HI All,<BR>Today was very painful for me.<BR>I had the misfortune of having to sit thru an hr long meeting with a number of coworkers. Problem was two are fairly open abt the affair they are having. Today they joked and teased because the administrator was not present, and then proceeded to play footsies under the table while giggling. <BR>I have only been in this state, at this job for a few mos, and have not cultivated many friendships there. Sure, I heard the rumors and have seen lots of signs the two have a relationship that is not exactly professional. <BR>Watching this made me want to just scream at them both! It was grossly painful for me-brought back a lot of feelings, and none were good. <BR>I really would like to say something, but surely it is not my place......or is it? The jobs they perform are not directly affected by this behavior. So, that makes it a personal, ethical, moral issue.<BR>My h told me to deal with my feelings, stay out of their business. <BR>How best to deal with this? I would just as soon spit on them as talk to them! Unfortunatley I have to deal with them daily.<BR>Ughhhhh.

cl,<P>Uggghhh is right! I couldn't imagine looking at that everyday. <P>Its amazing that married couples that work together tend to go out of there way to NOT do the "lovey-dovey" stuff in the workplace. I guess for office affairs, footsies under the table are part of the allure.<P>I think your H is right. "Flaunting" their relationship @ work shows that they have no respect for the spouses and even less for their co-workers (except the administrator). In other words, saying something to them will likely not change much.<P>Don't know your relationship w/adminstrator, but if it gets to be too much to bear, you may consider conveying your dislike of the couple's lack of professionalism.<P>God Bless,<BR>Enlightened<p>[This message has been edited by Enlightened (edited November 10, 2000).]

I assume these co-workers are married and that's what bothers you, right?<P>Some companies not only turn their heads the other way at such things, but openly encourage it. I used to work for a company in which one gal was engaged to a fellow, and carrying on a sex-on-the-desk affair with her fiance's boss, who was married. Everyone knew about it, and it was like a joke. Another couple, he the director or the graphic arts group, she the director of human resources, were caught having sex in a closet once, and it became part of the Christmas Party comedy film. <P>Pretty disgusting stuff. I left that company after a year.<P>I don't think you can say anything, kiddo. It's not for you to set the corporate environment. Some companies, amazingly, have no problem with this stuff. If you plan to stay there, being the office prig can affect your career, if the environment is such that these things are condoned. I don't know if that's the case where you work.<P>My advice is to grit your teeth till you're there six months, then start looking for another job.

Hi CL,<P>Here are hugs to you. (((((((((((((CL))))))))))<P>Been there done that. When I was working for the former company. A couple of people had inter-office affairs. The problem was there was no official policy on this. Though not really sanctioned people just had to deal with it. <P>One of my former under employees makes a habit of finding married men and ruining their marriages. So at the time both of my employees were cheating with each other. She dumped him the minute he got a divorce. When the division got bought out. I made it clear that I was not taken both of them. My boss hired her on. What a major mistake. I told him not to but he want ahead anyways. <P>At the new company she proceeded to start something with one guy and then tried with the boss. I stopped her. I told her she could no longer have any time with him without my approval first. She has so many problems I could not even list them all. While away on vacation she tried to get me fired. She out and out lied about me. She got moved to into a new department. Two weeks later she quite the company. <P>I guess find out the policies of inter office dating. A lot of companies do frown on it because it is so disruptive. I know when employee 1 and 2 were at it they would be kissing in the cube. Both were in high traffic areas and not getting any work done. I ended up having to spend more time policing them than doing my job. <P>You might be surprised that others do not approve either. I know in meetings I have said before lets all start to be professionals again so we can get out sooner. And make everyone get back on track. <P>Lastly try talking to your boss. They might not do anything in front of her/him because she/he already talked to them about their behavior. But go to HR first and find out what the policy is. <P>Personally you should not have to deal with this. They are there to work not find a date. I know how hard it is though to relive all your affair garbage because of them. I would come home a mess from work. Try and hang in there. I know how hard it is because if it is the company culture you do not want to be labeled the company prude but you also should not have to deal with this crap either.<P>((((((((((((CL)))))))))))))<BR>

Hello Ladies,<BR>Thank you one and all!!!<BR>And today I was thankful for a series of disasters.....yes indeedy I was. Meant I did not have to see either of these people.<BR>I have only one boss, the administrator, and I doubt anything would be done if I said something. That is propbably not a good option. I am not sure it is condoned, but it is not discouraged. There are no corporate policies abt dating, married workers, etc.<BR>I guess I have to learn to live with it. It is just so hard for me! It is ugly and painful...why can't people just see how they hurt others? Gads, where do they come from?<BR>Now am thinking I am being very judgemental.<BR>

When in Germany, I got a part-time job as a chamber maid cleaning rooms in the AFB billeting. One day, an Air Force Master Sergeant checked in as new to the post and was to stay until his family caught up with him.<P>Across the hall was a pretty young SR Airman. For weeks, I saw them carrying on. I was privy to their secret because I cleaned their rooms. I don't know if she knew he was married or not. I don't think so. But one day, he pulled me aside and said "Please don't say anything about this to anyone." I was so disgusted, I didn't even bother to respond.<P>Months later, I saw him out to dinner with his wife and kids, playing the role of loving husband/daddy. He caught my eye from across the room and stared at me really hard. It made me even angrier. This memory still burns me, almost as badly as my own betrayal. <P>I don't know what happened to the girl--if she was used and kept in the dark, or used and let down hard, or what. Whatever, her heart is probably broken.<P>I just thought at the time--why do people do this? And why do they figure it's just a normal everyday activity that won't result in shame?

My goodness, I let this get into my homelife now. H and I had one of those terrible all night fights that started by discussing this issue. Great date night, huh? <BR>No sleep, puffy eyes, dark circles----there seems to be no end to this affair crap.<BR>I really do not think I have dealt with all the issues surrounding discovery and causes of his promiscuity at all. Just buried them. <BR>I am still more than just a little angry-I just plain hate what he has done and am questioning if I can ever truly get past this and love him again like I used to. <BR>There have been times I have felt very in love with him, but it has waned now. <P>I think some of the statements last night really did in any feelings I had. "We never had any problmes in our marriage til you insisted on knowing if there had been other affairs. Now that I told you the truth, we have problems." "The real problem is the truth, not the affairs." "I had to do it to grow, or we would probably not be married now." "I had to have those other women to be happy." "Now I am done with that and only want you." "There was never an attachment or any threat to us, so why does it make you feel so terrible?" <BR>What a total jerk. He will never get it will he?

Hi CL-<P>A co-worker affair....that's how my ex-h ended up with Mia. Although not in the same department, both have jobs that at some point during a project, their respective job functions will overlap and they ultimately end up working together at least for some portion of time. He lied about this to me at the beginning, saying she was only a "temporary" employee brought into the company during a strike to do the work of the striking union people, but that was a huge lie. Mia is in fact in a very visible and responsible position, where everyone knows her. What's worse she is thought of as a very competant and likeable woman.<P>I know that they never had sex at work, neither she nor my ex-h would place their jobs in jeopardy for a romp in the hay. It is a company policy where they work that co-workers who are in a relationship cannot also be in the same division or department.<P>They are still together, and plan on getting married in the next year or so (that's what the kids tell me). See, two years later after discovery, divorce, I still resent that while I was home (although I admit not a very caring wife), he was stimulated by a working woman who also managed to have a life outside the office. What can you do???

Hi TL,<BR>Thanks for your response. Maybe there is jut more of this going on than I wanted to realize. Sure we read the stats and hear about it, but when it does not directly effect, I think we tend to minimize? <BR>I always thought being a good example was enough. Not true. Maybe we really do need to be outpsoken advocates for the institution of marriage? <BR>Maybe I should order a couple cases of Harley books and pass them out at the next mtg? <BR>My h thinks I am just plain nuts, depressed, and is verbally pushing for me to make a decision. Problem is his idea of 'decision' is not mine. He insists that if we are staying together, then this affair subject, or anything closely related, such as the subject of office affairs, needs to to never be mentioned again. The topics of conversation are certanly curtailed....and feelings cannot be expressed. <BR>He needs more than a frying pan or a 2x4 to his head today.<P>

cl,<P>Your feelings are justified- and I'm very sorry your husband is such a jerk about his. How old is he? Maybe it's just a maturity issue- but if you have any intention of staying married to him, I'd recommend some counseling for both of you, and if he won't go, at least for you; sometimes one person CAN successfully work on the relationship, and bring around the perceptions of the other. In this regards you and your husband sound like you're light years apart- I see a total lack of empathy. It's pretty much BS that having a woman or two on the side is going to help him "grow up" and be able to stay in your marriage. Maybe it was something that convinced him that "the grass isn't greener on the other side", but that's not intimacy building, that's comparison shopping. <BR>If you haven't already, read some of the Harley books, they're good. Another very good book is "Passionate Marriage", by David Schnarch. Excellent book, but a little deeper than some are ready for if a first reading in this area. <BR>Good luck, and try to have a good weekend.<P>Regards,<P>Jon

Warning, I am in a nasty mood !<P>Cl,<P>I think it would be funny if Mr and MS Hot Pants got anon. letters saying "Someone knows what you are doing and if you do not tell your spouse/s they will be told by someone who knows . "<P>And maybe copy a letter to the spouses onto their letters . Maybe that will shock them out of the fog. I'm not saying you have to tell the spouse/s, but a good scare may wake these people up.<P>I know what you mean about the feelings not being the same and wondering if we will truely be able to get over it. Sometimes people are so clueless. There are days I wwonder why I am still here at all.

Hello John<BR>Yeah, we are light yrs apart. We are abt 22 mos into recovery, which has been going well til the last few weeks. I am just sliding downhill lately. Married almost 23 yrs when all this came out-my h is a serial cheater. We have had a lttle counseling, read lots of books, retrouvaille, etc.<BR>Hmmm, interesting that you mention empathy. He has none. <BR>You ask what made him stop. Illness-affair generated, he was sick for months, then had a few surgeries as a result of the illness. <BR>As far as his ultimatums, NO, I am not buying into it. I have put everything into this recovery, and he needs to give a little at this fork in the road. I cannot agree to these demands. I do not think they are reasonable! Maybe I am just plain nuts!!!<P>Hi Deb!!!!<BR>Send the frying pan...unless you have ruined it beating mike over the head! <BR>Ohhhhh, you are in an awnry mood aren't you dear! Send an anon note? Are you serious?<BR>How are you feeling?<P>((((hugs)))) cl<BR><p>[This message has been edited by cl (edited November 12, 2000).]

cl,<P>Yes I am serious ! Very ! I think if someone had threated to tell me when Mike was involved with the last affair it would have scared him spitless ! Remember, I was never supposed to know.<P>Sshoot, send me their email address and I will do it.<P>I am feeling ok , not good but ok. I am in the middle of the third month of treatment they should do a viral load test (PCR) in a week or two, and then I will know if I am responding . We know I respond because I did before. Then it will be three to nine more months of treatment and then we wait and see if I relapse again. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

cl<BR>I'm with Deb on this one.

Hi CL,<P>Two things. I like Debs idea of an anon letter. And I just know the place. : ) I have not used it but test it and see if it works. They have a cheating section. <BR> <A HREF="http://www.give-a-hint.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.give-a-hint.com/</A> <P>Click on Cheating Spouse.<P>If they play games in a meeting you can just say ok lets get back to business. You two can fool around on your own time. I would not even mention the affair. Elude to it all you want. If it bothers you that much than say something to them. Sometimes we must stand up for what we believe in. Do you have any friends in the new company that could steer you in the company culture?<P>Second, Your H needs to decide what he wants. I have been in the same situation. Serial cheater with little to no remorse. It gets old. This entire macho attitude where you need to just forget it is stupid. How do they figure that? I know it makes them comfortable but give me a break. Your H is really making me angry. <P>I am sorry you are going through this. I just want to make the point that you have to start doing for you again. I knew you stopped coming to this board because your H did not like it. But at some point we have to say too bad and do for us. If your H wants this relationship with such a wonderful woman (YOU!!!!) than he needs to start doing some work. By nature men are not as pro-active in a relationship as women are but your H has to put some effort in.<P>Do you feel that your inability to get over the affairs is due to way the affairs played out? I mean to me it seems that the only reason he stopped was because he got a serious disease. He was lucky in the fact he never got caught. Plus would have any of his OW stood beside him like you did when he was sick. I wonder if that is your source of anger. Plus you have moved for him. What has he done or given up for you? <P>See these are major sources of anger for me. I left Texas and all my family and friends to be with Tony. He repaid me with affairs and letting his family attack me all the time. Tony even probably caused his family to hate me by lying to them. He told them we were having problems but he forgot to mention due to all his affairs. I still have a hard time forgiving Tony for all his major selfish acts.<BR>