Thanks Sing, Rick, AGoodGuy, Jo, Exhausted, WAT, Pam, Jack for your support. You are such good people and I hate it that you've had to experience the same things that I am now. This board has been invaluable to me the last 18 days. W has been extremely apolegetic the past 16 hours - "I will do anything", "please give me a second chance", "just let me try", etc. Of course it's worked to an extent since I'm still here. All of you gave good reasons for me to stay and I know that I'm not exactly rational right now, but the fact is that I'm still here for one simple reason - I am still in love with my wife. I am not here because of the kids, the time of the year or because she should be the one to leave. Pure and simple I love my wife and can't begin to imagine my life without her. I was SO prepared to leave yesterday though. I showed my wife the board and she read all of my previous posts and your replies. She appreciates your sweetness. We both stayed home from work sick today and have made love (alot). Probably a mistake, but I simply am unable to abstain. I still am having a hard time getting over the conversation I heard. She keeps saying that "that was not me", "it's only now becoming real", "It was just a game", "it was so not real", "it's like I was in a fog". But how long would she have been that way if I didn't bust her? Some of you took exception to my spying and I DEFINITELY wasn't prepared for what I heard, but I had to know. She had told me for 18 days that she had quit contact, etc, but I just knew. I had to find out for myself to see if fighting was worth it. She is at the therapist right now and is adamant about making "us" work. I want to believe her so badly; I'm still here because of her convincing. But she has lied to me SO much, i don't know if I can ever trust her again. Or forgive her. Obviously, our marriage is over if I can't do those things. Especially with OM living 5 blocks away and working in the same town that she does. As Rick said though, however this turns out, I will be able to say that I gave it my best shot. But now the hard part begins; they exchanged I love yous on the phone conversation that I taped. How does she just drop that? I feel like I am breaking them up and she still wants him. Obviously since she made that sickening damn phone call. Cjack related that his WS and OM were over with in four months. I'm sure that my wife and OM eventually would have split (he's no prize), but I feel like I could be resented for being the impetus behind the split. BUT I CAN'T STAY HERE WITH HIM IN HER LIFE. Period. What a mess. Then there's the forced breakup - things will really get messy with his violent history. I REFUSE to deal with death threats and threatening phone calls as I did when I was 18. I don't deserve it, but it is coming. He has ABSOLUTELY NO legal rights to my daughter (I am on the birth cert as father), and I refuse to let him see her when he has virtually destroyed my marriage (along with the help of my w). Maybe we will have to move, but damn it why should I give up my house, great job, etc in order to just run from my troubles? It is so hard to think of him and my wife being intimate. I am back to the can't eat/can't sleep phase. Just like AGoodGuy, I am physically sick at this point (except during lovemaking). I can't even workout or play with the kids. The anti-d's don't seem to be working, and the Xanax just knocks me on my [censored] for a few hours. But then it's back to reality. I have to eat - any ideas on how to regain the appetite? I picked up a copy of Infidelity - A Survival Guide by Dr. Don-David Lusterman. I also just ordered SAA off of Amazon. My wife has just gotten to be so lazy, I don't know if she is willing to put the work in to save our marriage. And I don't know if I want to jump through all the agonizing hoops myself. I'm still here though and that's a start. PLEASE keep the advice coming, my wife is paying attention to the board as well and feel free to call either one of us at 740-534-9103. Her name is Noel. I've just got to take one day at a time.<P><BR>Brad

Hi Brad,<P>Good for you!!! I think you've done the right thing by staying, but it takes a toll doesn't it? You've shown amazing courage and strength, don't let it go to waste now. You've gotten through the worst -- you lasted the first 24 hours since what you heard and now time will at least start to dull the pain a little. Besides, do you really think the pain would be that much less if you left?<P>I do understand the need to save yourself though. It sounds like you haven't read SAA yet? At one point when my H came out of the fog for the first time, he read that book and was really struck by it. I think he thought that what he was feeling for the OW was really unique and not like all those other people that have affairs. When he saw himself and his emotions so accurately described in SAA, I think he realized that he was just like everyone else and maybe the relationship with OW was not as special as he thought.<P>Could you ask your W to read the book too. I think that could help her see herself from an outside perspective that might be helpful?<P>Hang in there!! You are showing amazing love and hopefully W will wake up for good and realize it!

Hey Brad, nice to see you are still here. And it's especially nice that your W is reading what's written here. With that in mind, I'd like to address her directly, if you don't mind...<P>Noel, <P>I don't know what drove you to have an affair with your ex. We haven't heard your side of the story yet, but Brad has written that you want a second chance and would "do anything" to save your marriage. Good. Now here's some advice from someone who's been where your H has been. <P>Noel, the most hurtful thing you can do to Brad at this point is to lie. I know, you want to "protect" his feelings. That's probably why you didn't tell him the truth about your ex. Really, though, when you lie to him you hurt him terribly, and you hurt yourself as well. The one thing...the one thing that can help save your marriage is honesty. Total honesty. My marriage has been all but destroyed due to my W's ongoing string of lies. Don't make the same mistake she did!<P>If you truly want to save your marriage, you MUST end all contact with your ex. No phone calls, no e-mails, NOTHING. You must also be willing to prove to Brad that you are keeping your word. That means he must have access to all your e-mail accounts, phone records, and you really shouldn't be out of his sight until you are well into recovery. This will be extrememly hard, and might seem unfair, but if you love your husband you MUST work hard to save what you have together.<P>Your husband loves you so much he is literally killing himself over you. He can't sleep, can't eat, and can't perform at work. Can't you see where this will lead? Maybe your marriage hasn't been "perfect." Nobody's marriage is. Maybe you don't think you're "in love" with him right now. Well love comes and goes with time. My godfather has been married 51 years, and told me that he went for 2 or 3 years at a time when he didn't think he loved his wife anymore. The feeling always came back, and it can come back for you as well.<P>Noel, you made a mistake. That's all. This mistake can be overcome if you both commit to saving your marriage. Read everything you can on this site and others. The Lusterman book is a very good starting place as well. If you need help, come here. We will not judge you because we UNDERSTAND. <P>If you really want a second chance, we're all here, pulling for you both.

Brad and Noel - you can make it if you work. They'll be highs and lows - just like always, but if Noel is sincere - and let's recognize that she's said some of the right things - you're on you way to a better marriage.<P>Brad, the anit-deps take time to work - several weeks, but they will work. Just like everything else you have to do now, give it time.<P>Good luck to both of you!!!<P>WAT

Brad and Noel,<P>I'm so relieved to hear Brad didn't leave and that you both are trying to sort this out. <P>I've been in the Infidelity Train twice in my marriage ... the first time we recovered but WITHOUT MB principals to help, hence this second occurence.<P>Please, please do follow these principlas Brad and Noel. They do work ... it's been proven on this board again and again. You two have been given a second chance for a new marriage ... not the old one. Going thru recovery and rebuilding is not easy and it will take BOTH OF YOU to do it.<P>Noel, we have both betrayed and betrayers here on this board for support, we help everyone, we get to see the other side of the coin and see where we both made mistakes. Because ultimately, you both are responsible for 100% of 50% of your marraige, you understand?<P>Noel, it's all about meeting one another's emotional needs. And maybe right now you don't have a full Love Bank but please be open to Brad's deposits ... he knows you and loves you dearly and wants to meet everyone of your needs.<P>Brad, please print up 2 copies of the EN Questionaire. Give one to your wife and you fill out one also. Then share them with one another. This is a good start to knowing one another again.<P>Come here for support, help, to vent ... whatever ... we've all gone thru what you two are experiencing and we really do understand ... both the Betrayed and the Betrayers hurt unbelievably, the pain can be so gut wrenching. <P>I hope you are both well.<P>Love,<BR>Jo

Brad & Noel,<P>As you can all ready see their are so many people who are here for your. Prayers are being said for you & your family.

Just a quick note to say that I was glad to see your post. You could probably tell from the replies wondering where you were, that we were all concerned. We've been where you are and know how it feels. It sounds like you have made some progress on the long road ahead. I hope the two of you work together to make your marriage wonderful.<P>I would recommend that you read Divorce Busters, especially the first few chapters. It explains the myths around ending marriages, and illustrates the statistics concerning success rates. 50% of 1st fail, 60% of second fail, and 70% of third. Unfortunately, too many think the solution to problems is to get a new spouse, and find out some years later that the best way to solve problems is to work on them.<P>Keep posting and keep us updated because we all care about each other on here.

Brad,<P>How are you doing????<P>Just a tidbit of info for you ... Xanax is "HIGHLY" addictive. Yes, it does the trick but it also increases your depression once it's inital affect has worn off. I just thought you should know that. The last time my H had an A (9+ years ago) I became addicted. My PCP stopped prescribing it after many months of giving it to me so I resorted to those Doc in the Box emergency care places, hit every single one in my area for a term of 13 months. I had no idea I was addicted... until I decided to stop taking them ... then I did it cold turkey ... not knowing that was very very dangerous ... I almost died from the withdrawal ... I had to be hospitalized. So please try not to take them if you can possibly help it, okay?<P>Best,<BR>Jo <p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited December 06, 2000).]

Hi Brad,<BR>been there very recently Brad,<BR>I recognize and know too well all your feelings. <BR>My D-day was Nov 15th.<P>But why continue having sex with her?<BR>You should abstain for long enough so she asks you for it. Not for the sex, but for the feeling of genuine intimacy and togetherness it provides.<BR>This is the only point I don't agree with in your story.<BR>Take care of yourself,<BR>Steve.