As stated in previous postings, I (an Australian) have been married for nearly 20 years to an Asian, who is now having an EMA in Hong Kong with a visiting businessman. Like all Asians, my W is very conscious of "face".<P>As I see it, even if her affair fizzles out and she wants in her heart of hearts to return to the marriage, the dreaded need to save "face" may prevent her, as she has told so many friends and acquaintances that we are finished and she is seeking a divorce.<P>Lover boy (who has no intention of ending his own marriage) is visiting HK at the moment, I think, and I have a gut feeling that all may not turn out roses for the star-struck couple.<P>The problem is, how can I offer her a face-saving way to admit she was wrong and return to the fold. Needless to say, I want her back and am prepared, not only to forgive, but also to accept my share of responsibility for what has happened q.v. His Needs; Her Needs by Dr Harley<P>ANY IDEAS? (I think)<P>------------------<BR> leadboot@bigfoot.com

One thing I neglected to mention was that there is no negotiation between us.<P>"Communication" is a one-way street, with me doing the communicating and W not responding at all. It makes things even more difficult having this blank wall.<P>I sometimes am sorely tempted to heed the advice of a number of friends who suggest W is not worth the effort; after all, I trust her and she repays that trust by picking up a visiting businessman in a bar!!<P>I am trying hard to remain in control of this end of the situation, but sometimes, like today, it is very difficult and hardly seems worth the hassle!<P>What advice?<P>------------------<BR> leadboot@bigfoot.com

I have no advice at all, can't even go there! Just wanted to respond and let you know I care. I hope things look better for you soon. I'm too zoned out tonight to help.<P>CT

Hey Ozboots,<P>I'm afraid I'm a bit with Ct.<BR>However, I can share with you the feelings of having no communication.<BR>My H (the one who had the affair) doesn't not speak to me, but his communication skills are such that he may as well not.<BR>I have tried so many different ways of opening up the communication channels, to date, none have worked.<BR>I even suggested counselling. Not marriage counselling, but counselling to help us co-parent effectively and without animosity but he won't even do that.<P>Without going into details, (which are all on Divorced/Divorcing site) I sent him an email today raising some concerns I have where our children are concerned and his new g/f. My email was quite long, not venemous or bitter or angry, but trying to get to the bottom of an issue I have. I thought it was caring, and just full of concern for our children. Yes I had a go at him for his behaviour where they are concerned, and I also let him know that I was concerned about our d become bitter and ugly.....do you know what I got back.?<P>An email that said he didn't know where the comment came from, and he would speak to D about it next time he spoke to her. (Our D is 5 yo for God's sake.....)<BR>He also said that he doesn't want our d to disintegrate into one that is bitter or ugly either. THAT'S IT.<P>So, out of about 4 issues that were raised, I got that. No mention of how he wants to try and sort the issues out. Just 4 lines.<P>One thing I have learnt, is that you can't teach someone how to communicate if they don't want to help themselves. You poor thing, you also have cultural issues to deal with. I have had a bit of training where Asian cultures are concerned from being in the hospitality industry, and know full well about saving face. I will try and talk to aa friend of mine who is chinese. She may have some insights or suggestions for you. Both her and her h are on their second marriages (I don't know the specifics of their firsts) but I guess any little snippet of information could help you.<P>I'll let you know.<BR>Keep your chin up. And send more flowers.................

The saga continues. I have tried the flowers. No response. I have tried greeting cards and notes. No response.<P>The only communication I have received is when she has wanted something! (Probably a familiar story to many.)<P>Meanwhile OM has been in Hong Kong for two weeks and they have had such a wonderful time. I even read all about it when OM (a real genius, this one) mistakenly sent an email to me instead of my W.<P>Very initimate it was, too. As was hers to him, which was attached!<P>They are both so hypocritical, going off to mass together, then hightailing it back to his hotel to continue unabated.<P>The longer this goes on, the less inclined I am to fight for the marriage, even though it is almost 20 years that we have been married.<P>My real concern is that W, by parading OM in front of all of our friends in HK and savouring my humiliation (albeit in absentia)is digging herself into a very deep hole. When he loses interest (remember, he has already told W that he has no intention of ending his marriage) she is going to be incredibly let down.<P>She is showing signs of mental unbalance in what she is doing and how she is going about it, so I am really, really worried about what she might to when EMA ends. Face, as I have stated in a previous posting, is very important to her as an Asian, and her humiliation when (no question in my mind of if) she is dumped will be total.<P>I am very worried for her and wonder what, if anything, I should do.

Hi Ozboots,<P>I'm so sorry - for you, and for her.<BR>Unfortunately, like so many of us here, all you can do is sit back and watch while this all plays out. And be there to pick up the pieces if you want to, and if she will allow you to.<P>I'm sure every single last one of us has had ideas as to what could bring our spouses home, how we could stop them from hurting THEMSELVES so badly. But at the end of the day, they don't want our help. They need to do this on their own, in their own way. And they need to be the one's to fall over.<BR>Affairs have been likened to a drug addiction so often here. IE, that our WS's need to hit rock bottom before they realise what has happened to them. And what they have lost.<BR>Unfortunatly, your W has a double whammy, what with the saving face and all.<P>You sound like you're doing a wonderful Plan A. I admire that. If you can, and despite everything that she is dishing out to you, keep on doing that. I wish I had had the fortitude to continue with Plan A longer. I wish, oh how I wish, that I had the benefit of hindsight. And that I had found MB way before I did. Because what everyone told, or rather suggested, that I do, was right on the mark. I left it too late tho.<BR>You sound as tho you still have a fresh slate with which to work. That is a luxury I don't have.<P>You need to decide exactly what it is that you want. If you want your W, and your marriage, keep doing what you are doing. Plan A her to death. As you said, this affair is not going to last. Be there for her when she falls flat on her face.<BR>Or, decide the other way.<P>BUT, whichever way you do decide to go, you must take care of you. You need some pampering right now too you know. Get some more exercise, have a massage, book a weekend somewhere nice and take a good book and a good bottle of wine. Do something for you.<P>I wish I had some better words of wisdom for you, however, I can offer you my support. I can also share with you what I did WRONG. So you won't do it too !!!!!!!!!!<BR>That might be invaluable to you ...........<P>anyway, it's late and I've been up since 3 am this morning. I'll be thinking of you, and wondering how your situation is going. I wish you all the best, keep your chin up, and hang in there.<P>Bonnet