Well, my H finally did the EN questionnaire. I must say that some of the answers he gave were somewhat surprising. Obviously, there's nothing that I do well in his eyes. His top five are as follows:<P>Sexual Fulfillment<BR>Attractiveness of Spouse<BR>Domestic Support<BR>Affection<BR>Admiration<P>I could really use some help here---As for attractiveness of spouse---I've lost 70 pounds since our son was born in May, changed my hairstyle, bought all new clothes (most of which he has been with me when I bought and said that he liked), and taken a genuine interest in looking good. What else do I do???<P>Affection---he has a moderate need for affection and wants affection 5 times a week. He doesn't like the way I give him affection saying it's superficial. What do you guys like when it comes to affection???<P>Admiration---this is where I have a problem. Honestly, right now I don't admire him at all. He cheated, lied and basically disrespected me for 7 months. However, I'm supposed to "admire" him 3 times a week??? I guess I'm not even sure what he wants me to do. All you men out there---what really gets you going in this area???<P>Something ironic---he has a moderate need for honesty and openness and rated me -1 in his satisfaction of how I meet this need for him. On a scale of -3 to 3 of his meeting this need for me---he gets a -333!!!<P>One more question---have any of you found that your emotional needs changed once your spouse had an A?

Hi hurtinginil,<P>I recently posted asking for advice on how to show admiration. This was EXTREMELY DIFFICULT for me right after D-day, but now 10 months later, I'm excited about it and anxious to step up my efforts in this area. Here's the link:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/002354.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum8/HTML/002354.html</A> <P>Another area I've focused on was attractiveness. Besides losing weight, I started working out to "firm up", and have become almost maniacal in pursuing anything that may improve my looks. My H absolutely would never admit that attractiveness is important to him, but I don't buy it especially since he told OW many times how pretty she was (and he never even SAW her - they had an online EA). <P>I've always preferred a natural look, so thought my low maintenance routine was perfect, but have found that there's a lot I can do to improve my looks without losing my identity... know what I mean?<P>So, here are a few things I do now that I never dreamed I'd be doing. (Forgive me if these are things you already do, but it's all new for me...)<P>- manicure, pedicure every week (sometimes done at home with my daughters if we don't have time or money for salon, and you can do no polish, clear polish OR as bold as you want)<BR>- regular salon haircuts and gold stain to cover the little grey I have (looks very natural)<BR>- started using alpha hydroxy products shortly after D-day on face, neck, feet and it has made a BIG difference in the texture of my skin<BR>- exfoliate all over 3 times a week<BR>- never, ever allow stubble on legs...<BR>- always smell really, really good<P>That's all I can think of for now. The attractiveness part has actually turned out to be kind of fun for me, hope it is for you too.<P>periwinkle

Hi hurting,<P>How was Disney?<P>Your h's top 3 were identical to my h's. Men!<P>Funny thing is that now we have been flirting with the state of intimacy I think he might answer differently.<P>Well, sex was easy to meet, since I had been wanting more for years myself. I felt he owed me a lot! And you know what? He likes it more when I *use* him. Like I said, men!<P>I too got out of my ragged t-shirts and bought some clothes. I've always been fit. Don't worry too much about what more to do. Focus more on what you would like to change for yourself. Especially with fitness, it's the only thing that really works anyway.<P>As to housework, I hired a lady once a week for awhile and put the kids in school rather than keeping them 24*7. I'm back to doing my own house since she wasn't very dependable.<P>Just curious, what are your top needs?

Thanks for the replies!<P>Periwinkle---those were some great ideas. I have had my toes done every single day since about a week after DDay when H commented, "well, you could at least paint your toes once in awhile". Have to admit, I like it too! As for a manicure, biting my nails has always been one of my really bad habits when stressed out. Needless to say, they're a mess right now!<P>I'll have to check into some of the other things you mentioned. They sound great, too!<P><BR>Schizzo---Disney was great! Almost too good. It was a HUGE letdown to come back to real life and realize that all of the problems are still there. Lots of affection, intimacy, talking, etc. the whole time. Had to be a bit creative with two kids in the same hotel room, but we made do, if you know what I mean!! How about your cruise? Been dying to know how it was!!!<P>I was a little surprised about my H's top needs and find some of the things he mentioned to be frustrating. Such as the honesty thing. He wants it from me, but doesn't want to be honest to me??? Same with affection---he wants to receive it, but not give to me??<P>As for my top needs---affection and honesty. Quite frankly, these are not being met in the least. I question absolutely everything he says, with good reason. As for affection, if he touches me, it almost always leads to sex. Why can't he just give me a hug and kiss once in awhile without it having to lead to other things? His other comment to me lately on affection was he needs to be "in the mood" to be affectionate. Well, what about when I am??<P>Sorry, but I'm a bit frustrated today and feel that he doesn't give a da** about how I feel about anything. What's new, I guess....

Yep, affection is also at the top of my list. Are we twins or something?<P>It was very mechanical and unfulfilling at the beginning of our recovery, but I think it has to be done that way anyway. He made it a point to give me just what I asked for - 1 hug a day, etc. It got much better with time...<P>I think it was hard for him to show me affection because he was in withdrawal for OW. I thought why can't he just switch it over here? It doesn't work that way...<P>Honesty is not something I would normally list in the top 3 (I guess I assume it), but it sure is in the wake of an A. Peppermint has a good thread on this. I think the more open he is with your questions, the easier it is to start trusting again.<P>Glad you had a great trip. It's tough to come back, but those times really help. We used to never go anywhere (he would never do it). I'll have to post on the cruise. It left Sunday and he couldn't join me 'till Thursday, but we had a great weekend. How lonely those first days were with all the couples everywhere!

We did a couple of counseling sessions with Steve Harley. The exercise he had us do after we did the EN q'aire wasd for each of us to write 5 very specific things the other could do to help meet each one of our top 5 ENs.<P>Very, very specifc...what to do & how often. For instance, not just "express affection 5 times a week", but "cuddle me for at least 5 minutes every day before we get out of bed" or whatever.<P>Try this exercise. First, it really helps your spouse understand how you recognise affection, or admiration or whatever the EN is. Secondly...mayeb more improtantly, it helps you really think about what exactluy it is that helps you feel loved. It feels mechanical at first, but it helps build new, good habits for expressing love in a way your spouse recognizes. <P>I think you are supposed to review & revise the lists after a couple of weeks...we nevr have tho.<P>Good luck--<P>Kathi

Kathi,<P>Thanks--I was just going to post this myself!<P>Everybody has different ways of wanting their needs met, h, so the person you need to ask isn't really us, it's your husband. (Tho I love these kinds of questions!)<P>And yes, the needs do change. <P>If a need is getting met in spades, it's a "have" not a "need". And it gets knocked down on the priority list.<P>And even if it's ironic that your H says he needs honesty and truth and openness from you--as crazy as it sounds--it's a for real need. Don't ignore it or belittle it. He's really telling you what he needs.<P>Don't wait till you "feel" like meeting the need. When given specific directions made out for you, just do it--eventually you WILL feel it and MEAN it and you will actually be suprised!<P>

Thanks again everyone!<P>Schizzo---twins, could be? I'm adopted so I could have some siblings out there!! It's kind of amazing how people are wired very much the same as others, isn't it? Scary that we also seemed to marry similar men!!!<P>Yes, everything seems mechanical in a way, which is one of his complaints---nothing feels genuine. I guess it's so hard with everything that has happened in the past 7 months. I'm working on it, though.....<P>Kathi---thanks for the reply. I've asked him so many times what he wants, and he always replies, "figure it out". I think he's finally opening more so he'll give me more input. The EN questionnaire was a great start, so I'll have to slowly get the other info out of him..... He's finally willing to go back to counseling, too, so hopefully the counselor will put together a plan for us to continue on the path to recovery!<P>Leilana---you are my recovery idol!! I just hope that I am where you are someday! I appreciate your responses so much, and I've been trying to ask my H how he wants me to meet his needs, he's just not giving me any info. He always wants me to figure it out. I'm trying to pay attention to his every word, as he drops little hints now and then, but don't always catch on right away to what he's really trying to say.<P>Yes, it's really hard to meet a need when I don't really feel much like admiring him these days (his #5 need), but I guess I'll have to. His sexual need (#1) is 4-5 times a week, so I guess I better get ready for lots of lovin, too!!! (the anti d's and breastfeeding really make that one a challenge!!!) I'll also be going to the health club a few more times a week (#2 need is attractive spouse)--I guess losing 70 pounds wasn't enough for him, visiting the Clinique counter and hair salon for another new 'do. Sigh.....

As kathi says, he needs to be specific as to what will fulfill his needs. You also need to do this.<P>You say he is opening up more. Good. It'll take some time. Also, when you are doing something that you think is meeting his need, ASK HIM if it is!<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Wow, I'm so humbled! What a great compliment. Thanks, Hon! I need to be tethered down now--I look like I'm ready for the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade!<P>Without your H giving you info, boy, that just makes your job more of a challenge. I missed that fact or forgot it in your postings. I'm sorry. Now I understand! <P>Like Chris said, you could try a thing and then soon after ask "am I meeting your need for ___?" or more subtley, "did that hit or miss" or more romantically "did that make your toes curl or turn you off?". And then fine tune it in a low key way with him from there.<P>Or you could list his top 5 and under each catagory brainstorm like crazy on different things to try. (So you really are right! WE could help!) But you know more about your H than we ever will. <P> Then as you systematically try them out (like some mad scientist!) you can cross off the ones that kind of fizzled and put stars next to the ones that got a loving reaction. <P> Non-verbal cues are tough tho. I used to be quiet and not tell my H when he did something I appreciated and he remained clueless. My excuse was 1)I'm was not good at plainly stating my positive intimate feelings--it felt contrived and clinical, 2)it didn't require much effort or was so small a deed and 2)I didn't want him to think he could coast on his laurels for a while! What backwards thinking I used to have. He does internal cartwheels if I give him even a little bit of praise! <P>Admiration is a big one for my H, too! And I've learned how to "customize" my praise. Warning, the following is not for the easily nauseated...<P>"You just made my knees weak when you did/said/wore/etc. that."<P>"My heart is doing flip flops..."<P>"That was so sweet, cute, etc.... [in baby talk]"<P>"Come here--I gotta squeeze that face--[or other body part]" or just say nothing and actually squeeze or pinch it!<P>Or if we're with a group of people, give him a quick smouldering, pouty sex-kitten look or wink. <P>His personal favorite:<BR>"Oh my God! I think you just made me ovulate!"<P>Ok, that's enough. You get the idea. I can go from subtle to high comedy but it's all good. And he knows I mean what I express.<BR>AND it doesn't even remotely appear to have come out of a self-help book. You know how highly our guys think of these self-help books! <P>Too bad your H is telling you to "figure it out". Arrrrgh! Maybe he'll change his mind eventually as his needs are getting met and he'll start to feel like he's acting like a heel. I'm betting that's what will happen.<P>Hey--he did not list Family Support so he must think he's got that met--thinks you're a great mother. Ok, he's not such a bad guys, then. <P>You sound like you're nailing the others pretty well. Look into ways you can expound on them, too, Hon. I always try to fine tune an idea if it gets tiresome or boring. <P>But let's see what my H put down. God bless him, he was very specific. Ok, for sex, he wanted occasional outdoor sex or at unexpected times (lol, reminds me of Kato--the Pink Panther's sidekick!), more initiation from me, and more oral.( !) I actually downloaded stuff and bought books and studied on this one!<BR>I showed him ways he never knew were possible or existed or thought of! <P>For attractiveness, yeah, I'm working out WITH my H for more hours together and Recreational activity time (expounded!). He doesn't like lipstick (the taste, the look) and I think I look like a walking nightmare without it so I used to just ignore this "minor" complaint. Now I just don't wear it around him when we're alone or get as natural a color, or nonoffensive a taste/gloss as possible when we go out together. He also likes my hair french braided which I didn't think was a best look for me and so I used to dismiss this as well. Gosh, I was an idiot! <P>Domestic--it's not even a top 10 he says. What can I say, my H is a slob! <P>Affection: Ah, he's very specific here. Unexpected touches of his face, body, the soft and tender kind, winking, smiling and happy/positive expressions when looking at him. Oh, and looking at him with love in my eyes. Aww, isn't that sweet. I think I just ovulated! <P>Ok, that's all he wrote. Hope this helps. I had too much fun! Whew! Sorry for the length and scattered way I wrote it.<P>Love and prayers, <P>L<P><p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited November 07, 2000).]

Thanks Chris and Leilana! <P>Chris, that is where I am having a really hard time. Getting him to open up has been really difficult. He's getting there, though......<P>Leilana---thanks so much, hon! Lots of great advice! I've started asking him if I'm in the ballpark or not, and he does at least reply when I ask. He's been more open and willing to talk about things the last couple of days, too. He's been in Seattle on business, so it's just been by phone, but that's at least positive effort.<P>Domestic support is his #3 need, but I know what I can do about that one. He said he doesn't want meals out of a box and doesn't want to have to ask me to iron. He at least rated me as a 1 on that, and said that he likes the way I provide support. I guess I'll have to get more creative in the cooking area.<P>As for admiration---yes, I did get nauseated (kidding), but I guess that's what OW was doing. Gushing all over him about how wonderful he is!!! If I ever told him I was ovulating, though, he'd run as far away from me as possible (no infertility problems here!!!) This is probably the one I have to work on the most and struggle with.<P>I am going to ask him very specifically what he wants in the way of attractiveness. I look so much better than I did prior to this, that I need him to tell me what else he wants me to do. This actually frustrates me that this is his #2 need---it seems very superficial, I guess. I must brag and say that the jeans I have on today are a size 6---I used to be busting out of a 16---if he says I need to lose more weight, I don't know how I'll react.<P>As for sex---he wants it 4-5 times a week, more spontaneous, more passion and more oral. With 3 kids, one being an infant, the spontaneity is really difficult, as they tend to walk in. Saturday afternoon our 9 year walked in and asked what he was doing with his pants down. Kind of a mood wrecker!!!<P>Anyway, thanks much for the advice!! BTW, if I ever get to Hawaii (which I want to do for our 10th ann next June, I'll be sure and let you know!!!)<P>

Wow! You have three little ones and you went down 10 sizes?! Amazing. I can't imagine your H wanting you thinner. He's probably very proud of you and just lists attractiveness so that you'll keep up the good work.<P>If you've nailed the others (and if he's wanting sex 4-5 x a week, I'd say you're are!) and admiration is the one you have the most problems with--this is the one you need to make a mission out of. <P> I may sound like I'm pouring it on real thick with my H but he doesn't think so. He's a bottomless pit in this need. He gets complimented daily by other people on his looks, abilities or personality but for whatever reason he has such low self esteem that he's actually starving for it. So if that's what he needs, he's going to get it in spades from me so anyone else's compliments will look like chopped liver! <P>I remember reading in that "Light His Fire" book years ago that inside every man is a lost little boy looking for love. After toddlerhood they are not kissed and hugged 1/2 as much as little girls are. And from the time that they reach adolescence, they are hardly told how handsome they look in a new outfit. Do you think they spend any less time than girls combing their hair or practicing their "stances"? They are only seen for what they can accomplish--and even then, it's not always positive feedback. As adults, only "forward", "aggressive" or "OW" compliment men. Society in general, basically ignores this need. We create males starving for admiration and affection. So guess how come they are so primed or vulnerable for A's?<P>In the beginning, we all probably looked at our guys as knights in shining armor. Treating them that way perpetuated the behavior. Unrealistic to continue thru marriage, I know, but honestly--how much does it cost us to give a guy a compliment or a love pat x amount of times a day? <P>It's actually kind of fun. <P>Yeah, just let me know when you're coming down! I'll stock up on pepto bismal and you bring those barf bags from the plane trip! <P> <p>[This message has been edited by Leilana (edited November 08, 2000).]

Hey, don't complain... at least he did the questionare with you. The top two don't surprise me at all. Bad part of it is my H did a very scaled down version of the questionare and his top need was Attractive Spouse!!! That put me under the coffin, baby!!!<P>CT

hurtinginil,<P>I thought I was your idol. Just kidding...<P>Our three year old walked in on us yesterday. We were so hungry for each other and trying to get one in at 5 pm before he had to catch a flight!<P>Sounds like your h travels as much as mine. He is in London right now, he's gone three to four days/wk.<P>For years I thought this was the problem in our marriage and wanted to change it. Funny thing is, now I think it's good for my recovery!<P>Admiration - Leilana has some good ideas, but I think it depends on you and your h's personality. I started by thinking out loud on things I really did admire about him - like the way he juggles so many things at work and does it sooo well. He is a consumate professional and an excellent salesman. This meant a lot to him because he knew it was sincere. I don't think I could have done what Leilana is saying.<P>He has also become a wonderful father since d-day and my admiration in that area is obvious.<P>Now, I can say many of the more "romantic" things because our feelings are there again.<P>Size 6? My hips have never let me go below an 8, but I'm in my small 8s again! If you've ever been a slob (like I have), be consistent on your dress, make-up, whatever. I wouldn't worry so much about finding new stuff to change. And I now work out because I like it, not for him.<P>As I said, my h listed those exact things. But as we have grown closer, I find he really needs the conversation and affection as much as I do. I've also found he thinks I'm beautiful no matter how I look. I could not have imagined this six months ago!<P>Keep up the good work! I think you're doing an excellent job. It was easier for us working with the Harleys. Still, it was hard to get him to meet MY needs.<P>I was there to talk to him as a friend and that really drew us close, now he is being more a friend to me as I'm focusing more on my own healing.<P>PS I wanted to say something about sex. I listed it as my #2 need, so this was something I wanted almost as much as he did. I felt he owed me a lot after the A. I know we're all different, but if you give yourself permission to take more in this area, I think it could be something good for both rather than a need of his you're trying to meet.<p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited November 08, 2000).]

Hi guys! Back again.....<P>Leilana---thanks again!!! As for the weight thing, I do think that is part of it. He is very afraid that I'll gain all the weight back. I'll be the first to say---no way! I didn't work this hard to go back to being a 16. Besides that, I gave away ALL of my clothes, so I'd have nothing to wear. I will never, ever, again buy anything that size. I get compliments all the time and it feels so great! I'll be the first to admit that I do need to tone up, though. I'm a bit flabby in areas with losing that much weight.<P>As for admiring him---I sent him an email this morning telling him how good he looked and that I wished I could have kept him home all to myself. Seemed like it was a bit deep in here for awhile, but now it felt pretty good to say it. I really did mean it, too. This is going to be hard, but I'll persevere.....<P>Catplay---I know I shouldn't complain, but it's a little disheartening once in awhile. I still don't understand why attractiveness should be so important.....<P>Schizzo---you're my idol, too, don't worry about that!!! Those 3 year olds can be a pain, huh (just kidding, I love mine to death). She walked in on us again last night! Asked why I had taken all my clothes off and what the noise was all about. At least I can stretch the truth to her. The 9 year old doesn't fall for it quite so easily! Actually in counseling, this was a big issue for us---I got pregnant before we were married, at age 18. Coming from a very small town, we were looked down upon very seriously. So, basically, this unconsciously made me think that sex was a very bad, dirty thing. I've been able to get past that, and hopefully things will improve more in this area---they have already, so I'll just make sure that they continue to go in that direction!!!<P>Yep, my DKNY jeans were a size 6 yesterday. I do have a lot of 8's, though, too. When I started setting goals, I would have been satisfied with a 12, but now, no way! I never imagined that I could even be a 6/8. I am still breastfeeding, so am still rather busty! Then I'll actually be a size small rather than medium on top!<P>Enough rambling, take care!!!