Well, my wife just said this morning that she wants to bring the kids over to her place this weekend to see it. I responded by saying that if she wants that, then we better tell them tomorrow night to warm them up to the concept. She said why not Thursday instead of tomorrow. I don't know if she has something planned, or is putting it off. Of course, I'd rather it never happen.<P>She told me Sunday she felt a bit depressed. I was happy to hear that. But nothing has changed, and probably won't for awhile. She lied at work to get time off, and was ranting yesterday about how she is sick of everyone telling her she lies ???? Well, then stop lying!<P>Also asked me this morning if I want to have Christmas at her new house. I said NO, it is at my/our house. She said "what if I want it at mine?". I said we already agreed it was at our house, not your new one, so it is at ours. She dropped it. I'm patient and understanding but some things I'm not bending on, and I'm certainly not going over there to pretend everything is wonderful.<P>Here is a question. Is there a big difference between 1 weeks notice to the kids, and 2 or 3 days notice? I don't think so, because either way, my almost 5 year old will be devastated, I think. He is already excited about Xmas, and had all our stockings out the other day. This will shatter things. I know they adjust, but this is going to be hard.<P>Also, if she takes the kids to her place this weekend to see it and spend some time there, I believe she wants me to go too. Should I? My initial thought is to say that I'm not going, you are on your own. She wants it to be so smooth and figures if I'm there, it will be better (I'm guessing). Maybe it is better for the kids, but in reality I don't want anything to do with that place, although I went and saw it once.<P>She asked if I'd "help me find another job, even though you hate me". I said OK. I don't like that though, because she is talking a regular full time job, which means full time daycare, whereas now they are only in part time. How life changes from what we envision and plan.<P>Do you think that if the kids are upset and unhappy, that forms part of what helps clear the fog? Or is it too thick? Ultimately, she has to want me to want back.<P>Any advice appreciated.<p>[This message has been edited by Rick37 (edited November 21, 2000).]

Sorry you are going through this. <BR>I would say, let her take the kids alone so she will maybe understand that they will be with her alone.<P>I haven't followed your story, but is there a om in the picture? This is usually where they are introduced to the kids? <P>While this sucks big time, it is ineveitable, so you want to prepare yourself for that.<P>Hang in and God Bless,<P>Bob

Rick37 -<P>My instinct is to say let her take the kids alone. That way, maybe they will better understand that when they are in that house -they will only be with mommy. I would welcome her anytime at your house, but since she is the one moving out - I think she needs to be the one to deal with this. I know it will be so very hard on you. I think you were also right in saying that Christmas will be at your house - not at her new one. The kids need to have happy memories - to be at home with both parents - even though your wife will not be there permanently.<P>I think it might be a good wake up call for her to have the kids all on her own. That you won't always be there - in her new house - to help her out. She has to want to come back - for whatever reasons. I don't know if it will help clear the fog or not - but it will give her a good does of reality -she really needs to wake up and smell the coffee and see just how grand life as a single mother can be. That's not the mean that I'm coming down on single moms - not at all - but she is choosing to do this to her kids and to you. She needs to be the one to face the music.

Rick, let her take the kids alone. She wants this, let her deal with it on her own. Believe it or not, seeing what life on your own is like is what sometimes brings a WS back. I haven't followed closely either, but I hope the kids are staying in your home with you. Not only will she be in a different home alone, but if she's a decent mother being away from her kids will just about kill her. I truly believe that if you make things too easy for her she may never come back.

Rick:<P>My answer would depend on whether you're in Plan A or Plan B. And some half-assed inbetween situation isn't going to help you or your kids.<P>If you're in Plan A, then a patient, loving discussion of the pros and cons of having Christmas at one house versus the other is in order. Not this "I'm not bending on this issue" attitude (selfish demand---LOVEBUSTER). And no one would ask you to pretend that things are wonderful---but if you couldn't go over to your wife's for Christmas and have a good time and enjoy yourself, for your sake, for your children's sake, and for the sake of your marriage---then you should be in PLAN B!!!<P>

Hi Rick - If the kids are upset and unhappy, don't expect it to be for long. And don't do anything to encourage them to shun her place - they should not be used as weapons, but in reality, they are your biggest asset since she clearly still cares for them and has foggy feelings for you. Keep the kids as much as you can in their "real" home and they may do the rest as far as playing on her emotions.<P>I don't think there's too much differrence between one week's warning to the kids and two. But giving the warning too soon (not your problem, apparently) can be detrimental based on the advice we got.<P>I don't go to my wife's apartment just to spend time, although I am there frequently picking up or dropping off our son. So, IMHO my advice is to only go there for practical reasons and try to have all social events at the "real" home. Otherwise, the kids may get confused.<P>Your situation here is somewhat different than mine in that my wife's apartment is obviously not intended to be a second home for our son, it's a camping trip for him when he goes over there. He's older than your kids and knows his "real" home is our house.<P>As for helping her find a job - I hope you told her you don't "hate" her. Plan A seems to guide you to help her to a reasonable extent - you may be able to keep her from making foggy decisions.<P>Ultimately, I think you need to let her experience her new "perfect" life so she can be the one to finally discover the imperfections. You can't rush this. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A!!!!!!!! and PTC.<P>WAT

Dear Rick,<P>Please please let her know before any move that the KIDS WILL BE VERY DEVASTATED and WHETHER SHE CARES! And why is she going to bust their Christmas when she already said that she wanted to move after the holidays?<P>Sit her down and calmly discuss with her what she really wants FOR THE KIDS. Put aside her needs and your needs and OM needs at this time, and if she were given only X amount of time by GOD, what would she want to do? Max Lucado, a preacher, advised people to MAKE MAJOR DECISIONS IN A CEMETRY and ask her what she really wants to do about her life. The kids' lives cannot be turned back once the process has started.<P>I personally feel that a fog equates selfishness and the best buster is GUILT that they will lose the most precious thing in their lives if they continue in this mode.<P>Rick, I am really sorry, I want to go there and shake the sense into your wife's mind and let her know that she is throwing away a steadfast husband and lovely children and wasting a lot of love and happiness and peace by continuing in this manner. She NEEDS help and is refusing.<P>Paint a picture of how the kids' lives would be ruined and how she has failed to see the loving man you are. She is fortunate and is running away from a lovely god-given family.<P>"Heavenly Father, I lift Rick and his wife and children into your healing hands that you may keep the family intact. I pray that Rick's wife will be very willing to reconcile and not devastate the children by divorcing. Lord, let infidelity be bind in their lives and let whatever that is not of you be bind in their lives.IJN, Amen."<P>Got to run, baby's crying.<P>Love weep

I'm going to have to go against everyone else on this one.<P>I think you should go with the kids for the first time. I don't think you should stay the whole time, maybe only 10 or 15 minutes. This isn't about teaching your wife a lesson, this is about the kids. Their feelings and comfort come first, and since you're the only one thinking of them first, I think you need to go. <P>You've said that you are pretty much the primary caregiver now. If you were taking them to a new sitter/daycare, you would go with them the first time to make sure they were ok, right? Well, it sounds like your wife has switched from mother to sitter when you're not available, so why should you handle it differently?<P>Also, me personally I would want to see the place now that she has "moved in" to make sure things are the way they should be before your kids spend time there. And also quite honestly just so OM will know that you have been there, that it's not some private little love nest.

Ya'll are going to tell over Thanksgiving? I would try & wait till Fri or Sat, if you could, at least then they might not think of Thanksgiving as the worst time in their lives.

Thank you everyone for your invaluable support. This was an important post for me, so your advice was very much appreciated. Guess I have to wait and see what happens in the next couple of days.<P>I'm from Canada, so our Thanksgiving was in October instead of November.<P>Take care.<P>

Hi Rick37,<P>just my own personal experience here. I'm so sorry you're going through this,<P>I did everything I could to help my H (ws). I found his new apartment even before he moved here. I did want to help him out but I also wanted to make sure that my 2 children (5 & 2 1/2) would be ok, ie, no high balconies etc..<BR>I let him use my washing machine when he didn't have one. He even used my car - which admittedly did used to be ours but I got it when we separated as I had the children.<BR>He came for dinner once a week - until he got too busy with his new life. He spends as much time with the children as he cares to, and he does help me with looking after them so I can go to work. He can call them whenever he likes, and he does call them most nights - when he's not too busy.<P>Are you getting my picture here. My situation is that I made it so easy for him, I helped HIM adjust to this new life that HE chose for all of us, I helped him out when he needed things. I was there for him at the other end of the phone when he was at his lowest, and had no-one else to turn to.<BR>And guess what. He's now on his 5th girlfriend in the year and a half that we have been separated and has no intention of coming home. I made allowances for all his behaviour, all his actions, and all his choices. All I did was make it easier for him to justify his actions in his own mind.<P>I guess I sound a little bitter. I don't mean to. We have quite an 'amicable' situation, not the best, but certainly not the worst.<P>I feel that I have given as much as I can to him. I have let him know that I have forgiven his first affair (the one that broke us up) and that I was willing to put this all behind us and work it out.<BR>He doesn't want that. He is a conflict avoider on a grand scale, and to come home means confronting the biggest issues of his life, and he either can't or won't do that. I feel sad for him. I'm sad for me, and for our children, but eventually we will put this behind us and move on.<P>The children know that Daddy loves them, and are very secure in that knowledge. But sometimes it kills me to say that Daddy is such a fine person, when deep down I think he's the biggest pig for doing this. But I will not use my children as pawns. I'm so glad you're not either. It gets us nowhere, only hurts the children now, and I believe would scar them for life. I will not do that to my children.<P>Anyway, that's off the track.<BR>My point is, be firm, be gentle, be non-confrontational, but stand your ground. Don't make it too easy for her. Don't assist her to adjust to this fine new life of hers like I did with my H. I made it so damn easy for him, why would he want to come back to commitment or responsibility?????? Don't make it hard for her either, she'll find it hard enough. You'll find your own path, but mine was the one where he came back to me.........or so I hoped. I was in la-la land, I hope you don't go there.<P>Take care of you, and keep putting the children first. If you do that, it somehow is much easier. I don't know how, but it is.<P>I hope I haven't waffled, I had so much in my head that I wanted to get down before the train of thought went.<P>big hugs<P>Jo