well, peppermint,<P>Try this one for size. I work hard, i wsa finally starting to get things together and I find my husband on the internet with a gal.<P>I pretended to be asleep, i listening and watched what was going on, yes after abot 30 minutes i approached him about it, he gets nervous, ect ect. He shuts down my computer from on to off.....nice for the drivers. I get on this morning under his name for the chat rooms and he has changed his profile.You see, WE set up his profile. WE filled it in together. HE has been going into the 30S rooms. I knew that he had been, but we had a discussion the other day abou tit and he said if i was uncomfortable about it then he wouldn't do it. OH, back to the profile, he changed the married to Prefer not to disclose". soooooo you know what? I am filing for divorce. I am NOT going to go through what us A****** have put you all through. NO WAY! <P>I am so upset.... he treated me like crap at the cristmas party the other night, i busted him checked gals out, i hvae finally mangaed to get my **** together, and he starts.<P>Waht amessed up world.<P>:|<BR>

Mercy...<P>OK, I'm not peppermint, and I have not closely followed your whole story, but something made me open this post anyway.<P>First, I'll say that I don't know how well recovery has been going for you and your H. Maybe things are really messed up, and you have been thinking about filing for a while. But, don't act too hastily. Forget about this incident for a little bit...aside from this Internet thing, how are things going?<P>The reason I suggest you step back and look at the larger picture is bcs I know first-hand what weird things can happen along the recovery path. To make a long story short, my H had an EA with intense emotional bonding...much more so than I felt he had ever been willing to bond with me. We've really been doing well since we began working on things. Yet, a couple of months ago, I found myself in a chat room, pretending to be single and having a <B>truly</B> sleazy conversation.<P>Afterwards, it amazed me that I could have done something so dumb and so yuccky. It truly is not like me. Analyzing it, I realised that I was still a lot more hurt and feeling a lot more distant from my H than I wanted to admit. There is still a little anger and a big ole wall there, and maybe this was my subconscious' way of striking back. Not to mention that it, in some weird way, boosted my ego a bit...<P>So, that's my story. If your H's action was fully in character for him, that is one thing. But, if not, keep in mind that a BS can act pretty darn weird at times...I'm living proof!!!<P>Hugs--<P>Kathi

Hey Mercy,<P>Well, if finding out that your husband has chatted on the internet to another woman feels like a crater, what do you think finding out that your spouse has had intercourse with another person feels like?<P>I am not diminishing the wrongness of what he did AT ALL. Two wrongs never make a right. But consider what Kathi shared in her post. Your affair has made him feel so very bad about himself that he wants SOMETHING, no matter how sleazy, to make him feel better. Having a spouse that cheats affects a man's ego in a very different way than it does a woman's, and most of the time when women are unfaithful it is for very different reasons than when men cheat.<P>If both of you agree that a divorce is the only option, then so be it. But please don't decide to divorce your husband because of this one thing. Of course, we both know that it is not about this one thing, don't we?<P>By the way, did you tell him about talking to the OM again? If so, his action could be a reaction to that. If not, your action could be a reaction to that.<P>Just a thought. Please respond and let me know what you decide and how things are going.<P>Love,<P>Peppermint

Okay,<P>Well, i did talk to him about this. and i cried, and yelled....not at him but about all the hell we have been going through for the last 2/3 yrs. I am tired. He is tired.<P>But, he did say that he did not change his profile. So i jumped right on that wagon and proceded to show him that he did too change it.<P>Well shame on me, when ilogged on, chekced his profile, it now showed single and looking. intersting because it had jsut said....PREFER NOT TO DISCLOSE.. blank.. I am not sure what the deal is but i know what it did say.<P>AS for the conversation, he said that I was "supposedly" welcome to read what ever the conversation was. WEll in my eyes, he ws busted. At this point, i am not sure what i believe. HE assured me and assured me that he loves me and he has been through to much hell to ruin what has begun to be a normal marriage, finally. <P>NO this is not in character of him, but he had told me that he was not comfortable with me whispering men, so i called him on the double standard. He says.. well.....men don't whisper me, and i don't type well enough to stay up with the rooms.<P>needless to say, after my affair i am not interested in any excuses. I cannot be as tolerable as he has been.<P>Peppermint,<BR>no i have not told him about the phone call. I felt that since it won'thappen again, and i am able to see what a loser OM is, there is no need. Is that part of the reaction? YES! I am insecure with the latest developments of our marriage. I find myself leaning more on my husband and i am not interested in dealing with my hsuband having intercourse with another woman, cause quiete frankly, I wouldn't tolerate that business. One time shame on you, twice, shame on me, is a quote i happen to like.<P>one day at a time.<BR>mercy

Mercy,<P>Are you alright?? You are not making much sense and that really isn't like you.<P>You said: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>needless to say, after my affair i am not interested in any excuses. I cannot be as tolerable as he has been. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But you are making excuses. You just make one below for not telling your H OM called. You are making them for yourself often in these posts.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Peppermint, no i have not told him about the phone call. I felt that since it won'thappen again, and i am able to see what a loser OM is, there is no need. Is that part of the reaction? YES! I am insecure with the latest developments of our marriage. I find myself leaning more on my husband and i am not interested in dealing with my hsuband having intercourse with another woman, cause quiete frankly, I wouldn't tolerate that business. One time shame on you, twice, shame on me, is a quote i happen to like.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What do you mean one time shame on you, twice , shame on me? He hasn't cheated on you. You are the one that has gone to OM twice.<P>Mercy, are you transfering your feelings about yourself and OM onto your H? It would almost seem so from this post. Please, stop and think. You H loves you and has been through h-ll for you. Have you seen a physician about some anti-D's. <P>Something is very wrong and it isn't your H cheating on you is it?<P>Please keep posting perhaps venting here will help you and your H.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi Just Learning,<P>NO!! I am not alright. I am confused. Upset, uptight, and stressed.<P>Okay. I happen to still feel that my H should have let me go. What person is willing to put up with an affair that lasted so long, ened for months, and resumed? Some one who loves me is what you are thinking? You are right. And i was very wrong. Was it worth it? NO. Can i change the past? NO. Am i wlling to have my husband talk with women on the internet, regargless of the reason? NO. Am i making an excuse for NOT telling my husband i had contact with OM? I suppose. But i also know i had no anticipated having to talk with him until i was "healed" Should i kill everything we have built by telling him about the call? NO. Why? because i had no control over him caling me. But i know that in that conversation, i also found that i CAN MOVE ON. I do not hold any real feelings for OM. Do i miss what we had? NO. Why? because it was fantasy.<P>""Something is very wrong and it isn't your H cheating on you is it?"" WHAT do you mean by this?? I feel that by deceiving me, lieying to me, is just about as good as cheating on me. YOu were not here "spying" on the behavior were you? NO. Did you see him turning in his chair to se if i was awake? did you see him break out in a sweat when i asked him about it while he was still on line? NO. (btw... he is naturally cold. he was in a towel at eh computer)<BR>I asked him :what are you doing?" he said " I am talking to a PERSON" i said...oh a woman? i walked over to the ocmputer and saw that he had in fact whispered HER, and the conversation on there was.... can I call you?? Her asking him.<P>So. I do believe i have some grounds in which to be watching his behavior. Am i wrong? There is other behavior in which has concerned me, and I thinking that perhaps i was OVER DOING IT, let it go without another thot until this. <P>Do i sound confused? You are probably right. Is your question whether or not i am being faithful? Yes i am. Is there a questin on why my behavior is weird? Yes. Why? because i feel that my husband has the tendancy to stray and I am very upset. Do i think he wasn't when he foudn out about my behavior? Ys he was. Do two wrongs make a right? NO. Am i going to let him end up in bed with someone? Is there anything i can do to stop it? Because I am the betrayer, i know what to loook for. And I am looking at someone, given the right opportunity, to not be so faithful.<P>Please...no offense. <BR>mercy

mercy:<P>Hang on. You and your husband can get through this without any more PA's. <P>Yes, you are right to be upset about the Internet advances. They hurt. A lot. I am well familiar with them.<P>What I'd like you to do is ask yourself why you came back to your H. What was there?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Is there anything i can do to stop it? Because I am the betrayer, i know what to loook for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know what to look for...ask yourself what would have prevented you from straying. An angry spouse or one who tried to fullfill your emotional needs?<P>It really stinks to be in the position you're in. But you can get through it with your marriage intact. Your husband is hurting, too, and this is a big, red warning flag waving at your marriage that you need to stop what you both are doing and fix things before there's an accident.<P>Hang in there, mercy. --HBC

HBC,<P>I am doing the best I can. But, i cannot compete with woman who do not have children. I am a busy mom, i go to school, have 5 children, clean, cook, miss school for sick children, drop dead at night. I am tired. A lady who takes the time for him is certainly going to make him feel pretty damned good. Esxpecially when he could be helping me get things to gether so i can spend time with him. <P>What brought me back to my husband is a kind loving person. He went through some real hell for a while and he did act like he did not like me for a while, but he has gotten over that. He has been very loving. NOT helpful,. but loving non the less.<P>I have cooled down.He insists that it was innocent, so i willjust let it go and keep my eyes open. He did agree to no more internet if it is going to make me upset.<P>So, again, it is one day at a time<P>mercy

Mercy,<P>My response wasn't an attack on you. It seems that your H's communicating with a woman on the internet has thrown you for a loop. No, you don't have to tolerate it, just because you were the betrayer previously. No, it is not uncommon for the WS not to trust the BS.<P>However, there is a solution to your feelings and your H's obvious needs to talk with a woman. It is called Plan A. You might want to consider using it on him. It seems as if there are a few needs of his that are not being met and he is looking for them to be met .<P>It also sounds from your previous posts that this thing with OM is just recently really died. As late as May you were communicating with him. Did H know about that?<P>I ask for a very good reason. I sense that you are very very down on yourself. You need things from your H, but you don't feel he compares well to OM. Certainly, your H seems to think he doesn't compare well with OM. You past posts have indicated that he is withdrawn, probably out of fear of you leaving.<P>Oh Mercy, it is a mess, but you hold the keys. Somehow you have to find it in your heart to love your H. I mean love in the verb sense. Somehow, you two must come help each other heal. Your feelings of guilt are actually hurting him because they hurt you. You asked, what person would be willing to put up with an affair that lasted so long?<P>It seems to me that it really bothers you that he did. A sure sign of your feelings of guilt. While you may feel that you should feel guilty for what you and OM did to your marriage, there is a point where it is counter productive.<P>This is very important if you are to try Plan A. Your H obviously needs your help. You need to save him from feeling as you have in the past and maybe do now. You need to see that you're reaching out is not just for you but for him.<P>I know you had issues with his behavior in the past. I know he found religion in the past years to overcome his failings. I know that he has done his best to save the marriage, but from what you have said it has been at the cost of great conflict in him. I also know you are back because you feel an obligation to your family, more than you feel deep love for your H. (The OM still lurks doesn't he? The easy way out.)<P>Mercy, I have rambled on too long and am probably wrong in many things. But I do know this from what you say, your H is feeling very needy right now. Save him from feeling the guilt that you have felt. Do him that favor, for only you know how truely deep that pain is felt.<P>I hope I have said something that makes sense to you. If I have please think about it.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

mercy:<P>You're doing great! You have already confronted the situation and are working to make it better. I'm really glad for you.<P>Regarding:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, i cannot compete with woman who do not have children. I am a<BR> busy mom, i go to school, have 5 children, clean, cook, miss school for sick children, drop dead at<BR> night. I am tired. A lady who takes the time for him is certainly going to make him feel pretty<BR> damned good. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think it's precisely those qualities that make you EXTREMELY competitive with any Internet woman he could find.<P>Sure, she may give him some time and prop him up in the short term, but you are the person he has so many shared life experiences with. You are his wife, the desireable, capable woman that he married.<P>But I was really happy to hear you say this:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He<BR> did agree to no more internet if it is going to make me upset.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mercy, I think that's great! It sounds like he's looking at the POJA and taking it seriously!<P>Now if only he will look after your emotional need for help around the house...but as you said, one day at at time.<P>All the best to you. --HBC

Mercy,<BR>I'm not Peppermint either, I'm worse, I'm a WS whose betrayed H became a WS and then I had an EA...and my H & I are together.<P>You said you can't deal with your H's tendency to stray. He hasn't had a PA, though, right? What about your tendency? I'm not being mean when I say you have the same tendency and acted on it. It certainly could be said my H & I both have a tendency to stray. We both have...but that isn't our defining characteristic, just as I doubt "straying" defines *you*. I would say that my H & I try not to make the same mistake twice, it's just that life offers so many ways to err. You recognize what you did wrong, pick yourself back up, make amends and live your life in most optimal manner you can.<P>It's funny (not ha-ha funny) that last week I told my H that the EA OM had called me, and I didn't want to tell him, waited a few days infact, because I didn't want to jeapordize our recovery...but I had given you the advice a couple weeks ago that you should tell your H about the OM's call because being honest wouldn't be the thing to end your recovery. <P>I had to take my own dang advice . My H handled it wonderfully and then yesterday we went to an Xmas party also attended by his OW. And, although I'm shaking like a reed today, my H was proud of me & being with me. What a weird world.<P>You can end your marriage over this. Of course you can. Your H could have ended it over your affair...but he didn't. He is hurt and I can tell you without one doubt that although most betrayer and betrayed both suffer pain...being betrayed is so far far worse because you don't make any of the decisions, unless you choose divorce, that's really the only one in the betrayed's power--and the one you are grasping at. I looked at the OW yesterday and I felt the old powerlessness. All I could do was be me (a very well-dressed buffed-to-the-max, smiling me), sitting at my H's side and pray that he doesn't get resnared by her. And, Mercy, he hasn't been with her since at least August 99 and I feel this bad.<P>Your H isn't handling his pain well. Just as you didn't handle the OM's call honestly (and boy, do I empathize with the difficulty, but my guilty conscience was starting to manifest big-time) And you are right, he continues on with the internet sex and your marriage is dealt another blow.<P>I'm not going to tell you that you have to work on your marriage. Marriage recovery is too hard if it isn't your choice. But your marriage could survive if you both worked on it together, allowed the other to fall apart every now & then, if you are strong & loving when the other is down and nearly out.<P>I'm sorry you're in this mess.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."<BR>(Proverbs 15:1).