Dear friends, this post might end up a long one, I'll try to be as short as possible, but please read it and respon, I feel like on the end of a rope, desperately need your help ... <P>Today early morning I downoladed messages from my H's account and guess what I found: forwarded e-mail originally posted from H's aunt (living abroad) to OW saying it was a pleasant surprise she contacted them back, it's nice she informed them about her birthday, (of course sent her best wishes), they are happy they now have her e-mail address, and due to not having it erlier they didn't want to contact her because it could cause some trouble to THEM BOTH (H and OW). Also said they are very happy hearing she liked it there with them (now I know H was at aunt's place with her), and offered to come any time they (H&OW) find some free time. Aunt also said she's so happy seeing them both happy and her heart is now so peaceful seeing her nephiew being sooo happy. Wished them both a lot of happiness, health and great days in their future... <P>Sooo ... till now I was more convinced it was EA, had some doubts whether it turned to PA during their last business trip at the beginning of September, but now I'm almost sure it turned to PA. Honestly I don't know what is the present status of the A, how often they contact, etc. Just know her appartment is very close (only few hundreds of meters) from where H lives now. <P>OW forwarded this e-mail (which was obviously an aunt's reply to OW's mail to her) to my H's e-mail address in the company. I'm almost sure she KNOWS I have access to all his e-mails because H gave me all passwords, and this account I shared with him for some time, I do occasionally even nowadays; they both know it. H didn't change any password, never even attempted. <P>My first reaction was shock, it took all my energy to hold myself and not react. Then I thought this way: OW was recently transfered to other dept, and she KNOWS very well A was the reason for that (she already had 2 affairs with married men in the same company, so her boss is really angry this time). She threated to complain. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is her attempt to force him to decide- her or me. <P>For those who don't know much abot my situation, here it is: <BR>D day was mid May 00, ten days later he said he knows where he wants to be, where his place is and agreed immediately to accept marriage therapy offer. At that time already on antidepressants due to depression caused by many unsolved issues with his parents, also some problems on the job. At tht time he already shown signs of bad self-esteem, asked himself lots of "big" questions like Who I am, what I want etc. (sounds like MLC, but he's only 37!)<BR>He decided to open with me, we spent a lot of time together, I devoted all my time and energy to him, sometimes even neglected my job, house, child ... everything. <P>But, my gut told me somethin's wrong, still. He broke down completely last week of July, and attempted suicide; told me later this was because of her and the fact he couldn't stand I want him and she doesn't. It was only her game to push him to her side, I know that now, because few days later, when he was completely broken and in the hospital, slowly turning to me and realising how stupid he was committing such a horrible thing, she came to him and said, OK, now I want you ... <P>He then broke completely, didn't want to see me, two weeks later decided he wouln't come home after the hospital, but decided to stay at his brother's place "to sort himself out and see what he wants in life". <P>It's now 11th week passing since we're separated (Sept 1st he checked out of the hospital). I know OW is very "sticky" person and my H is weak when it comes to decision making, he's typical conflict avoider. No major development happened in those weeks. I try to plan A the best I can, I never mention OW talking to him, and try to make pleasant atmosphere when he' here with me and D. <P>When I try to summarize this period, I find some pro's and contra's for me to keep Plan Aing. On the PRO side: <BR>- He never mentioned divorce, except once, on the day he attempted suicide. The day he came to pick up his things, we talked shortly about property settlement, and he says he doesn't think we came that far. We never talked about it later. <BR>- Every time when I go on business trip (twice in the last 11 weeks, usually lasts 5-6 days) he comes home and stays with our D, takes good care of all domestic stuff. During that period we contact on a daily basis. <P>- Since the day I left for my first business trip (Oct 14) he called or sent SMSes almost every day. Sent even some signs of affection (Smileys, or a kiss, here and there). <P>- He visits us quite often, and when home, acts pretty normally, never refuse kiss, hug or caress (although I'm usually the one who initiates it, not always, but it's always kiss in a mouth). <P>- He never took all his things, in fact, he took only some clothes he now wears. When stayed at home in Oct, he left some of summer shirts at home and took two winter shirts with him. Also left some underware, toothbrush ... Everything else (books, documents, his hobby stuff...) is still here in our apartment. <BR> <BR>- He still takes care of our D, although I have to say she can't rely on him (sometimes he says he would call, but doesn't, or would come on Tuesday, but comes on Friday)<P>- When I said I'm going to delete him from the list of our building's inhabitants (why should I pay for 3 if there are only 2 persons living in the appartment now), he objected. Said it's only temporary. <P>- I now take care of loans, bills, credit cards and all bank accounts, and he never showed any intention to split our joint accounts. In fact, he always asks me how much money is left for him when I take a part for D and costs we have to share. He lets me know about every cost he makes on credit cards, because I manage them. <P>- We talked only twice about our relationship, very briefly, and both time he told me he cares, and knows I care about us, and he wants me to be here. But both times I asked him openly to tell me. <P>- Last but not least, we have a 12.5yo D, 13 years of marriage and 16.5 years together, and we are colleagues by education, share a lot of interests, including sports. Even now, in hospital he told me he's not sorry for a single moment spent with me. He didn't want this to happen, but it happened, says. <P>On the CONTRA side: <P>- Nothing happens in those 11 weeks, I see no change in his attitude or will to come closer to us, nor he showed any intention to discuss our more permanent separation, divorce, moving to OW's place, nothing. Why should he, after all, when all his family support him - his brother covers apartment costs (all), father gave him his car at disposal, aunt and other family members approve his A, even help him to hush it, hide it from me. <P>- I don't know it it would be possible, even if we reconcile, to survive in such a hostile environment for me - all his family rejected me almost instantly after suicide attempt, blamed me for all what happened to him in the last 13 yrs, blame me for his suicide attempt ("he was unhappy all those years, you forced him to marry you for your pregnancy ..."), blamed me for being very possesive, even to that extent I want him, no matter alive or in the grave. (COMPLETELY UNTRUE! - I oferred him to go if he wants, not once.) <BR>Right, you might say who cares for the family, but I was told by our therapist their very open hate for me comes out from his words - HE told them I made him marry me because I was pregnant (that's allegidly what he answered her when she asked him does he have any idea where this hate comes from). <BR>But, many times before I heard from him he married me because he wanted to, and he did it willingly, is not sorry for a single moment spent with me .... Jesus, whom should I believe now - what is the real H of mine, I don't know any more what to think and what to do ... <P>Pleaase, I need your advice, I need you to tell me am I reading too much in his behaviour, do I hope too much, is there any sense to try saving this marriage when everybody is obviously supporting him, when there is so much lies around me. <P>He is typical conflict avoider, and I'm almost sure he told his parents what they wanted to hear from him. Or it's fog talking from him? <BR>But how can I cope with such a character, the only thing that can help me overcome resentments and memories if he decides to work on our marriage is honesty. I'm not sure would I ever get it from him. <P>He used to be such a kind and gentle guy. wonderful father, I never felt neglected or not loved (maybe a bit in recent times, when this sterted to hppen, but definitely not before). I simply cannot understand what ws wrong, I always took care of all his EN - I was here for him any time he needed me, he knew well he could call me in the middle of meeting or wake me up at 3 AM if he needed me, we talked a lot about everything, we had great sex life, we shared many of house jobs and he never required from me to have everything prepared - if I could make it, OK, if not, never mind, I will do it tomorrow, or whenever I have time. I thought we're getting along pretty well. We always seemed so happy together, for many of those who know us we were a model couple. <P>Please, I need your words, your thoughts, I need someone to keep me going on, this is already too hard for me. I don't have my family, no one who can support me. My daughter is the only person in the world who needs me now. <P>Thank you for reading such a long post. I had to vent, this keeps me alive. <P>Adrian <BR>

Dear Adrian:<P>Not in order of your topics, But I noticed that your marriage is 13 years old. So is ours. D-day was days after our 12th wedding anniversary. I have noticed others here married that long. Just a coincidence but it struck me. We have a son who will turn 12 soon.<P>Next, what kind of an evil Aunt does your H have, to be supporting an extramarital affair, allying herself with the OW? That's outrageous. If you confront your H with the e-mail, be prepared to have him wax indigant about your not respecting his privacy, spying on him. (Ask me how I know this!)<P>"OW forwarded this e-mail (which was obviously an aunt's reply to OW's mail to her) to my H's e-mail address in the company. I'm almost sure she KNOWS I have access to all his e-mails because H gave me all passwords, and this account I shared with him for some time, I do occasionally even nowadays; they both know it. H didn't change any password, never even attempted. "<P>You've got her number. She's devious and WANTS you to knnow about this, to undermine your already shakey relationship. No suggestion as to best way to deal with this. If you're a direct, confrontational person, you may want to go head to head with your H. If you're a woman with feminine wiles (How I wish I were!) you would recognize this as her tactic to drive the wedge between you and your H deeper, and not let him know, but keep the intelligence to yourself, as a smart spy. I don't know which course would be ultimately smarter in restoring your marriage.<P>"(she already had 2 affairs with married men in the same company, so her boss is really angry this time)."<P>Ugh. scummy.<P>" She threated to complain. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is her attempt to force him to decide- her or me."<P>Hmm. She could be about to make a stupid mistake. See above, about which course to take: confront or keep knowledge to self. She could be about to do a major Love Buster.<P>" asked himself lots of "big" questions like Who I am, what I want etc. (sounds like MLC, but he's only 37!)"<P>There's a site on the web about mid life crisis. I don't think you have to be 40 exactly to undergo a MLC. <P>""I try to plan A the best I can, I never mention OW talking to him, and try to make pleasant atmosphere when he' here with me and D. "<P>Smart girl.<P>"- When I said I'm going to delete him from the list of our building's inhabitants (why should I pay for 3 if there are only 2 persons living in the appartment now), he objected. Said it's only temporary. " Good sign.<P>I'll post more later. Gotta leave for an appointment. Hang in there. Say a prayer. It will calm you down.<P>Love,<BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Adrian,<P>I'm at work, and can't write much now. But, please just remain calm and don't read so much into this. We all do it, I was fed up early weekend and you helped me alot. I need to read your post again when I am home tonight, and I want to respond again. But, from where I sit, I think this shouldn't change anything. It is sickening to read, but much of what we read and hear is. It hits like a ton of bricks, but that is when we most need to realize that this "fog" phenomena is unimaginable and difficult to understand, and thus a single event should not be our focus. Hang in there...we're all here.

Thanks a lot, Belle and Rick, <P>your posts mean a world to me now. I have to pick up my D from school soon, so I'll be short now, but just to let you know as you asked me - ALL family members, including parents and brothers support him having an A! Sometimes I really think they're all ready for mental institution. NEVER, not a single once no one of them even tried to tell him how awfull this is to his wife and child. They consider me his problem and blame me for his suiocide attempt. They claim he was never happy in this marriage, and finally ghe found somebody who truly understands him and loves him! <P>For godness sake, he always keep saying me how happy he is in this marriage and that I allow him to realize himself, I let him be what he is. Who is crazy here? <P>Please, keep posting me, I need it now. <P>Love, <P>Adrian

I came back home. In the meantime I had a chance to talk with close friend of mine, working in H's company. She said when it comes to intrigues, OW is well known there. Said OW is absolutely capable of doing such things like contacting family members or making intrigues behind someone's back. Allegidly her A#1 in the company was a big issue. Also, she was transfered twice by now, always after A was revealed. <P>This is not the first time I found out she's working behind my back. At the time H was in the hospital, she once called the staff there and demanded to stop all visits to him, because he's not able to have visits (too disturbed, to tired, she said). And guess what - she introduced herself to staff as HIS WIFE! <P>Few days later she started e-mailing our (mine and H's) best friend, informing him about H's progress in the hospital, and how worried she is about him ... said she'll keep informing him about further development. Friend called me, very upset, and asked what on earth is going on, what is she trying to do? <P>I confronted her then, I just had enough, and heard so many unbearable words - "I don't give a s*** for your emotions, I won't withdraw, I'll be here 2 months or two years, as long as it takes, and if he decides to take me in his life I'll agree. Oh, of course you have every right to fight for your marriage, go ahead, but I wouldn't if I were you. I don't know what have you been doing together 13 years, he's afraid of you!" <P>Dear God .... She then contacted my friend only one more time and stopped. She also spoke several times with my BIL (one in who's apartment H is now) and I guess that is why my BIL said I'm so posessive and want my H just for me - no matter alive or in the grave. There was a ton of other very nasty words that hit me from his family, I was so hurt, undiscribably. It still hurts so much, although, when see me with H (last Sunday we were at lunch there, together with D), they pretend as if nothing really happened. What a piece of work they are!<P>I've been thinking alot about all this, and think the only way I can act now is just ignore and stay calm (if I can survive that way). <P>By no means am I patient person, also I'm not afraid of any problem I have to struggle with, usually I jump to it and wish to slove it ASAP. But, this time, I have to make him say his decision openly. Whole his life he just pulled his strings, but in master's way, so other people made everything he wanted to accomplish. <P>Now, if he wants divorce, he will have to serve the papers and initiate whole thing. I don't intend to make decisions for him, if he wants out, he will have to decide, come here and say. Obviously, A is still in progress. BTW, for the first time since Oct 14, H didn't contact me, nor our D at all for 5 days. OW's birthday was last Friday. <P>Your two cents, please. I need you to hang on. <P>Prayers, <P>Adrian

Adrian,<P>You would probably be asleep now given your time difference, unless you can't sleep.<P>Here is what I think. First of all, this is extremely hard to take and you know that you aren't alone. Keep updating us on what is going on. That family of his supporting the A is completely mind boggling. Unbelievable. But I wonder how much truth they know about this woman. She is a devious little you know what. The thing I think about though is that surely time will take care of her, and everyone, especially your H, will see through her to what she really is. I can't believe they haven't already.<P>I can imagine that you probably look at the state of things and see big obstacles. Again, you aren't alone. We all have some bizarre scenarios going with regard to family, extended family, friends, our WS "new friends that we wish would all go to an island and stay there" (that is my own beef because my wife gets bad advice from them). But we have to put all this stuff on the backburner and concentrate on the matter at hand. If we want our marriages back, then we have to worry about that first. I'm rambling now.<P>From what you say about your marriage and the separation, there is hope and you just need to hang in there. 11 weeks of separation seems like forever under the circumstances, but it isn't really a long time as far as affairs go (I know D Day longer). Give it all more PTC (I know how hard this is) and Plan A and surely he'll see what a wench this woman is. Did her other affairs go on forever? NO. Look at her track record....this one is sure to unravel too. Maybe she'll help it along if she keeps doing devious things. You just be the best you can be and let him see that. You've got the upper hand...he has you and D to come home to. What has he got with her compared to you? Time should help the fog lift. Don't you wish we could speed up time for this once in our lives? I do.<P>And about this "happy seeing their nephew so happy", I'm sure my WS looks happy when she is with OM, but is that true happiness? I don't think so. Once again, his family is crazy, but don't let them get to you. Worry about you and D, and Plan A.<P>Take care.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited November 20, 2000).]

Rick, <P>no, I'm not sleeping, another sleepless night. But I was also waiting for your post, I knew you're going to post it after work. That e-mail hit me badly today. All evening I've been thinking of my D, she's taking all this very hard; tries to hide it, but I know her very well - she's young, but sounds (and looks) grown up. I'm concerned for he, from the outside everything looks normal, but from time to time she tells me "who cares for Dad" or "I don't think of it at all, I just got customed we're alone here, I don't bother any more".<P>She's very much like me when it comes to dealing with problems - always ready for thruth, no matter how it hurts. I had no choice but to tell her what is happening, she asked very direct questions. So, apart from details, she knows the story. However, she doesn't know about suicide attempt, just that H had a kind of nervous breakdown.<P>Now she treats him as if he was her peer. They play whe he's home, make jokes, but nothing more. He can still require from her to obey rules, do a homework, but I think she lost that special touch with him she used to have. <P>We were both proud of excellent communication and trust we developed with our child, she confided to him as much as she did to me. Now I think he ruined all our effort and caused his child enoumous suffer. Not to mention he irrreversibly ruined her picture of her father, the great one. <P>Another issue to deal with, among tons of other. But I want him, so help me God.<P>Thanks for your post, I wonder what's happening to you those days? Do you feel better? <P><BR>You will be in my prayers tonight, <P>Adrian

<p>[ January 09, 2002: Message edited by: OffOnOnOff ]</p>

Hi, Adrian,<P>I just wanted you to know that you have 1 more person praying for you, your daughter and your marriage!<P>This summer my H's uncle started seeing a woman everyone knows is married. I don't know the whole story, but I obviously don't agree with it. My H says her H is abusive and as harsh as it may sound, my response is "I can see why if she's running around". I don't believe anyone deserves to be abused, but I also don't think it's an excuse to cheat on him. The whole family likes her and my H's grandmother goes shopping with her and goes to the movies, etc.. I think it's horrible!<P>Anyway, enough about me...<P>I think you're being very strong in your Plan A attempts. Like everyone else has said, your daughter needs you and that means you need to take care of yourself - get lots of sleep, etc., so you may be strong.<P>Are you taking an anti-depressant or taking sleeping aides at all?<P>Take some time for YOU - a nice hot bubble bath maybe!<P>I hope you are doing better. I don't think you should mention the e-mail to your H, the OW wants to get a rise from you. Your H isn't stable enough right now so act as if he's not in your lives - BE HAPPY!!<P> ** RECOVER *REFOCUS * REGENERATE **<P>Keep us informed.<P>Hugs and prayers!<P>Karen

Thanks, guys, knowing I'm not alone helps a great deal. I need someone to tell me I'm not crazy, it's so hard to stay sane among this bunch of idiots who all blow the same horn. <P>OOOO,<BR>thanks for hug, I needed badly someone hug me. Cyberhug is as good as a real one when it comes from the heart. I know this one did. <P>Karen, <P>thanks for hugs and prayers, it means a world to me now. Yes, I take some sleeping aids from time to time, usually some herbal pills. I try to do something nice for myself, not always sucessfully. Finding some free time for exercise in my very busy schedule seems impossible. My D is very active (English and Spanish lessons, volleyball, rowing, actor's group), most of my free time I'm at her disposal (driving her around a town for her activities, picking her up). I work from 8.30 to 5, also have a second job 6 days a week, every Satuday afternoon included (this is how I repay mortgage), so whether I like it or not, in between I have to squeeze all other things I have to do. <P>BTW, dealing with parents and their manipulative, authoritative and very possesive behaviour was a big issue to my H, one of those questions he kept asking himself during major depression stage. <P>What I'm afraid of is that it's very likely he might never be able to confront them and live his own life. He told them I forced him marry me because of pregnancy. At the same time he says to me he was very happy in this marriage, adores D, and is not sorry for a single moment spent with me. What is the real truth? I don't know, and that is what scares me. Should I live the rest of my life with someone who will never be honest to me? <P>As for me, that kind of behaviour was major LB from his side in our marriage. He never stood for me in confrontation with his parents. When quarreling with them, he left me to defend our position, when MIL or FIL said something bad about me, he never objected. <P>They could do or say whatever they wanted, he would always swim downstream. I was so frustrated, hungry to hear from him "yes, they treat you badly" at least in private, at our home. Instead, he had long talks with his best friend, confided her his feelings about their behaviour towards me. Instead of me, it was her whom he discussed his relation with brothers, parents, even me. It was her whom he confided MIL is very rude to me, I never had her support. That bothered him a great deal, but was never able to tell me. When I asked why, he told me this is because I'm one of sides in that story. "When I spill it to her, it's like I confessed it to priest, she's neutral. I can't discuss it with you, you're in it."<P>Right, I know, some things are better to discuss with your friends, it helps to see problems from different prespective. But, why on earth he couldn't confide to me? I was always receptive, I did my best to be here for him, all those years. <P>Needless to say, after some time he recognised emotions for that girl (co-worker, too). Thanks God, it was not mutual, she already had relationship and cared for my H only as for friend (she got married recently, and has new baby with that guy). Funny, but she is helping me these days to hang on and pass this crisis. <P>Today I'm so close to explode, I just had it enough. H didn't call for 7 days now, not a sign of him, not even SMS to our D. I would never expect such a neglectance from him, whom I considered the best father in the world. H and D always had very special relation.<P>Last days I keep asking myself who is this guy I've been living with last 13 years? I just don't understand, I don't recognise him. Instead of amusing, gentle, caring guy I see selfish [censored] who has no guts to say he moved out to be free to be with OW, and not to "sort himself out" as he claimed (and still claims). Wherever I move, I just step on lies. Oh, God, I'm so tired, angry, fed up ... I'm seriously questioning my wish to save this marriage. On the other hand, I had 13 beautiful, happy years (wedding anniversary on Dec 26 ...) and I want them back. Is it possible at all? <P>Please, be around, I need your support. Keep me in your prayers, hopefully God will hear our prayers. <P>Hug you all, <P>Adrian<BR>

Adrian<P>More prayers being sent your way. I feel so for you & your D. How is she? Does it bother that she hasn't heard from her DAD?<P>My oldest son took it very hard when he found out about his D's A. he thought his Dad was the greatest, to find that your hero has feet of clay is hard. My H has worked very hard to keep a relationship with him but he knows it is very fragile.<P>May you & your D both be strong.

Adrian,<P>Your H has issues to deal with regarding his family and unless he gets counseling, I'm afraid he'll keep running.<P>My H is in counseling to deal with his childhood. It's sometimes painfull for him, but he is finally sticking with it. Our marriage depends on it now.<P>My H's 1st marriage finally ended because his exW wouldn't defend him with her father (he wanted to have sex with my H and exposed himself to him since my H was in high school and dating his daughter).<P>It's sad, I know, but until your H deals with the past and gets real with his family, you're better off without him.<P>I know I sound harsh, but that's a horrible situation your H puts you in. YOU don't deserve that treatment. YOU ARE NOT GOING CRAZY!!<P>{{{{{Adrian and daughter}}}}}}<P>Have a GREAT Thanksgiving!<P>Karen

That post brought back a lot of bad memories. I feel for you, Adrian, believe me, I do. My H did a lot of the same in our early days.<P>Here's my 2 cents - H and his family needed a scapegoat for his "problems." Your H is still in the euphoric OW fog, so the only person left is you. They feel they need to blame somebody, so they made you out to be the "bad guy." But your H is still in limbo and doesn't want you to go.<P>Your H doesn't know what he wants - it varies from moment to moment. When he's with you, (since you're doing such a wonderful Plan A) he thinks of the good memories that he has with you. But since he and his OW still have their bubble where they don't have to face real day-to-day life together, he has feelings in that direction also.<P>Honey, you have to Plan A as hard as you possibly can if you want him back. This witch that he's with is obviously very good at undermining marriages, so you'll have to fight twice as hard. She'll dig her own grave eventually.<P>As far as the in-laws go, seriously, don't let them get to you. They are as ignorant and in-denial as your H is right now. Mine did the same thing to me, saying that I was trapping my H and that my baby probably wasn't even his. I used a printing machine after my baby was born to put a pic of our son, a baby pic of my H (my son is an exact DOUBLE of my H), with the headline "Kiss My A$$!" (I never sent it, but it makes me chuckle when I'm feeling low.<P>He told my Southern Baptist extremely conservative MIL that I was a LESBIAN (I later found out that he had been dating somebody else seriously when he started seeing me, and he eventually left this gal for me.) She despised me because she thought I was some lesbian that my H magically reformed (doesn't he wish?!) My MIL and I have a great relationship now that she's gotten to know me, but that story cracks me up now. When she told me that, I looked her square in the eye and said, "ma'am, your son ain't THAT good!" We both laughed.<P>Anyway, sorry to ramble, but hang in there, Adrian! If you need to vent, do it here, not at your H. Best of luck!<P>Hugs,<BR>Ali

Hi all, <P>I couldn't post yesterday, spent all day on seminar in the company. <P>SING, <BR>my D raised her force fields. She denies it bothers her, just from time to time she opens and then it really looks bad. One of those I've seen yesterday: she cried and said she's going to do something about it, she'll send a letter to D's aunt saying what she thinks about her allying with OW. D spent 10 days with aunt in Sept. Yesterday she confided me aunt told her she's 100% with her (D) and keep her fingers crossed that everything ends up a happyend. Now D asks me why is she lying to her, telling her one thing and doing the other one. Naturally, she's deepely hurt, don't know any more whom to trust. All our in-laws were nice and loving to her, and now at once they still seem nice, but play a game behind her back.<P>I've maybe done a huge mistake, letting her to know almost everything. But she's a smart, inteligent girl, she asks very direct questions and requires truth, truth, truth ... When I tried to hide part of the story in the beginning, she told me "no,no, something's wrong here, you didn't tell me the complete truth, I just feel that's not all. You've always been honest to me, please, I want truth, I can bare any truth but I can't bare lies." <BR> <BR>We brouht her up that way, we tought her that nothing in a world can't be so scarry she can't tell us; if she gets herself in trouble or have a problem she wants to discuss, she should first come to us, we're there for her 24/7. <P>Am I now paying a price for that? She surely is, losing trust in her Dad, who used to be her untouchable authority, her best friend, her idol. When she got her first period, she didn't call me first(I was on a business trip), but ran to her Dad, smiling widely and said, "there, you have a big girl at home now" and sent him in a drugstore to buy sanitary towels for her. Needles to say - he melted. Then they both called me to tell big news. <P>The hardest thing is to expain her why am I still here, struggling for our marriage, after all what H and in-laws did to us. I keep saying such a problem takes time to solve, it's still not right time to say some things or react, but that time will come eventually. She seems not understand it any more, says she can't look us any more destroying ourselves, and if I would not do anyting about it, she will. <P>Karen, <P>yes, H is getting counseling. Unfortunately, he had to change therapist twice (first one had too many patients, made no sense to have one session in 5 weeks, and the other one, with whom he made some progress, was diagnosed cancer and is on sick leave now). He just started with this new one, two weeks ago and is about tho have 2nd session this week. <P>Ali, <P>Gosh, a lesbian ... this is a good one!. Yes, they all need a scapegoat, it's far easier to blame someone else and not to admit your own mistakes wich eventually scr**** up your child's life. BTW, my H was the only one of 3 brothers who had normal relationship, marriage, etc. The other two also have problems rooting in very possesive mother and emotinally very cold family. They're both 35 now (twins), both lightyears far form any serious relationship. One of them even decided he'll stay alone all his life, because is not able to deal with closeness. He's just afraid to be close to someone. <P>Obviously, I was not good to their son because I showed him what family should be - warm, honest, amusing, open, caring .... and I did my best to create a family like that. <P>Thank you all for your prayers and hugs, it means a lot to me now. <P>Please, keep posting. <P>Love you all, <P>Adrian