is it possible for a man to have an affair with someone who he has no feelings (love, affection) for, or whom he does not really feel remotely attacted to? Any advice would be great.

Not personal experience, but from knowing other guys, I'd have to say this- (and the answer really isn't good, anyway you look at it).<P>MOST affairs in my opinion, and from friends who have been involved in them (and of course, in Harley's books) start from the situaion of people not getting key emotional needs met, often for conversation or companionship, and having someone outside the relatinoship start to meet them, in what seems like an innocent manner, but it just gets out of hand if they connect strongly. This is the tyipcal EA -> PA type of evolution. <BR>Then, you have men who are womanizers, don't really connect emotionally with any woman, and use woman for sex and ego building. That's the kind of situation I can imagine a man having an affair over; say, no SF at home, for whatever reasons, and he seeks that outside the home. Thing is, if you have any taste, empathy, or respect for yourself and partner, if you're sleeping with someone, it's hard not to develop emotional attachments- unless you asoical or pathological in some other way. <BR>So, rationalizing and dismissing an affair by saying you weren't emotionally involved, is, how shall I phrase this delicately, B$. If you weren't emotionally involved, but physically involved, that's rather sad. <P>Regards,<P>Jon

My H met a stranger (friend of a friend of a friend...) in a bar and then "dated" her for about 4 weeks, ended seeing her before I discovered the affair, but kept up some phone contact for maybe about 8 weeks.<P>Although I don't think this type of affair is the norm, after being here for a long time, it can exist.<P>Everything I read here and in books, spoke either of affairs caused from needs not being met or/and "friendships" crossing the line. I don't have time to explain the whole thing, but my H's affair didn't fit neatly into any description I read....until I read Private Lies by Pittman.<P>In that book, there is a thing called an Accidental Affair, and that fit my case at least, more accurately than anything else.<P>I think after the initial "rush" fueled by feeling attractive, etc...to another woman, my H quickly saw what he was doing was wrong. I think his unemotional type of personality actually helped him not be swept in by emotions, but his basic "nice" guy caused him to walk the tight rope while trying to get out of the affair without hurting OW. In the end I don't think he didn't even like or respect her, much less pine for her. I do think he did feel sorry for her and guilty that he caused her pain. (gag).<P>Anyway, that was my experience, hope it helps.

hmmmm first of all. let me ask a couple of questions. AR you the wife? or the husband? If you are the wife, then my guess is that, your husband is denying even to himself the amount of attraction there was for the affair to happen.<P>NO, there doesn't have to be attractiveness between them, emotionally is what usually counts in the affair life. Love...no... lust....yes....affection....no... lust yes.<P>blunt.. yes... helpful...hopeso<BR>mercy

faithhopelove:<BR>I have read Pittman's book, as has my H. We found it after he had told me about the details of the affair. I was amazed by the similarities when I read the section on accidental affairs that I had to have him read it and tell me if this was what it was like. He was amazed, too. Our situation was very similar to yours, except he didn't want to get the OW mad at him for fear she would tell me, not because he didn't want to hurt her feelings. My H is a "nice" guy, too, a little unemotional, etc.<P>mercy/jon:<BR>I'm a wife, and yes, I'm afraid that he may be denying any feeling he may have had for her, even to himself. I've given him every opportunity to come clean (as I believe he has about everything else) and yet he still claims that he wasn't attracted to her (said she was just average) and certainly didn't have any feelings of love/affection for her. Just wondering if it was possible.

I agree that it is possible to have an PA without too much emotional attachment. My H met a total stranger from another country while on a business trip and liked her as a friend but also physically attracted to her. They contacted each other via email and eventually he and her planned to meet again. He went to her country and countinued a PA but he admitts that emotions followed. H also states now that those emotions were not genuine after the fog left him. <BR>So I guess there are all types of affairs.<BR>SillyMe

Of course I would assume my H was not repulsed by the OW initially, but I do think that it was how she made him feel at the time of his "bad brain" period, and her availability plus her ability to manipulate the situation to her benefit, moreso than any overwhelming attraction or emotional pull he felt.<P>In fact, when I asked what he found attractive about her (well after it was over), he looked at me with such seriousness and said, "Well in the beginning she was nice enough to me, but when I got to know her and I saw that she drank too much, she smoked, she used foul language and she had a habit of dating married men, there was not much left to find attractive."<P>And although I never go a definitive answer on this, I think my H partially kept in contact with her because she was threatening to embarrass him or me in some way...although I do think he did fall for her hard luck story and her desperate feelings of "love". <P><p>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited November 14, 2000).]

FHL, you wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>she drank too much, she smoked, she used foul language and she had a habit of dating married men<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I did not know that your H was involved with the slug!!! Sheesh - are they all alike?!!<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Dear hurts2much,<P>My H, the WS, said exactly the same thing of a 2 year long A where there were exchanges of expensive gifts and telling the witch the truth all the time and me the lies.<P>Then the A ended, my WS calls it adultery and hate the word affair because he said that adultery was the sin he was trapped in whereas affair is when you are in it because you want to.<P>The adultery ended with WS being knived in the flesh and the witch landing in prison. My beloved father was also hospitalised and passed away soon after the witch screamed, threatened him and revealed the A to him over the phone. I tended to feel that the witch must have gotten ugly later and that made my WS feel nothing towards it. I find it very difficult to believe that one can be held hostage because the WS doesn't want the wife to find out, etc..<P>I couldn't accept that an affair can be so uninvolved for all of 2 years and I am seeing two counsellors now after joint marital counselling. My case is very complicated and it will take some time before the truth surfaces, I think.<P>I hope you find the peace you are looking for.<P>God bless you<BR>weep

Dear Hurts2much:<P>My H (WS) and I have ALWAYS been best friends. Aside from his 5-6 month A, we've always had a very open and honest marriage. We discuss EVERYTHING--from politics, religion, art, cars, football, fashion, baseball, women's soccer, stocks, etc. No subject has ever been taboo--until of course, he became involved with OW.<P>I wish my H came to this forum so he could type his own response--but, that will never happen. So, as best I can, I will try to relate what he's told me about some of his male co-workers--and himself.<P>He says that there are many men out in the business world that get involved with OW for *sport*. That they have NO INTENTION whatsoever of leaving their wives. That they are *in this* only for a little fun on the side. That they believe that it hurts noone as long as the W never finds out.<P>Furthermore, of all the men he knows that have had OW on the side, he only knows of one that WANTED to divorce. All of the other men swore that they would never give up their wives/children to be with OW. That OW was merely a "toy".<P>Now, are these men emotionally attached to these OW? According to my H, yes. Most of them were first physically attracted. Most of these men became emotionally attracted AFTER they ACTED on the physical attraction. <P>In my H's situation, he was first physically attracted. His head was swooning because, low and behold, some YOUNG BABE had the HOTS for him!!!!! And, this could be his one and only chance to SAMPLE some of what his buddies BRAGGED ABOUT. Hey, he wanted some of *that stuff* too! So, he initially #$%@ed her first...the feelings followed. He NEVER dreamt that he'd fall *head over heels* in love with this woman. BUT HE DID. And, although he bargained for the sex, HE DIDN'T bargain for the strong addictive feelings that came along with the A.<P>From what my H says, it would be hard for a man to have an A with someone he WASN't physically attracted to...part of the ego boosting is the "hey, look at what I got!" feeling. Of course, if the whole A was secret and not a *status symbol* of sorts around fellow business men, I guess it would be possible to screw anything <sorry, sounds harsh>....<P>...but then again, I couldn't do it. Even for me, physical attraction is HUGE. I wouldn't have sexual relations with a man that physically repulsed me...or that I didn't feel any vibes for. The physical attraction would have to be there.<P>I still think it's funny that this OW was attracted to my H . I mean, he's cute and all, but even I think I could do better... !!!!<P>Peace, ~Marie<P>P.S. OW was a nonsmoker, college educated, polished business woman....oh, and married as well!<P>------------------<BR>"If you cry because the sun has gone out of your life, your tears will prevent you from seeing the stars." ~unknown

Dear hurts2much,<P>Don't know if it helps in your case but many men, and even godly men who counselled us did say that 'men are turned on by any pair of women's breasts'. In the heat of the moment, even if one doesn't have any feelings or attraction to a woman (they gave the example of a prostitute), some men still can have sex with the woman, which to me is too animalistic. Which if by all descriptions what your H and my WS said are true, then we would need all assurances of acceptable boundaries clearly defined because all women would be OPEN season then. Imagine all the possibilities when you don't care, don't feel attracted to and still can go ahead with sex.<P>My WS said that he was pissed drunk when he was set upon by the witch (a subordinate) so he didn't think about whether he would find her attractive or not, it just happened when in that moment, he allowed it to happen. He said his defences were down and he couldn't think as clearly. Still doesn't mean that he is not responsible. Should have run the next time and so on, but 'protecting the wife from the hurt of the sin' and then later 'protecting himself from sexual harrassment suit' to me are not enough reason to be blackmailed. Must be a very weak person to be so trapped or a trapped person with weak excuses.<P>I understand why you need the truth to be set free, same here. I will pray that my WS reveals the whole truth because this is too much. Like ohmy-Marie, my WS and I talked about a whole lot of stuff and I was a short while ago, a fashion model who graced mags and TVCs and am postgrad educated, and WS said I am a golden find. And the witch? It gapes, drags its feet, has a stunned look on its face and is chinless and likes to brandish little weapons, calls up the world to tell them she is a mistress ( who in their right mind would want the world to know they are a mistress?), threatens lives, sent my beloved father to an early meeting with the Creator, etc..<P>SELFISHNESS - that is a shortcoming that many WS based their choices on. It isn't about you if he said so, and you know so. It is about weaknesses and sin and darkness in their lives. <P>I often pray that God's will be done in my WS's and our marriage and my own life, because all else is vanity.<P>God bless you<BR>weep

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by terri:<BR>[b]FHL, you wrote: [QUOTE]she drank too much, she smoked, she used foul language and she had a habit of dating married men<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I did not know that your H was involved with the slug!!! Sheesh - are they all alike?!!<P><BR>Not all OW are like this, I think some are caught up in a set of bad decisions, but there does seem to be some that have this kind of stuff down to an art form.<P>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited November 15, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by FaithHopeLove (edited November 15, 2000).]