I'm not sure why I am posting this, but why not. Maybe someone who's WS has ended their affair or who is in recovery might be able to see that they are further ahead (I hope). My WS wrote the OM today and told him she loves waking up beside him and hearing him breath, loves to wake up and see his beautiful face. Ironically enough, he doesn't look like someone that she would ever have been interested in. I've heard others say that about the OP. Apparently he is arrogant and high on himself too...heard through grapevine. Perplexing, but guess that EA turned PA is powerful.<P>The good news (maybe) is that she asked him to come over tonight and help with something, but that was before she found my SAA today, and now it seems he didn't come over. Meaningless info, but I hope the SAA rattles her world just a smidgen.<P>Although my snooping sessions can make a knot in my stomach, I've become somewhat used to the contents of what I see. Oh, she used the word "I love to wake up bla bla", and at the end, asked if it is OK if she use the "L" word...because recently it seemed that she used it but he wouldn't reciprocate...one small piece of good news in this rather sickening situation.<P>We're taking the kids to the Santa parade this weekend together. I look forward to that. Take care.<P><BR>

Rick, <P>with all that snooping, how do you stay sane? <P>You are a better man anyway so don't bother yourself worrying about who or what this other guy is.<P>How long did you say it has been since d-day? If the "L" word is off limits I wonder if there is trouble in paradise.

Rick<P>A dangerous area when you start snooping. I believe sometimes it is better to not do so as you often read things that you don't want to read. Some are very painfull as you have found out.<P>It is one thing when your mind imagines what is going on and when it knows the reality.<P>I managed to read all the emails the OM was sending my W and it was sickening. It made it harder to Plan A knowing all the affection that existed between them. <P>I also realised how much of an alliance they shared with me being the common enemy. It is hard. The final straw was when I saw the OM suggest how he would visit my W whilst I was away on a business trip. The thought of the effect that would have on my D plus the thought of him being in MY house whilst I was away was too much to bare.<P>I eventually LBd and wrote an email to him calling him all the lowdown names under the sun and warning of the consequences if he visited. It did me no good in the long run as I am now away on my business trip and my W and I aren't talking.<P>I get home in 6 days and don't really know what to expect.<P>Sorry to vent on your post but I guess my point is knowing a lot about both sides of the story sometimes makes things harder.<P>Keep up the good work with Plan A and enjoy your weekend. You seem to be a real stayer Rick and you are to be admired for that.<P>Regards<BR>Inlimbo

Rick, I hope you don't mind if I just say it as I see it?<P>It sounds as if your wife is/has been pursuing the OM, from what you've said about the fact of her being able to use the word "love" in their conversations. The OM seems hesitant, and she needs to ask him. It sounds as if she is the pursuer.<P>Does your wife leave these love letters out in the open for you to find? Because it sure doesn't seem as if she's trying to hide them. It also is a dead end, because you know that every time you snoop (and I've done it PLENTY of times!!), you'll find something you don't want to see. <P>It sounds (from what you've said) that this relationship will most definitely crash and burn, it's just a matter of time. But your wife's expectations of a relationship and marriage has to change. I don't think she sees relationships in serious terms, more in the "conquest" way.<P>You are a wonderful husband and she will see this, eventually. But in the meantime, don't let what she's doing bring you down, because she is only damaging her own self respect. This also means you don't have to allow her to treat you like this, even though you are 100% for this marriage.<P>Have a great time at the Santa Parade

Thanks everyone.<P>cleopatra - Regarding d-day, she said out of the blue, June 1, that our marriage was no good, it was over, and she considered us separated now. I was shocked. Month earlier, she said she was happy. Week earlier, she was talking about how wonderful it would be to take a job in a different country (me), because that was a possibility. She went out and bought maps 4 days before this shocking stuff started. She told me how she'd been unhappy for so long, marriage was never right (not true), we were too different, etc. I sort of believed it. She was friends with the guy (OM now), but I trusted her, so really thought she was alone. I eventually wanted to know more, so started snooping in the usual manners. Saw that they were a bit too friendly. This was late July. August I found MB. Read that this "separation to be alone and think" is usually sign of someone else. It all came together. Eventually saw the mother of all email confirmations of their EA/PA. Then went back and saw that her cell phone had 45 minute conversation with him May 31, and then several calls per day starting June 1. Duh, can you say EA? There is and has been trouble in paradise, because apparently his parents will not allow him to date a previously married woman (how about still married) with 2 kids. At least he uses this as excuse not to commit, I think. Who knows though. But given the L word stuff, seems that he is not in it like her. Probably using her. I stay sane thanks to MB, SAA, and the thought that this may pass and we could be happy someday, a complete family. If I hadn't found MB, I would not have thought that it was possible to recover and would have been nuts by now over the PA.<P>inlimbo - I was wondering if you were still away, because I remember your post about having to go away, and knowing about prospect of OM coming to your place. Please let us know what happens when you get back. It must be very hard on you being away and not knowing what is happening. I've had to go on a few business trips recently, and had some of the same feelings.<P>Kayleigh - I appreciate you saying it as you see it. She doesn't leave things in the open. I monitor all computer activity, so everything typed is in a log file. She has absolutely no idea that I do this. I felt I had to when I clued in to the fact that she lied all the time. She writes email when she comes to my house when she isn't working (to look after kids). I don't really learn much more now, but still check every so often, more to see what is happening. She is still denying that there has been anything other than friendship with this moron. Sometimes I feel like showing her what she wrote. But I figure it won't stop her feelings, so why bother with a big LB.

Rick- Keep snooping man!! I do it too because knowledge is power. Sure, it hurts sometimes what you find, but the more info we analysis addicts have, the better our analysis can be. Keep the strength and you will always be the most informed SOB on the moral high ground!<P>WAT

Rick<P>Try really hard not to snoop. I know we all want to know what the lies are. But you are only hurting yourself. She is keeping it from you, only you know what you have found and it hurts. Why hurt YOURSELF?<P>This has been one of the hardest things for me. When I was at my lowest, and probably be there again, I got as much out of the internet as I could, and calling her answering machine(just to hear what her voice sounded like) mapping where she workds in Brooklyn. Mapping out her city in NY, I had never heard of it and did not know where it was. Turns out to be close to a friend of mine from college. Small world. They want me to come out and visit, I said no, I would hunt her out and slap her face for what she is putting me through!<P>But, the more I found out, the more the info haunted me! It would fleetingly creep into my thoughts when I was least expecting it and it is like a lightining flash of pain, or nausea or whatever is appropriate. I diecided and my therapist agreed, to "prtect myself" like we are to do here, do not nose around. The amount you do not know is always more than you thought and it always feels like a new betrayal. The fact is you are betraying yourself.<P>Step back and let God take this burden from you. Let it go. You cannot control her world and it is painful and self destructive to your ego that is so fragile. I know. I battle against my low esteem daily. I walk with my head held high and I even feel better for making the effort.Keep your head high.<P>

Rick--I am SQT's wife---just so you know.<P>Now, about the snooping: I understand your need to do so---I've been there and so has M. SQT (he's still there---I had an affair--it's over---H knows all but he's still "cautious". However, it would build up much trust in your marriage if you could sit down with her and tell her you have a need to know and that you want to her from her not snoop. Then let the questions fly--they'll be better coming from her if possible. Tell her you want to trust her and hear things from her NOT about her.<P>Does she still want to pursue OM? You deserve to know her intentions and if she is not going to give him up.<P>I'll pray for you---do the same for me---we've had many ups and downs in the past 6 months and Dec. 20 is our 20th anniversary---I'm just praying we make it that far. God bless you.

Rick - there are clearly two schools of thought here about snooping. Let me tell you a story.<P>As you may recall, we lost our then 8 1/2 year old son to cancer in August, 1999. He had been diagnosed with neuroblastoma, a relatively common form of childhood cancer, in December, 1993 - three weeks before his third birthday. The disease had already spread to his bones, which resulted in a very poor prognosis. He was given a 30% chance for long term survival. As any one can imagine, we were devastated. He faced months of chemo and a bone marrow transplant that may do no good.<P>I coped by "snooping" all the information I could get my hands on about his disease and his progress. I didn't want to miss anything - within my level of understanding - so that I could be confident that decisions my wife and I made were based on all the information possible to know. I learned more about blood cells, chemotherapy, and medical technology than I thought existed. On several occasions our knowledge together (my wife is a nurse practitioner) saved our son from complications and an early demise.<P>He zoomed through his BMT and prospered for 4 1/2 years as a near normal kid. We were always wary that a relapse could come at any moment, so I kept up with advances for treating his disease just in case. Then he did relapse in May 98 and we started all over. Again I immersed myself in every thing I could find related to his disease and his condition. The docs dreaded our questions because most of the time they could only answer, "I don't know." His second remission was short and he died a peaceful death in our arms at home. Because of the "snooping" I had done over the years, I was immediately at peace with myself because I knew I had no guilt. I knew I had done everything humanly possible to save him. My knowledge was my ally to my coping.<P>Maybe this isn't a perfect analogy, but this is the way mine and others minds work. Some parents of sick kids didn't want to know anything extra. They didn't want to assimilate the information, and let the docs do the work. It's not because they cared less for their kids, it was just their way of doing it. It's just another approach depending on the individuals.<P>So, this is why I participate in this site and ask questions of others and "snoop" my wife: to know everything about my wife's "disease" and condition. The information is not as easily available as with my son, but I think you get the point. In the end, I will save our marriage, or be confident that I did every thing I could possibly do. Do what is right for you.<P>WAT <p>[This message has been edited by worthatry (edited November 24, 2000).]