Hi There! Hope you are doing well. I'm not and needed to ask you about something that you commented on earlier this week.<P>In my post a couple of days ago you replied about hitting a time when you had a hard time with your H not being in love with you. I've hit that and am wondering how you dealt with it. I am really wondering how I can go on acting and treating him like he is the love of my life when he honestly tells me that he doesn't love me. I really think I'm starting to lose love for him. I can hardly tell him that I love him any more because it is so painful to not hear it back.<P>How long did it take for him to find that love again? It's been 7 1/2 months since Dday for us, but he just finally broke off their relationship at the beginning of September. Like I've posted, though, she still contacts him. It literally is sending me into a tailspin these last couple of weeks. Ever since we got back from Disney, I've been obsessing about it again and am not doing very well. I had an appt with the psychiatrist this morning and he increased my anti d's, but how much longer can I go on just increasing my meds? I feel like I'm not dealing with the problems correctly. I may call and make an appt with the Harleys next week, just to get back on the right track.<P>I am so frustrated with myself. I was doing so well, and now am spiraling back downward. Does this go on forever???<P>I feel like I want to just leave home for awhile so I don't have to deal with this crap any more. What's really scary, is this week, thoughts of separation have been going through my mind. I know that's not what I really want, but the thoughts have been there. It's just so much easier to deal with when he's gone........<P>I need to get out of this frame of mind, quickly.....

back to the top for Schizzo, I see your back.....<P>I'll be replying on your other thread. I am so sorry that you're not doing so well right now. Neither am I. Life sucks sometimes, doesn't it!<P>I also posted yesterday "I need help---fast", which is my most recent update......<P>Hope to hear from you soon!

Have you let your husband know that you came across that e-mail from the OW giving him a time table as to make a decision between you and her???

Bonnie Sept----yes, I did let him know about the email, just not about the attachment that I was able to open. I "confronted" him via email (which seems better for us), and he was truthful. He even attached part of her letter in his email (so maybe he knows I read that too, I don't know)<P>We talked about it quite a bit last night, and I do think that he is being honest now. He says that he doesn't plan on leaving, but just can't let go of her until he's sure that things won't go back to the way they were. Anyway, hopefully she'll actually walk away if he tells her, or we get to Jan 14 and he's still living here.....I just fear she won't really do it that she'll keep after him for a really long time.<P>If that's the case, he'll have to get a different job. No questions about it!<P>Thanks for asking.....

Hi hurtin,<P>I was away for a few days, then the holidays hit, and I never do catch up! I must be nuts, but I see a big problem at my son's school and I want to jump in! I was an auditor/consultant for 12 years and I know I could help this dear lady regain control of the financial mess her employees have created, but I feel pulled in a hundred different directions. I only have a week and a half, then I'm travelling again.<P>I'm not sure what comment of mine you are referring to. I think it was when I said that we were doing fine, then got STUCK and I mean stuck in affair discussions.<P>He was clear about not being "in-love" with me from the beginning. As you see, I still have troubles with that.<P>Please don't beat yourself up. While some have done great Plan As, I could not try to rebuild if she was still in the picture. Marie has expressed similar feelings. On the other hand, Lostva's h was also working with OW and it seems she allowed the contact, which was not just professional.<P>Harley is very clear that rebuilding begins when the A is over. It would still be difficult even if it was just professional.<P>Did you ask him about the email? I would have to know. It could be just her trying to push him or he could be holding her in the wings to see how things go with you first. I could not accept the second one, I don't see how recovery could occur that way at all.<P>It is very common, though, that WS try to hold on with one hand or let the OW down easy...<P>Did you talk to Steve Harley?<P>Yes, it bothered me that he was in-love with someone else and told me he had NEVER been with me. It hurt, but I strogly believe that love is not some magic "thing", that it is created following Harley's rules. I held on to the hope that it would change for us. I think it was about seven months after he broke off contact that I truly believed he was in-love with me. It just clicked one day.<P>I hope you are doing a bit better...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but just can't let go of her until he's sure that things won't go back to the way they were. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I see we were posting at the same time. I could not allow this, but that's me. He would have to take that risk, as you and I are taking a big risk by taking the WS back.<P>I think I could plan A from a distance, if he was living somewhere else, but not if he held onto her while trying to "work things out".

Hi There Schizzo! Thanks so much! Yes, I did ask him about the email, and he didn't deny it, and even included some of her letter in his reply to me (which he didn't know I had already seen). <P>I do have a huge problem with him hanging on to her, just to make sure. I just don't know for sure what to do about it. I have an appt with Steve H next Wednesday, so I'm hoping that he'll give me some direction, and just plan on hanging in there until then.<P>What I struggle with so much is that he is very clear about not loving me, and that he still loves her very much. It came so natural for them, he told me last night (see my reply on your other post for more of this story). How did you accept that and live with it? I just get very depressed about that and it makes me want to forget this whole thing and move on alone. <P>I just want this to end.......<P>Hope you're doing better.....

I have to say I agree with Schizzo. I think a spouse that keeps the wayward spouse in the home knowing full well that they are seeing somebody else does not show them in the best light to the cheater. So if I understand right he in a round about way told you that he's not giving her up just yet so he has her to fall back on if you screw up. Doesn't sound like he puts much faith in your relationship. And, believe it or not, ultimatums do sometimes work. As you may or may not know, I was once the ow and "he" too sat on the fence between his wife and me. At that point I was sickened by all of the lies, the sneaking and the frustration/saddness that affairs caused. He had told his wife that he loved me and wanted to leave, he know longer loved her. She threatened to take his kids from him and begged him to at least give the marriage a try. I went away, told him to work on his marriage and to have no contact with me. That lasted awhile when he finally contacted me, wanted to see me. I told him I refused to ever be involved with a married man again. In a sense that was an ultimatum even though I didn't mean it that way. He left his wife the following morning. What he "saw" when he contacted me was a person getting on with my life. Inside I thought I would die. I knew I loved him but that we were finished and I was in the process of going through my divorce. But, when I talked to him I kept it light, upbeat. Talked about my work etc.....and he said "How can you just get on with your life? How can you be so happy?" I told him that I didn't have a choice. What he saw was me not excepting him for what he wanted to offer and moving on with my life. What he saw at home was his wife begging, crying and telling him over and over that she didn't care if he loved somebody else because having him there with no love was better then him not being there at all. She felt she loved enough for both. In the end he left his marriage. I'm telling you this because just maybe in your case if you show him that your important enough to not be shared or second to somebody else and that you deserve better. Tell him your unwilling to just sit by while he tortures you. Maybe if he felt he was out if he couldn't/wouldn't work 100% at your marriage. You see, he still does tell you he doesn't want to leave and he does say he still has feelings for you right? That's a start, a good start but you need to be strong and stand up for yourself. Right now the OW looks like the strong one. She told him you either give 100% to me or I'm out of here and I'm perfectly capable of getting on with my life. She looks strong, you look weak...even if that is not the case at all.

Thanks so much BonnieSept. I have to go bring my 3 year old to preschool in a few minutes and am going to the health club. I'm going to be thinking about the excellent advice and will reply later today when I'm back!<P>Thanks!

Hon,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What I struggle with so much is that he is very clear about not loving me, and that he still loves her very much. It came so natural for them, he told me last night (see my reply on your other post for more of this story). How did you accept that and live with it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You answered this in your post to me, but I know it still hurts even when we know the answer. Of course it came so natural; it is the giddiness of new sparks added to a "perfect" situation with no reality to get in the way. Has he also told you he never loved you? My h did.<P>The best thing I did is to ignore what he said, and give myself the love I needed and remind myself of God's love for me. I also had a mental time limit - I think it was six months, I told myself if he was still saying the same things, he was outta here.<P>Do think about what Bonnie said. Whether you look at it as an ultimatum or you setting the rules for him being there, you could require him to break it off before you are willing to continue "working on it".<P>But don't rush it, talk to Steve H. first.

BonnieSept--sorry about the long delay. Things just didnt' go as planned last night. But then again, with 3 kids, not many things usually do, right? Oh, well. I thought a lot about what you said yesterday. I know that you are right on in what you say. I talked to H last night about this dragging on further and he said that he just needs to see some progress. I've been LBing a lot lately (being a *****, he says), and really need to get back on track with Plan Aing. He did talk last night about more of his EN, and what he would like to see. At least now, I have a clue as to what it is he wants.<P>Originally, the OW gave him a date of Jan 14 (coincidentally, my birthday) to have a decision made. If he doesn't have one, then she's walking away. This morning I asked him in a very non LBing way that I would really like to know where things stand before Christmas. He said, then you know what you need to do, you're in the drivers seat and it's yours for the taking, not hers. <P>I'm really hoping that Steve H will guide me on this next Wed, but for now, I'll just hold on as long as I can. The way I have to look at it right now, is after 8 months of this, I can do it for 4 more weeks. If at that time he leaves, then I know that I did everything that I could.<P><BR>Schizzo---Yes, I am trying very hard to focus on myself, but sometimes just get back to the mindset of this is all for him. Deep down, though, I know it's not. But would I really be wearing these uncomfortable Victoria's Secret underwear if it weren't for him??<P>He's not actually said that he has never loved me, but he said that he doesn't know if it's ever been in the really romantic way. They clearly had a very romantic, passionate relationship and that apparently is what he's looking for from me, too. They never had 3 kids to contend with, though.....

I'm sorry but......I'M GONNA BLOW!!! I'm glad I'm not married to your husband because I'd be love busting all over the place. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but basically he's telling you to be the perfect little wife and you might get lucky and win out over the girlfriend huh? I'm sorry but his attitude and his behavior really pisses me off. It stinks. What he is doing to you stinks. Your taking care of his 3 kids and kissing his butt. I'm sorry if it's against Plan A I think he needs a big dose of what he's up against. He's playing with you. I'm sorry but he is. It's exactly what I said in my past post about him knowing that you'll take what he dishes out because you don't want him to leave. I'm mad so i might be blowing it out of proportion but if it were me I can honestly see me saying in this really sweet voice "Honey, I'm tired of watching you fence sit. I'm tired of you playing games with me and I'm better then this. I don't deserve this. I deserve a man that treats me with respect and love. Sorry, babe, you don't do that. Get off the fence or out the door because right now I'm even having second thoughts if I WANT you!"

I think Bonnie make some valid points.<P>Plan A is not about competing with the OP. (Let's face it there is no way you can win that competition.) It's about being the best you that is possible. Fighting for your marriage is truly worthwhile but don't lose yourself while doing it. There were a couple of posters over on recovery who tried to compete with the OW and literally lost themselves in doing so. Two years later they are still trying to rebuild their self-esteem.<P> It seems like your H is pitting you against the OP-if you do all the right things then you win the prize-him. Of course you have got to figure out what the right things are. Almost impossible.<P>Hopefully you can get some guidance from Steve H.<p>[This message has been edited by KalGrl (edited November 29, 2000).]

Guess I hit a nerve, Bonnie! Why is it so hard to finally be ready to say those things? I know that it's not a competition---why would I want to compete with a slut that sleeps with married men? Seriously, though, I guess I just don't know for sure what to do. Ultimatum will make him bolt right out the door. LIke our counselor kept saying all summer---he's not capable of making the decision. So, in effect, he's letting her make it for him. However, if he doesn't start to work on our marriage, I won't stand for that, either. At some point he's got to be willing to do his part. I am just praying that once she's out of the picture, he'll be able to do that.....<P>KalGirl---thanks for the reply. I am slowly gaining some self esteem. It's always been a problem for me, so this has made it even worse. However, I've lost 70 pounds, so I have a lot to be proud of and am starting to feel good about myself. I'm not going to chase around doing things for him, that's for sure. It's got to be good for me, too. Yes, I am hoping Steve H can help me out here---if he has a different plan in mind, maybe it's time that I try something else.....<P>Thanks again, everyone!

Congrats on all of that weight loss. You must feel wonderful. Work on you....be busy and exciting. Turn it around and make him want you!

Hi again...<P>It's a fine line and I'm not sure where it is sometimes in my own life so I couldn't begin to tell you...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes, I am trying very hard to focus on myself, but sometimes just get back to the mindset of this is all for him. Deep down, though, I know it's not.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not sure what you understood from what I said. I am often too brief to be clear.<P>What I meant is that if you are looking to him to reinforce your self-esteem (as I certainly was) and my feelings would go up an down based on his treatment of me, it's time to change your focus.<P>Sounds corny, but I would look at myself in the mirror and say the things to myself I wished I was hearing from him. I would literally give myself the love I needed. Can't even say I read that anywhere, but it was incredible for my self-esteem.<P>So the only plan A I did were those things that I wanted to do anyway. Like buy new clothes. (While I was in shape, I failed the attractive spouse badly on presentation, I would go around in torn t-shirts with drippy breast milk - I know, yuck).<P>I refused to do anything that would feel like I was kissing his butt. And my h cut contact first, with no assurance things would work out.<P>Dobson has a book called "Tough Love" I've heard a lot about, but haven't read yet. It's a different approach from plan A.<P><BR>

Hey Schizzo---<P>Self Esteem---what a complex issue! Yes, I am totally looking to him for it. And yes, my feelings change in accordance with how he treats me.<P>I am starting to build a little of it back. Going to the gym has really helped. Not only do I feel and look better, but there are men there that have looked at me. That sure is a boost! I find myself very, very quickly looking away and am actually embarrassed by it.<P>I just find it so hard to get out of the loop of doing things just to please him. Clothes for example. His comment the other night was he likes more fitted shirts with V necks. The V neck thing I don't have a problem with, but the fitted thing, I do. Mainly because I am VERY self conscious about myself and feel like I do not look good. Maybe if he'd tell me that I do look good, I'd feel better about wearing stuff like that. I did wear a shirt like that while we were in Florida and felt somewhat ridiculous. I figured I wouldn't be visiting Charley's Steakhouse any time soon, so it didn't matter too much.....<P>Had to laugh about the drippy breast milk shirts! I just stopped nursing a few weeks ago, so I've been there for the last 6 months!<P>I have read "Tough Love" and it is different, but yet similar to Plan A. I have kind of used Dobson's theory in conjunction with Harley. One of the points is setting the spouse free. Like a caged bird, once that door is open, it doesn't look quite as good as they thought that it did. He really emphasizes the phrase "If you love something let it go. If it returns, it is yours to keep. If not, then it was never yours in the beginning."<P>Man, I just want this over. It is really starting to take it's toll on me emotionally!! The scary thing is, I know this is just the beginning. Once he actually breaks it off with her, I have a feeling we're in for the next half of the rollercoaster ride. <P>I wonder how many more times they are going to up my Paxil dose before I'm a total walking zombie!<P>I was wondering---did you ever separate with your H?

hurtinginil - Question: What do you think of the Paxil? My doctor has suggested either that or Zolaft (I tried Prozac once, and it didn't work worth a da*n.). But my friend Jane gained 30 lbs in a little over two months when she went on Paxil I'm working on losing the last 10 lbs from my Depo weight gain, and I don't want an anti-dep to make be balloon up (then I would be depressed, no matter how good the drug was!) Have you had any side effects with it?

Hi CB! <P>I actually have lost weight on Paxil. My dr said it goes either way. But since I have a tendency to gain weight very easily, I was actually surprised that I lost weight with it.<P>The only side effect that I've noticed is that I tend to be sleepier and have a hard time waking up in the morning. Other than that, I've had very good luck with it. It really stabalizes my emotions and I can deal with things much better. Before I cried constantly, and I still do occasionally, but it is not even close to what it was like before.<P>I would recommend it.....

I actually hit my lowest point emotionally a month or two ago. I would just weep without trying to control it and allowed myself to barely function for awhile. I never touched meds. Not saying it's good or bad, I just wanted to do it without them.<P>It seemed like I might never regain control, but I think it was very healthy, and yes, it was after our marriage had stabilized.<P>No, my h never separated. He told me he wanted to move out before d-day, and I did just that, set him free. He was surprised.<P>I don't know about the clothes. It doesn't hurt to stretch beyond our comfort zone, but I think you should do it for you, not for him.<P>Now I really have to read Dobson's book, because I thought it was quite the opposite of Plan A.<P>The other book, Passionate Marriage, is making all the sense in the world to me. I went through the whole self-image thing this year. Not just doing things, but loving myself, seeking to feel God's love for me.<P>In the book, he describes couples that look to each other for validation as emotionally fused. It is only when we can be self-validated that we can grow emotionally and be "differentiated".<P>Paradoxically, now that my h is loving me so well (most of the time), I don't need him to like I used to. I need him less and less each day, but I WANT him more.<P>I struggled along with the self-image thing for the past 14 months, not knowing any of this stuff. Maybe it is because I discovered so much of it on my own, that the book rings true.<P>There is a lot of pain on this rollercoaster, but I would not trade this past year for anything. And I mean this, whether my marriage lasts or not. I feel so free! <p>[This message has been edited by schizzo (edited November 30, 2000).]