wanted. I still only got some of it, but it was sure better than nothing!<P>I too am married to a completely self-absorbed man. But I have been seeing him change right before my eyes!<P>I guess he finally *got* it. We counselled with Jenn Harley, were doing all the plans, etc. And still he later admitted he was waiting for *it* (love?) to HAPPEN TO HIM. He finally got that a real life relationship is something you decide to DO!!!<P>We just got Gary Chapman's book "5 Love Languages" and he does an excellent job of describing the difference between new *in-loveness* and more mature marital love which requires WORK. Duh...<P>I think having done all the Plan As and stuff, you have to create your own life (interests, family, friends, etc) and hope he *gets* it.

<small>[ February 08, 2005, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Yes, Happy Birthday!!!!<P>Thank you for sharing your feelings. . .I know were I to return to my husband, this would be exactly what my situation would be, so I can sympathize. . .<P>I hope that your birthday brings you some happiness, and that you will treat yourself well and realize what a special person you are today--<P>Mary

Hi Catplay,<P>I'm walking kind of a tightrope in posting to this...but I wanted to say thank you.<P>My H is not home, probably will not come home, and I wonder sometimes if it may be best this way.<P>I guess if the WS can honestly make the changes they need to make, then everyone can be happy, but don't we see a lot of this on these boards.<P>I am NOT NOT NOT happy for what you and others are going through. Thats what I meant by the tightrope. I am so very sorry it's not what you expected. But we need to see every side of what happens here and your honesty means so much to me. I am still in love with my husband. He means the world to me, but I think he'd be just the same way if he walked back in the door...unrepentant, cold, like he was doing me a big favor by being home.<P>Maybe it's just timing. I see responses to your post saying it takes more time, more consistency. I think it sounds like you are doing everything right, and I hope to God that he will open his eyes and begin to cherish you the way to deserve to be cherished.<P>It is a two way street...and I feel right now like it's ok to be alone right now. <P>Do you think so? Am I fooling myself to make myself feel better? So many damn questions as usual... <P>It's funny that I never miss him when it's time for me to go to bed. I remember so many nights of him crawling into the bed, thinking I was asleep, and turning his back to me. I would long to touch him...but knew I'd be rejected...even if I just wanted to hold his hand. I don't think I could ever take that again...not for one night...and that is exactly what I'd get.<P>It's a war trying to build some semblence of self-esteem after you have been cheated on and left. Every day I tell myself all about the fog...the mlc...how it's not me, it's him. I think it would all fly out the window as soon as he looked at me with those hollow eyes.<P>I'm sorry it's not going better. I'll bet it will get better with time like they say here. I'm not going to say..."well, at least he's home...mine won't even come home". You are there and you know that it's not enough that he's there, but he won't really try until he's ready. <P>Please keep taking care of yourself, you are an amazing person, and I've watched you give many others here wonderful advice. Fill that void with something you love to do...something you've always dreamed of doing.<P>Hope your birthday was wonderful...because you deserve wonderful.<P>allison

Hi all,<P>Thanks so much for the replys and support.<P>My B'day went fairly well, and indeed the children were his trigger. I really believe he had all but forgotten my B'day until D called this morning and he was on the extension when she wished me a happy B'day. Then the ball started rolling and it turned out to be a nice day.<P>Allison, it is true that his being here and my being here means absolutely nothing as far as recovery is concerned. The more time the better, I say, being apart helps both of you kind of get it together.<P>I suffered many lonely nights, just as most of us have... when he would sleep over, for one reason or another...I would hope he would leave his shirt, so I could sleep with it and smell it, it was such a comfort.<P>After every counseling session he had, he would tell me that he couldn't come back and it wouldn't do us any good for him to see me, because he needed more time, didn't think he loved me anymore. I just couldn't understand this...it hurt me so bad to hear him say this, because all I could think it meant was that he needed more time to be with her, that killed me! Counselor even told him that he thought that H didn't love me and never did!!! Can you imagine hearing this after 31 years? I knew in my heart that if he could just get rid of her he would wake up, come back...I knew he wouldn't come back or fix things until she was history. She was in the way and I knew it, but the counselor would never tell him that and H certainly couldn't see it. <P>I feel guilty sometimes for thinking that I was too persistent in his coming back. In fact, I hate to admit it, but I was kind of enjoying the new found independence and peace here. Now that he is home, all of that inspiring adrenaline rush has dissipated. I am no longer on the infidel diet and have gained back most of the weight I had lost. But, so has he, he has always been so fit, now he weighs as much as I do!!!<P>But, now I realize that he was in the fog and so confused about himself and his feelings for her and for me. It must really be a terrible dilemma to be in (emotionally), I certainly don't want to go there.<P>So, if it's time your H wants or needs, I say, let him have it and when he returns to you, you will not have to feel as though you were too persistent, as I was. It is one more emotional handbag you won't have to carry around and he will never be able to say he came back because you begged him to, or because you and the children needed him. Not that my H has said this, but I feel it may be one of his reasons and I wish so much I had waited for him to be on my door step begging for a chance to prove his love for me, that is when he would have made me feel cherished and admired beyond words. I want him to really want me... and I think I blew that chance one year ago.<P>I don't want him to be here out of obligation to us, I want him to be here because he was afraid of losing me and he cherishes me and will put me on the pedestal that he put her on.<P>Sorry for the mucho ramblingo... I hope some of this makes sense to somebody out there in MLC land. I sure can take off and to me, I am conquering the world, but others may be asking...what is she talking about?<P>Anyway, thanks again, and love to you all!<P>Cathy<BR>

Hi Cathy,<P> You make perfect sense, I understand completely ..... take a break and think about yourself for a change.........LU

Hi Cathy,<P>I read this post several times since it first appeared. I didn't respond because, even though I feel exactly the same way, I didn't have any real answers or advice for you.<P>Yes, your husband is home. But a physical presence is NOT enough to make a good relationship OR to meet your mutual needs. Not only is my husband firestorm home, he is truly sorry for what he has done and is REALLY trying to atone for it. He is in counseling. He apologizes to me very sincerely, several times a day. He does lots of kind and thoughtful things for me each day. He prays with me at night, and he initiates spending time together each day. He calls me and emails me several times a day from work. We have started exercising together daily. All of these things are by his own efforts without suggestions from me.<P>I know that is so much more than many betrayed spouses that visit this site receive from their betraying spouses, and I am thankful for his efforts. But you know what? I STILL feel a void like you described, and I couldn't explain it or understand why. UNTIL yesterday's counseling session with Steve Harley.<P>Cathy, I wish I could share with you everything he said word-for-word, but I will try to give you the highlights because I can't possible remember or repeat all of it. The void I have been feeling is a lack of intimacy, and I don't mean just the physical kind. Firestorm and I have lost our intimate connection because of the affair. To regain that intimacy, firestorm has to do three things according to Steve. First, he must trust me enough to be completely honest with me about the affair and why it happened. He has done that part now. Secondly, he must recognize and validate my feelings of hurt, anger, and betrayal without minimizing or making excuses for the effects of the affair. Thirdly, he must take measures to guard against repeating the mistakes of the past, including the affair.<P>Steve said that once he has done all these things, in time I will be able to trust firestorm enough to allow myself to be vulnerable to him again. In other words, until I trust him I will not open myself up to him and until that happens we cannot have a true intimate connection.<P>The lack of intimacy is what is causing the void in both firestorm and me, as well as our marriage right now. Our prime goal should be to restore that intimacy. To do that, we have to have a plan and we have to totally commit ourselves to following the plan to restore our relationship.<P>Do you think that the void you are feeling could be caused by the same thing? By analyzing our questionaires, Steve also noted that I am withdrawing from firestorm at an alarming rate, and that needs to be dealt with ASAP. The withdrawal is being caused by the fact that my #1 emotional need of openness and honesty is not being met, and that my #1 ranked lovebuster, dishonesty, has been rampant since the affair was discovered. Firestorm has taken some very positive steps in the right direction over the past few days to stop my withdrawing from him emotionally.<P>I know this is rather long, but my point is that counseling with the Harleys is so very helpful that I wish everyone could do it. I honestly feel better and more hopeful today than I have for many weeks. I am not ready to say that we are recovering yet, but we are definitely moving in the right direction for the first time since this whole thing started 18 months ago. I wish the same thing could happen for you, and I wish that I could do something to help you. Please let me know if there is anything I could do.<P>Best wishes,<P>Peppermint<p>[This message has been edited by peppermint (edited November 08, 2000).]