I need to vent now....things are just annoying me too much. Here's why.<P>I went on a business trip this week. I was still checking in because I had internet access at the hotel. I got the really cold sendoff, didn't even come to the door, and when I called to talk to the kids, she had put them to bed already and was cold again. I knew something was up. Recently it had seemed that OM was beginning to be in the friends category (I know, not that simple, but it seemed they we're trying to do that). Anyway, I find out that she put the kids in daycare and took the day off one day I was away. Invited OM to her place for a lunch that day. Well, she used to be really judgemental towards anyone that took a day off but still put their kids in daycare. In our case, that day they would normally have been in half day, but she turned it into the whole thing.<P>Since she was staying at our house, or my house now, since she has moved, I left a cheque for $100 for groceries, just so she could have lots of food for the kids. No groceries were bought. I got home Friday night after everyone was in bed, and in the AM she said she was going away for the weekend. It is to go clubbing with a single friend that I don't like. She is leaving work early, and doesn't want me to tell her boss where she is going.<P>Also, I did more snooping, and saw more chatter about I love you stuff. She told him that she was in deeper than he was, but nevertheless wrote the next day about loving him. So it would appear things are still going strong, at least for her.<P>Anyway, I'm feeling really fed up. I need to find out the details on the daycare thing, and I want to express my displeasure on that, also she can take the $100 and apply that towards our part time daycare costs.<P>But I just once again question what kind of Plan A can I do given how mad I am getting at her continued denial that anything is going on, at her lack of morals that she has developed, at her spending habits (she is going to go broke). Some of the things I consider telling her are:<P>1) That I've seen everything typed on the PC for the past 3 months (Huge LB)<BR>2) That she doesn't deserve to have the kids at all (LB)<BR>3) That I'm disgusted that she hangs around this single friend (she is bad news...one night stands etc.) (LB)<BR>4) That my love for her cannot go on forever under these circumstances, and that I have anger and resentment, but that I continue to seek reconciliation because I read enough to know that people can recover<BR>5) That instead of spending time with the kids, she runs around spending money on events, friends, dinners, trips, etc. (LB)<BR>6) That the kids someday will hear the truth if they ask me, when they get older (LB)<P>.... and many more things.<P>This morning I just couldn't wait for her to leave the house, because I look at her from across the table, and wonder "who is this person". I see this face and think of all the lies, her "love" for OM, and what she is doing to the kids, and I am sickened. I also question if she is the type that could ever break down and say "I'm sorry, I made a mistake". She can be stubborn, and isn't open to counselling and the whole help thing.<P>I wonder if her level of lying is worse than others, same as others or what? She lies about money, who goes places, of course being with OM, you name it, she lies about it now. Told me she is going shopping this weekend, but what she wrote was "going dancing at the clubs". Can't even tell me one simple truth.<P>I get the token "I missed you" this morning. I dont' think that was at all sincere. Just to fill in time and passify me.<P>Sometimes I wonder if it is fog or is she just ruthless and nasty now. She is so drastically different, it must be the fog, but it is hard when you get all caught up in it.<P>The reason why I can maybe keep Plan A going is because the kids are still with me, so her real separation hasn't really started yet. We haven't told the kids, and she hasn't experienced being alone with them at her place, or not seeing them for a few days because they are with me. I guess the fantasy hasn't cracked much yet. So perhaps it will, since it usually does. So maybe I should hang on for that.<P>Here are some questions:<P>1. When the kids are told, and they are with her half time, she'll want to continue to do family stuff. I guess I should go along with it. However, I am wondering if I should be just not so available when I have the kids, and take them out early for the day, such that she doesn't always get her way. I want her to experience some changes under separation status, otherwise she has all the worlds the way she wants them.<P>2. Sometimes I want to alter my approach, such as go out on dates, and just be honest with her. I believe that if she senses me dating someone else it will bother her, and she won't like to picture someone else ever being the woman of this house. She told me that a long time ago. However, of course this goes against all of Plan A and my goals. Anyone ever employ this strategy? I know you'll give me a blast for even thinking about it. But I'm just fed up and want to rock the boat sometimes.<P>3. Telling her about how I know so much is more on my mind now. But that could get things nasty.<P>Well, that is enough for now. This is way too long. Any support appreciated. Maybe I just need a push.

Sometimes you have to know when enough is<BR>enough. Why would you want to love this person. Are you going to wait until she<BR>totally self destructs and possibly you and your children? How much more humiliation are<BR>you willing to endure? When you are separated<BR>or divorced you have a right to look for<BR>someone else and find happiness in your life.<BR>You are worth so much more than her. Why do<BR>you settle for scraps. You and your children<BR>deserve a real family made up of people who<BR>have values to teach your children. What is<BR>she teaching them. Your wife may not be the<BR>only one who is in a fog Rick. Good Luck<BR>

If you feel you cannot continue Plan A without LB's, then maybe it is time for Plan B. Have you read Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley and his daughter Jennifer? If not, then I would suggest that you read it - your situation sounds quite similar to the situation described in the book.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Sometimes I get tired of being a doormat. I'm at the end. I've been plan A'ing for so long now that I've grown tired. And yes I do the same thing - look at him & wonder who he is, what kind of person he's become because he's the not the man I married. I think about all the things he's contributed to me life recently, the way he's treated me & it's pretty pathetic. If I hadn't taken that vow I would have left long ago. We set ourselves up for abuse. And why? Because we still love our spouses & believe that our marriages can be rebuilt. But they make it so difficult to carry on...My H just complained to me that every time we get into a fight that I run to MB. I pointed out to him that if it wasn't for MB & our newborn son, I wouldn't have the strenth to fight. So now he thanks the people on MB for helping me. He's been LBing for 3 days now. We're not supposed to & yet we allow them to LB all the time. It's so frustrating - that's why we need to vent here.<BR>Sounds as if you are ready for Plan B. Maybe that will be her wake up call. My H's fantasy carried over from the A into our life. He actually believed that if we split up, he would live near me & visit every day. I pointed out that he would become a part-time dad & I a part-time mom to our newborn son. What is he joking?? He's going to share all the good that's in our lives but forget the rest of the stuff??? They're seriously deluded. There - I vented too!

Rick,<P>Sorry about how it is going with you. Don't have much advice. I have never done Plan B because every time I am ready, my WS makes me think things are better. They are not, he is just using me as a housekeeper, caregiver for our sons while we are in Singapore, while he stocks up money. <P>But back to you, I would try & hold everything till after the Holidays & then hit her with it around Jan 15th. This way your kids will not have to associate their family splitting with the holidays. <P>Wish you could get custody.<P>Remeber you can vent anytime. Your in prayers.

Rick37 -<P>I think you have already gotten some good advice. The only thing I want to comment on was the last part of your post when you said something to the effect of dating other women - don't do that until the divorce is final. You will probably regret it, and you would be no better than your wife - don't bring anymore people into this mess until everything is resolved. I know that's not fair to you, but you're the one with morals, remember?

I don't have much time to post right now, but just wanted to say I've read everything posted, and appreciate all the advice.<P>And SKM, I won't complicate things by dating. As lonely as it gets, I know that would spell trouble. Just need to hear it sometimes.<P>I was looking at family photos last night, and it provides me more energy to keep doing whatever Plan I need to save my marriage. How it unfolds, who knows. Time will tell.

Hi Rick,<P>I really sympathize with your pain. I don't know why our WS's lie all the time; in my book the lies are worse than the affair. You can forgive an affair as a "mistake", but the continual, daily lies just make you wonder who on earth you're married to!<P>I too have done some snooping, and it is definitely frustrating (an understatement) to see how they constantly lie, and how much in love (infatuation) they are. It really sucks, I just want to ask my W sometimes if she has any idea what the heck she is doing. But I know she doesn't...<P>I'm near the end of my rope too. She is continuing contact with OM, while I'm plan A'ing and trying to run the household. Unfortunately, I'm realizing more and more every day that this is not an arrangement that's good for me or for the kids. The kids see their parents in separate bedrooms, see that they get all the hugs and kisses while the parents hardly touch each other, etc. I'm not sure this is the kind of "staying together for the kids" that I want to do. I want my kids to see loving parents, who are friends and partners in life. We ain't anywhere near that right now.<P>I want to be able to live my life, and right now I feel like I'm just wasting my life. My timeframe also seems to hover right around the holidays. Y2K has been the worst year of my life; I have no intentions of making 2001 a carbon copy.<P>Hang in there, buddy; I'm rooting for all of us!<p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited November 19, 2000).]

AGoodGuy,<P>I too am disappointed at the effect on the kids of never seeing their parents show any affection. We used to hug in front of the kids, and they loved it, you could see it in their faces. Now for the past 8 months or so, none of that. We did one day about a week or 2 ago, and they said, "what are you guys doing?". That made me sad because obviously this phase has had an impact.<P>I know none of us want the "stay together for the kids and be unhappy" scenario. We want stay together and make a happy marriage. I don't envision it being unhappy if we make it. Otherwise there would be no point.<P>I don't know your story, but with what you said it certainly sound all too familiar. Hang in there too.<BR>

Rick,<P>If you can keep from it don't tell your W that you can read what she has been up to on the computer. I would give anything to be able to break into my H's email. Then I would really know what is going, instead of waiting for him to blindside me. Just a thought.

Dear Rick,<P>I am so sorry that you do have a difficult situation. But you do have the patience of Job. I hope you can commit your wife and marriage to God and allow God to do the miracles.<P>I wouldn't be able to stay in a marriage that has been defiled let alone continue to when the spouse is not committed to repairing. When your wife finally moves out, she may see things clearer. <P>I think you have the answers to your questions and they will become clearer as you start living apart. You have given your wife the upperhand in this situation and she is abusing the trust. Please protect yourself and the children from further heartbreaks by being steadfast in your decisions. Please discuss with your wife how to break the news to the children because they do not need confusing information or disinformation but need to hear the news from both of you together without frightening scenes.<P><BR>God bless you<BR>take care<BR>weep

Dear Sing<P>"Snoop Tricks for Betrayed Spouses"<P>at <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000480.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000480.html</A> <P>Can be an entertaining read. <P>Please take steps to protect yourself and the sons. Document the amount of time you spend with your sons, the things you do, increase your expenses and get a larger allowance. Document the amount of time your H is away and the stuff he does and says with and to the boys.<P>It is good that you are aware of the possibility of what your H is intending to do. Do you wish to save your marriage because maybe able to work since you are so far away from OW. Besides looking and working to look ravishing, engage in more social activities that add to your life. Be full of life, and let it seep into your H's brain that he is losing someone precious.<P>May you pray that your H loves you as you commit him and the marriage and family to God. May you pray for hedges of protection around your H and marriage that no lover gets to him and vice versa. I wouldn't be sane if not for God who revealed the A to me in visions and dreams. <P>God bless you <BR>take care<BR>weep<P>PS . sorry Rick, just needed to post to sing as well but can't find her thread.

Rick - sorry for the late reply. IMHO, don't stop Plan A yet. Your separation is just underway and there's a lot of water to flow under the bridge before she'll experience all she needs to. I'm at three months out and I see some progress. Don't forget PTC. You've dome incredibly so far, just roll with the down days and setbacks. The holiday season approaching brings with it many influences that should be allowed to play out. I'm no where close to Plan B, so in my biased view, neither should you be.<P>WAT

I agree with staying in A a bit longer if at all possible. However, it is a constant re-evaluation of the level of patience we're capable of. Frustration ranks very high, I know.It's not easy! Try to hang in there as hard as it may be. As far as dating goes...I have had those very same ideas swirling around in my head, but have decided against it. My heart is absolutely not in it--I am still in love with my husband. There is no point to trying to make our marriage work if I am out dating again. Sort of counterproductive. Besides, it would be no better than what he is doing and make me feel awful, I just know it. Actually it may give our WS a reason to justify their actions!<BR>AR<BR>