I keep wiping out my posts. GRRRR<P>I'll try again.<P>I am at a place right now where I just can not talk to my H. I supposed if there were a true emergency I would be able to, but as of now the thought just sickens me. <P>He has called me 3 times so far today at work. The receptionist has lied for me....telling him I'm at lunch, ect, but she said the last time that he's getting mad.<P>Now, I know he just wants to talk about the plans for the upcoming Holiday as he'll have the kids, but he is so businesslike and unemotional with me now that it hurts to hear the sound of his voice...or, he starts with the..."how are you doing" sympathy thing. <P>Ok, so these are my choices...to continue to not take his calls, call him, or have my sister call him for me (she has offered).<P>I want to be a grown up here, but I freak out just at the thought of hearing his voice.<P>thanks guys....I know I'm loopy.<P>allison

Allison,<BR>How about email? You know, at least in part he wants to discuss. Send him a list of things you'd consider.<P>I know there were times I couldn't talk to my H without my voice shaking, no matter what my intentions were. I was just so tense. We communicated a lot by email, and then it was easier to talk by phone because subjects had already been broached.<P>Use a go-between if you have to. That's what Plan B suggests.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Why can't you just tell or better yet email him and tell him that you don't want to talk him and to communicate by email about the kids. If that won't work use your sister. But he needs to know that you don't want to speak to him. And that you don't want his sympathy which is just to reliever his guilt.

I'll have to go with the crowd on this one!<P>In the depths of my own despair and anger, I asked my W to please not call me unless it was an emergency. We communicated mostly through e-mails. Even now, I don't talk face to face about our problems much. I just sent her a long e-mail detailing my frustrations with her. The best part of e-mail is, you can go back and edit things before you send the message. I don't know how many things I said to her face when I was angry that I wish I could take back! <P>You might even try writing the nasty stuff, then deleting it before you send it, just to get it off your chest...kind of like:<P>"Dear H (you piece of sh*t),<P>Please don't call me at work anymore (my co-workers hate your cheatin, lying a**!), if you need to talk to me about the kids (thanks for ruining their lives, too), please drop me an e-mail (if your neanderthal fingers can even use a keyboard, you moron). Thank you and have a nice Thanksgiving (with that evil b*tch you stuck yourself with)."<P>Just don't forget to delete the bad stuff!

damn it damn it damn it<P>he snuck a call through.<P>i lb'd all over the damn place, just what i was afraid of.<P>he wanted to stay at MY house the night before thanksgiving with the kids b/c i'll already be out of town. i said no...he's pissed.<P><BR>gotta work on a letter about no contact. he already thinks i am acting ridiculously.<P>when will this all end.<P>cjack...will i be breaking any copyright laws if i just send him the post you wrote in an e mail form...i love it...you always make me crack up.<P>thanks guys,<P>allison<BR>

Hi Allison,<P>I'm on vacation this week, so I'm at home ... AND "yes" I have an answering machine, my old one died and I haven't had the time to hook-up the new one. I think I had radar on you last night regarding what's going on today with your Steve and wanted to talk to you.<P>Allison, I think you might want to do like Lor suggested ... email Steve. Outline all the possible scenarios of the logistics for the coming Holiday and let Steve choose. Then let him answer your email and get most of the details out of the way like that. Then I'd really like to see you talk to him on the phone if he calls after that. I truly believe you have it in you do talk to him without getting too emotional, Hon. I'm certain you can make it light without LBing during the conversation ... can't you find it in you? The reason I;d like you to do this is for two reasons:<P>1. He'll see that you can be strong and unaffected at the most emotional time of the year without reacting to his BS or business-like coldness. <P>2. It will build strength in you ... you need to see it in yourself ... if you can talk to him without turning to mush you'll be showing yourself how strong you an be when the going gets tough. You just may surprise yourself ... to talk with him in strength will give you something to be proud of ... and it'll show you YOU still have a degree of control, because you do, you just don;t realize it.<P>Use the psychological edge you have Allison, be there for yourself. Start thinking more in depth about the causes and not the symptoms ... Steve's sick and isn;t ready to heal .. you being the strong one is what you would do if he was physically sick, right? So how is this different? <P>I know you doubt me thinking there's hope for you two, I know how bad you feel and want it to end whether thru D or recovery ... but neither of those aren't going to happen anytime soon, so show him what you're made of ... be so incredibly strong and be consistent about it every time you see/talk/encounter him ... he'll eventually start to realize that Allison isn't someone who his going to fold simply because he's a mess ... because he is a BIG [censored] mess! But you don't have to be.<P>If you don't talk to him this time ... then okay, I understand, you know I do, I just think it's time you show him you're drawing from the strength that makes you such a damn good mom and wife, jeeez ... damn good person period. He needs to start seeing it now Allsion ... and you have to stay consistent with it ... every single bloody time you have any contact with him project strength ... reach down inside where I KNOW you have it and use it Sister!!!!<P>I'll be home later tonight if you want to chat, Sweetie. I'll try calling you if I don't hear from you. I want to know what transpired today.<P>Love you Allison.<P>Please be well and STRONG LIKE BULL!<P>Love,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited November 20, 2000).]

LOL .... Damn good one, CJack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>I'm laughing my butt off! Thank you ... Thank you ... Thank you!<P>Gawd ... can't tell you how many times I wanted to say those very things.<P>Jo

Cjak,<BR>Thanks for the laugh!<P>Allison,<BR>I know how you feel about talking to H on the phone.Much easier to email,but now my H has blocked that. <BR> I agree with Jo,reach inside and pull out that strenth that you have.<BR> Love and Prayers,Bethn

Oh God, it was horrible.<P>I had to leave work, I"m home now.<P>He called me again, for the 7th damn time today. I took the call, in a private office thank God. He started out mad...he knew last week that I kicked a hole in the garage and started yelling about that...and off we went.<P>He is upset mostly that oldest son will not go with him to another town for Thanksgiving. His is upset that he has lost all control over what is going on in this house. He wants me to run interference with the kids constantly for him. I told him no, that it was now up to him to relate to the kids...I could not help him anymore. He was going to be content with the every other weekend, and dinner once a week thing, because that's all they want...and that is a stretch. I have to force them to leave with him.<P>He started sobbing and saying that this is not what he wanted.<P>Hi is just starting to see what he has done here.<P>I ended it (with him still sobbing) telling him not to call me at work. If he needed to communicate with me he could e mail me. He could call the kids ANYTIME, day or night, and they could also. He cried that the kids never call him and are never home to take his calls.<P>What can I do? I told him the Christmas schedule and hung up.<P>I tried not to be mean, I really did, but he is losing total control and he knows it.<P>I came home, and the kids told me he'd been here...just before he called me. He'd seen the boxes in the garage where I'd (neatly) put all of the rest of his belongings. <P>I hope I did the right thing, and I hope he is finally starting to see the magnitude of what he is doing here.<P>He told me he's sorry for the first time since this all started.<P>Was it a breakthrough or a goodbye?<P>allison

This is what is called acting "as-if" over at Divorcebusting. You are acting as-if you are divorced letting him see how it will be.<BR>When he says this is not what he wanted is it because he had some fantasy version of a friendly separation/divorce?? Your actions will help hit bottom sooner but then it's up to him to pull himself up.<P>Stay strong and take care of yourself and your kids.<P>

Oh Allison ... are you okay???<P>I feel for the both of you, your poor poor H, he's lost ... he truly has no idea what he's really done to your family ... he is in such pain BUT YOU DID NOT CAUSE IT ... it's his deal .. H needs to go thru this ... it'll cleanse his soul. Let him hurt, let him think, let him reflect and face what he's done ... you stay away, don't go overboard and console him right now ... just understand that he is doing this to himself ... he needs to find the emotional strength within himself. This may or may not be a turning point.<P>Now Allison ... please don't freak out if he starts saying crazy stuff after this last horrible phone conversation ... he's searching ... he's lost and because he doesn't know what to do or where to turn he may try pushing buttons (lashing out) ... and then again he may try coming to you for love and comfort ... be loving yet strong, Allison but don't take on his mess ...don't take the responsibility, stay STRONG, just DO IT ... it will show him YOU KNOW what is right, you as a loving woman/female and wife KNOW what he's going thru and still respect him yet he has to deal with it ... sort thru it ... and figure it all out on his own. <P>It's the Holiday madness but with this Infidelity it's a total nighmare emotionally ... you see that don't you??? Nothing bad has to happen, the world isn;t coming to an end ... your children are well and healthy ... just remember that 2 days from now things may be completely different ... TIME Allison "TIME" will make such a difference, it's on your side so please use it wisely ... find that strength I know you have, Honey and use it NOW. It's time for you to do this ... I don;t mean just for this day, I mean from here on ... you have it in you Allison ... I now you do ... it's there waiting for you to draw from ... <P>Smile Honey ... because you know I know you have the strength, maybe even more than I realize, to not only get thru this but to shine thru this. Think aout what I'm saying Allison ... do you see it ... its there waiting ... just allow yourself to do it. <P>I'll chat with you tonight, okay? <P>Love,<BR>Jo

Hi Az Allison,<P>Sounds as if you did wonderful, until the can feel what they are losing its no good. My H is upset that I am having thanksgiving with his family. Oh Well they are S amd my family also. I know its hard and if you want you can email me at mpayne@cs.com I think are situations are alot alike.

Allison Jo ... you there???<P>Tell us how you are please.<P>Jo

Thanks so much for all of your help you guys. I feel like I have been coming here only needing help, not giving it, and I hope you'll forgive me...I will get on track again and maybe be able to tell my friends here things they need to hear. Self involved people have never been my favorites, and I've become one.<P>Just wanted to say that I am ok...other than one thing. I'm now worried about my H. Tonight the phone has rung about 10 times with no one on the other line. The only other time this happened is during last summer when H would stay over here...I believe it was OW calling. I've tried *69, but the # is blocked. I wonder if she is trying to reach him...and he's in trouble somewhere...he was in really bad shape when I last spoke with him today.<P>I know, this is not my problem anymore, but I do love the man and I think I'm not the only woman worried about him right now.<P>I won't call him...just venting some.<P>Your patience is amazing for reading all of this and putting up with me. I should be paying each of you $100 an hour...thanks<P>allison

Allison,<P>I'm praying that Steve is okay tonight. That he will take care of himself and open his heart to forgiving himself ... because that's what it's going to take ... him forgiving himself for being human and making human mistakes and bad decisions. He knows he's going thru something but it seems he somewhat can't control himself. I'm feel so bad for him ... when a man goes thru this (and this is a MLC BTW) they put themselves thru gut wrenching trauma trying to figure out their purpose while trying to run away from their mortality ... his "feelings" are stronger and more mixed up then ever right now ... so I too am a bit worried for him.<P>I'll try and call as soon as I hear from Russell ... he's to call tonight ... aft that conversation I'll call you if that's okay? How late do you stay up???<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Resilient,<P>What does MLC BTW mean?

HI Az Allison,<P>I hope and pray everything is ok with H. My H has done the same things. There is times he is such a emotional wreck that I am afraid that he will do something stupid. So far he has not. I thank God for this all the time. Just wanted to let you know I support your decision to do what you are doing. May God be with you and your family.<BR>

Allison,<BR>When my H hit bottom, he went off by himself for a time. I was worried, but I was also tired...worrying about him when he was the cause of his misery, and mine. I maybe wasn't a nice person by that time, but in the weeks after that, when he was in distress and wanted to come over or call late, I said I wasn't available to be his support, he could call our counselor, our pastor or his prayer partner--all of whom assured me they *were* available and it wasn't healthy for me to serve that purpose for H at that time. I too was acting "as if" we were divorced. I had failed at Plan B twice, months before.<P>The last time we discussed that time, H still felt I had been really harsh, and it was hard for him to forgive me. I still see it as boundaries I had to set, that, and I didn't want to continue with Plan A with my H in limbo.<P>As for the kids, it was also difficult for my H to realize that, at least the oldest one, didn't particularly want to spend time with him. In fact refused to spend the night for a long, long time. She thought he was low-life, not so much for how he treated me, although that was part of it, but the promises he made to her and broke. And the younger one, a child who just wanted her daddy wouldn't spend the night with him without her sister, I think she was too uncertain of an unfamiliar place. Eventually, as they thought we were getting a divorce and visitation inevitable, they did spend the night, but we reconciled shortly after that began.<P>Sometimes the decisions we make are very tough ones, and making a change is difficult. Your H pulled out of reconciliation. Consequences are logical.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).

Hi Stella,<P>MLC = Mid-Life Crisis<BR>BTW = By the way<P>Jo