Well what a tumultuous weekend. I had a dr app't Thurs and got the Xanax and Effexor. We had a few decent times this weekend, but I continued to believe that she was not being honest. I secretly taped her this aft while I had the kids and got the most gut-wrenching 45 minute conversation of my life. She finally admitted to physicality with the OM, but the audio on the tape was the final straw. She is so much in love with him that I can NEVER find it in my heart to forgive her. The kids will survive - I'm definitely going for joint visitation. She is adamantly opposed to my leaving, but I really must. I just can not stand the thought of her being in love with OM, let alone my past with the OM (see earlier posts). Call me weak or a quitter if you must - but I have to get on with my life and I know that I can never look at my wife the same again. How do we break it to the kids? I need all of the heavy hitters on this one. Help!<P>So sad,<BR>BradTheDad<BR>740-534-9103 - I'll be up late

Brad<P>Sorry for your pain. It is hard to snoop & then live with what you found but knowing is better than not also.<P>If you can tough it out till after the holidays, for you kids try. For me I can't think anything worse than always remembering Chirstmas as when your family broke, & knowing that your children will always assoicate Christams with it.<P>Your in prayers.

Brad,<P>I know the gut wrenching feeling of finding things you really don't want to hear. I didn't have an audio, but have read stuff that my wife sent to OM, with statements such as "I've never felt this way about anyone", "I love you", "I love waking up beside you and seeing your beautiful face" (it is ugly, trust me), "I love just laying beside you and hearing you breathe at night", "I respect you, I love you, and you are so passionate...god are you passionate". Each time I read this crap, needless to say I felt sick. People on here say stop reading it, but I always just want to know what is happening.<P>These are just a few of the things I've read while snooping in the usual ways. I know how you feel, and can't blame you for wanting to leave, but I do want you to know my opinion, just from what I know. I think you should stay. This "so much in love with him" is just a bunch of crap that all our WS are saying to their idiot lovers. It is right out of a book. There is no reasoning with them in this foggy state.<P>People's emotions do weird things, and it isn't uncommon for someone to fall for an old flame, even if they knew at one point that they absolutely didn't want this person. Combine some lack of ENs, some new emotional connection, and the excitement of being sneaky, and some past history, and you have some irrational and foggy thinking. This sounds like your wife.<P>Perhaps you can never forgive her. I feel the same way sometimes, but I read SAA and I trust that forgiveness is possible, or in other words, that recovery is possible. It might not seem like it at any given time, but I think it is one of those things that you just have to trust, because it happens to some people. You can read about that on here. Now this is very important....seeing and hearing sickening stuff like you heard causes a reaction, but I really think that you should wait before making a decision to leave. You will calm down and ground yourself if you give it a bit of time. As sickening as it is to hear the Love she has, it is a fantasy now. When I read some of the stuff I read, I was crazy inside at the start. But, I had to focus on what I wanted, and although I look at my wife sometimes and wonder if I can forgive her, I think I can, and in part because of SAA, this site, and because people have lived through worse than what I have, and recovered. In an emotional time like this, you have to trust some people with experience.<P>Can you elaborate on her being adamantly opposed to you leaving? What does she want/propose? Does she know you heard her on the tape?<P>I really think you should sleep on this a bit...don't want to interfere, but from my experience, don't make a rash decision after hearing the stuff you heard. Trust me, you'll not feel as bad after some time passes. If part of you wants to be together, and you want your kids to have a united family, relax a bit and focus on Plan A. I wouldn't leave....then you look like the bad guy. If anyone should leave, it should be her.<P>This is classic fog. What she is saying is not real, not built upon reality, and it is SO common. Don't forget that. She doesn't understand that now. But we all do, and I hope you do. It is hard to separate the emotion of hearing the "in love" stuff from the fact that it rarely is real, and is right out of a book. I have trouble with it at times myself.<P>I hope you stay calm and keep posting on here. It will help alot. I'll be waiting to see an update from you. I was wondering what the latest was, because you had mentioned you would not be on Friday, and I was away last week for a few days, so didn't respond to one of your postings.<P>Hang in there. Do what is right for you, but do take into account what you hear on here.<P>

Brad,<P>Well, I don't know that I can stop you from leaving, but I'll give you my two cents worth.<P>I don't think you're weak or a quitter, and if you feel you need to leave then it's your choice. But I'll tell you one thing: what you (and she) think is "love" between her and OM is a bunch of BS. It's easy to feel "love" for someone who is only there for her to share in the fun moments (e.g. dates, romance, etc), without the reality of life (kids, car trouble, laundry, budgets, grocery shopping, etc). So I'm sure she sounds like she is in la-la land, but don't take it to heart.<P>Now, I hate to lecture you, but you had no business taping their conversation if you weren't prepared to hear what you heard. Take from someone who did just that (me): I was nearly physically sick for three hours after hearing the tape, with all the sickening stuff on it. <B>But</B> I knew to expect the worst, and after picking myself up, I proceeded with my initial plan (i.e. confront her calmly, and proceed from there). It sounds like you did the recording without planning what you were going to do if all your suspicions came true. So now you're planning to leave...<P>I would say, don't do it. Go for a nice long walk (I did), and clear your head. Then calmly confront her (without details and accusations, just tell her you know). Then continue your Plan A (not the doormat one, but the one that shows her that you're better than the OM any day of the year).<P>Take it from me, I've been through the same crap, and it hurts like hell. But, three months after d-day, we're still together, and are now occasionally even having sex . This after being told just a month ago that even the thought of sex (with me) made her sick to her stomach...<P>Anyway, just something to ponder. Hang in there, you're in for quite a ride. <P>AGG

One other thing. You are Brad "the Dad". Don't forget the Dad part. When people are behaving like your wife, it is like they lost part of their brain. You didn't lose yours, thank goodness. Think of the kids, and try to gather strength from that. I can tell you that even if my wife doesn't come back (she left 1 month ago), I'll always be able to say (to myself and the kids) that I did everything humanly possible to save my marriage. My wife won't be able to say the same (thus far). I've endured lots of crap over the past several months, but I feel better knowing that I have given it everything I've got, and I'm not giving up yet. I'll always have that, and it just requires some interval of time during which you just realize that they are somewhat temporarily insane. But you aren't. We are armed with the knowledge that we gain from MB.<P>I can tell you this. There is no way I was going to be the one to leave after my wife decided she didn't like our marriage and had an affair. I was willing to work on it. So the door didn't have my name on it.<P>We can't make your decision, but I hope this helps a bit.<P>

Hi Brad the Dad,<P>First, I'm so very very sorry you heard your W and OM and all their crappola on the tape. You don't deserve this .... I too have been there. I'm just so sorry, Brad.<P>I listened in on my H's voice pages for months. The first time I did it I thought I dialed the wrong pager number, I couldn't believe my ears ... she was saying all this CRAP to MY H. It made me physically sick for the better part of that day. I was borderline hysterical.<P>I'm with the guys on this one, Brad. You are going thru reaction of hearing the worse imaginable thing, a nightmare come true. I do understand. BUT .... you really need to give it some time, Hon. You've just been hit with the biggest blow of your life ... and if you wait a few days before you make any kind of decision you'll see that your emotions will wain and you'll start thinking instead of reacting. <P>What will it hurt to wait this out a couple days, Brad??? You have that option. You can give it a couple days and then if you still want to leave then do so. But PLEASE don't do anything rash right now and by that I mean don't leave.<P>If you want to know what I really think ... I think she should be the one to leave (if someone has to leave that is)... she is the one who has wronged YOU ... she is the one that should suffer the consequences of not having the comfort of her home. She wants to act single then she should be out there like a single person, fending for herself, being on her own ... finding out how bloody tough it is to be in the REAL world without Brad the Dad being there for her.<P>Please give this some time before you make a decison ... just give ourself some time. I know this hurts, I know how damn bad you feel, but time will put things into perspective, I promise this.<P>Please post back to us so we know how you're doing, Brad.<P>Many, many prayers for you and the kids.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<P>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 03, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 04, 2000).]

Hi Brad,<BR>Gosh when I read your post it reminded me of time when I found OW's letter to my H, that was written right after the first PA.. she said about something like waking up next to him, blah blah blah. Just got the pain again!<P>When I read your post the first thing I thought(besides about my H's OW):<BR>WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LEAVE YOUR HOUSE?<BR>Maybe your W should leave... she's the one who broke the vow. I know you feel you can't stay with her after the discovery then make her leave.. Like Jo said she shouldn't have comfort of the house.. She should know how it is like to be living without you.<BR>Also, when you leave at the end you may have problems regarding kids?(I don't know about legal stuff but maybe?)<P>Right now you are overwhelmed.. please calm down a little and think about it again.<P>Hang in there!!<P>Meg

Brad,<P>Are you there? Just concerned and would very much like to hear from you.<P>You can make it thru this ... we're here and we've been thru this ... there are alternatives ... you do have choices. Getting thru this feels and seems inpossible at the time it's happening but things DO change and time makes a huge difference in our thinking.<P>Please let us know how you're doing.<P>Love,<BR>Jo<P>p.s. Brad, I went back and read your earlier posts. I wanted to tell you that a very very good friend of ours (H & I) was the drummer in the Plimsouls. My H is a musician and we lived in Seal Beach, CA at the time and so did all the members of the Plimsouls. I hope you're doing okay.<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 03, 2000).]

Brad,<P>I'm sorry for your pain. I have only read one note from OW to my H and the pain was indescribable. I can only begin to understand your pain. <P>BUT, if you move out, you can view it as her winning in a way. You'll be left having to choose whether to tell everyone you know the truth or look like the one that is walking away from the marriage.<P>Also, ditto the previous postings about the kids. I really do not believe the person in the fog is capable of being a great parent. Their thoughts and actions are so self-centered that I don't think they can give the kids all the selfless love they need. I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on you, but your kids need a clear-headed parent -- you!<P>Is there a way you can share your hurt with her without being too accusatory. This would give you a chance to vent a little and regain a little pride by not looking like you are swallowing it all.<P>Brad, please take some time to think about this before you act. The old saying may well apply -- Act in haste, repent at leisure.

Brad - ditto, ditto, ditto, do not leave your house! We all know it hurts, that's why you're getting this good advice and support. We're here for you. Just take a breath, count to ten, and stand tall on the high moral ground. Your kids need some stability now - they're not getting it from that person who is temporairly insane. Please hang in there!<P>WAT

Okay Brad,<P>It's Monday morning and I'm looking around for you.<P>How are things???<P>Jo

Brad,<P>Please don't move out. At this point, please trust me on this as one who has been there, you are not emotionally/mentally/physically where you need to be to make a decision like this. You are still in shock. You're making decisions based on emotion, and that's not always the best way to go.<P>If someone must leave, I'm with everyone else, it needs to be her. She did this, let her suffer the consequences. Even more important though is the kids. You've talked about this guys violent past towards your wife, you, and who knows who else. You leave your wife and the kids, and you're leaving the door wide open for her to expose the kids to him. Your wife says he's "changed", well she might be willing to take that chance, but don't let her take that chance for your children.<P>Like Rick said, she's operating without a brain right now, so as the only adult with one in working order, you get to be the responsible one and keep the kids. She gets to go and see just what an idiot she's being right now.<P>Please don't do this right before Christmas. Your children will remember this FOREVER. It's December 4th. Christmas is in three weeks. Talk to your wife. Calmly. Let her know you know everything. Let her know she's got a choice to make, or you'll make it for her. Give her til Christmas, give your kids Christmas.

While I agree with everyone else here (don't move out, don't give up), I'll add a few things that might inspire you to stay with it a little longer. These are quotes from my W's e-mails to OM:<P>"I truly in my heart and soul think that I have found my soul mate..."<P>"I have met a lot of people along the way but none of them take my breath away like you do..."<P>"Friday night never would have happened the way it did unless I truly felt there was something between us. That is something I just don't give away..."<P>"I totally wish you were here with me now, I miss you and I really love you..."<P>"OM, I truly love you and I will continue to tell you and be there for you when you need me..."<P>"Oh my god. I can't even believe I made it. One whole day without you and I am toast..."<P>"You are my drug of choice and I can't stand to be without you..."<P>Sound familiar? That was four months ago. I thought she was so in love with him that she would never give up on him. She moved out about a month after those e-mails, and I thought it was all over for us. Now she has come to the realization that maybe he's not the greatest guy in the world. She broke up with him about a month ago. That doesn't mean our marriage will be saved, in fact our divorce is still on track, but they do come out of the fog eventually. <P>Hang in there Brad. If not for you, then for your kids.<p>[This message has been edited by cjack (edited December 04, 2000).]

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I fear Brad may not be responding because he's too busy packing/moving.<P>Did any of you get a chance to call him and talk to him at the number he left on his initial posted thread? If so, can you please share what the haps are with Brad?<P>Sure hope he has given it some time and hasn't moved yet.<P>Best,<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 04, 2000).]