This is to give you and anyone else the courage to tell the OW what you think. I often think that they (OW) are the type of people who are used to walking all over other (normal) people and not having them fight back.<BR>Here is what I wrote and I did send this and i feel good everytime i picture her reading it and I know she read it she wouldn't have been able to resist....<BR>Here goes..<P>Dear "Sweets" - cute nickname did you make it up yourself?<BR>You stupid pathetic B****. Yes that is right - a female dog, the male dogs f*** them and forget them - sound familiar?<BR>You are such a loser that you don't even realise that a man can f*** without any love or even real attraction for the f***ee. Why do you think prostitution is such a problem world-wide? And a foolish young man (with a lot of built up sexual frustration due to separation from the REAL object of his desire) would of course find it more to his convenience to use for free a worthless piece of sh** like yourself instead of paying a possibly AIDS infected prostitute for the same thing. I don't know if you've heard the saying "all a man needs to get off is s heartbeat and a hole" Well being a natural slut you offered your hole and my stupid husband made a very big mistake which makes him cringe with shame every time he thinks about you. Did you know that is what he calls you and your encounter? A mistake! Soul Mate my a**! You wish! Did you know that many a frustrated farm boy has been known to f*** sheep for lack of a more appealing partner? Don't tell me they love or even fine the sheep attractive - just the idea of sticking their d***s in a warm hole is enough to excite them. That is a fact no matter how disgusting it may be. Of course many men rise above their base urges and do not sink to the disgusting level that (my husband) did with you. But I know (my hisband) and he doesn't like to j**k off like most men do when they need release so i know he had a lot of built up sexual tension. <BR>Even if men screw up and use a a whore like you it doesn't mean they don't love their wives/girlfriends or whomever they are cheating on. (this city) is full of whores. Why? Because it is full of lonely men who see their wives only once a year or less. I've seen plenty of unattractive whores get as much business as the attractive ones - perhaps they charge less - I don't know (but there isn't anything cheaper than free.) these men in their sexually frustrated lonliness use them for release - nothing more. Whom do you think these men love or care for more the whores they bang once or their wives? Lonely men do stupid things. Unlike your stupid fantasies, (my husband) is not your Knight in Shining Armour. He is a very ashamed man who made a big mistake.<BR>That does not excuse him - what he - YOU - did was wrong and it has hurt ME terribly. You'd better pray God forgives you because I cannot right now and maybe never will. But you don't even know WHO God is anyway. There is no next life. You will not be reincarnated as lovers together at last. If there was a next life I think you'd spend it as a dog paying for your sins. But there is an afterlife Heaven and Hell and even if you and (my husband) are unfortunate enough to be in Hell together it won't be a romantic holiday. I pray (my husband) makes it to heaven.<BR>In the four years before we maried,(my husband) and I were apart for all of that except for two months when he came to visit me. That doesn't excuse what he did but I can understand he probably had a lot of sexual frustration. And F***ing you didn't cure it, which he realised as soon as he finished with you. I know, because whn I arrived he couldn't keep his hands off of me and when we went to (the coast) it was incredible! He hadly let me get any sleep. even during the day when I would go to my room to get something he would follow me there. I'm sure you knew that we all went to (the coast). I bet it made you burn with jealousy to think of (my husband) and me there together. He swears on God's name he does not love you, never did, nor does he find you attractive. he had no disire for you when he went off to (that place) with you and no attention for that to happen. But all the same it did and nothing can change that no matter how much he or I wish it did not happen.<BR>So don't even for one minute fool yourself into thinking your are lving out some silly sappy romance movie. you two are not star-crossed lovers destined to be together somehow even if it is only in death. you are not the secret passion of a married man bored with his wife. I can make any man happier and turn him on more that you ever could you ugly whore. Do you think (my husband) would have even looked your way if I were living there at the time? You are so stupid. if you want to comapre your sordid affair to anything how about Fatal Attraction - you're the Psychotic One Night Stand woman. Like the man in that movie (my husband's) actions at the time were nothing more than those of a mindless selfish rutting pig.<BR>Really I suppose I should feel sorry for you and how pathetic you are to have actually given your virginity to someone who didn't love you. He didn't value it or you. he just wishes he could erase you and that incident. But you got what you deserved and you deserve worse too. How does it feel? You chased him. You played the game for keeps and even risked yourmost 'valuable' item - your virginity - and you still lost hands down.<BR>How dare you even compare your miserable encounter to the thousands of times (my husband) and i have spent making love. you never made love with him - he said and I quote "I f***ed her, I did not make love to her" Do you know that he wakes up in the middle of the night and holds me tight and says "i love you" over and over? Do you know we often make love three times a night? You don't know what it is like to be truly desired or loved by him. You may have stolen what you could but you will never know how it is to live in his heart! You are right he can't love two epople at the same time. he never loved you! Why would he have married me if you are his true love and mean so mcuh to him? I'm ot from the same country, culture, race or religion. There were more obstacles to our marriage than there are to normal marriages. If he decided he didn't want me he could have easily broken things off without losing face in (his country) or ever having to face my family or me. Did you know we had an argument in (the coast) and I said "well maybe I should leave"- you should have seen the panic on his face. He grabbed me and hugged me and apologised and begged me not to go. He married me and he blew you off. don't pretend you don't envy me O know from all different sources all sorts of things you've said that shows just how much it burns that you lost. <BR>I know that you do everything you can to avoid facing reality - that is why you didn't come to (his brother's) wedding - you couldn't bear to see him happy with me and me pregnant with his child. even though I'm no supermodel i know that I am superior to you in every way physically, mentally, and morally. you are four years my junior but you look 15 years my senior. How did it feel to see him and know you lloked so fat and ugly at (a friend's) wedding in January? he wasn't longing to touch you babe. I made him greet you.<BR>(my husband) is MY baby, my love, my lover, my protector, my defender, my provider and I am his happiness. When I found out I asked him if he wanted me to leave and that he could keep our son and he begged me not to and told me he has never wanted anyone else for a wife and has never loved you. He just came in now and hugged me and kissed me and ... well look here... he left a love bite on my neck. Where's your love bite from him?<BR>If you ever should get married to someone, i hope he f***s every other woman he sees.<BR>Everyone who has seen or heard about your letter thinks you are a pathetic loser. <BR>If you find this letter mean or hurtful just remember, sometimes the truth hurts. I've told him off too for his part in this but I love him and I know he loves me and feels bad for hurting me while you only want to hurt me. I have never liked you because I always sensed what you wanted but I used to try to be polite because I don't like to amke scenes and I thought you were a sad case. but now you do not deserve my sympathy or politeness or anything but my hatred.<BR>You can get upset at this letter if you want and can go cry to whoever feels like listening and try to make (my husband) and me look bad or do any number of crazy things, but what you ought to do is wake up and face reality and learn from your mistakes. You ran after a guy you knew was engaged. youok advantage of the fact that his fiancee was thousands of miles out of his sight and touch and he hadn't seen her in ages and you forced your way into his life. And finally having nothing else to offer you used sex which is a very powerful weapon to try to win him. But all you did was make the man you supposedly love and the woman he definitely loves (ME) miserable - and yourself too even though you claim to be so happy.<BR>Sincerely,<BR>"your" Baby's Lovely (that's what he calls me)<P>Keep your stupid photographs I have the real thing with me every day. i sleep next to him every night. I feel his hot breath in my ear and his hand across my belly as we sleep. I have his heart, his love and the respect of being his wife. There is no shame in OUR relationship.<P>THE END<BR>Has anyone else out there actually told the OW/OM off?

I only lurk here now that my divorce is final and I really have no hope of ever getting my marriage back. Yes I would have liked to have told the OW off and a few times I did, but it didn't make me feel much better in the long run. I'm glad it made you feel better but the reason I am posting is that something about your post really bothered me. I understand how angry you are with the OW because I hate the OW in my case with all my soul but was she really a virgin when your H had the affair with her? If she was that is really a terrible thing that your H did and maybe this OW didn't deserve that letter. I guess because I have a daughter who is a young woman and still a virgin. I hope she will wait for marriage but it is easy for a young woman to think she is in love. I worry about her because I know now how much pain it is possible to have and I never want her to have the pain I have had to felt for the past 3 years.

I'll be brief since you will probably reach through the computer and choke me <BR>I am sure that your letter served its purpose in hurting the OW. Will it help you in the long run, maybe. Does your H know about this? Others on this board have actually had spouses who recontacted the OP to aplogize for such things.<BR>Don't get me wrong. I wanted to destroy the OW. Sometimes still contemplate it. In the end, I will be the loser if I do that. The A is really about what is or is not going on in our marriages. Tha's where your attention should be. Don't waste your energy on someone who would have an affair with a married man.<BR>Also, you talk about God, Heaven and Hell, yet your letter is full of visciousness, foul language and hatred. How do you feel about putting those things togehter? Remember the compassion that Jesus had for his enemies? Try some of that. It made me feel better to try and practice that. She sounds a misguided (a virgin?). I never spoke to the OW because I felt that she didn't deserve my time. I didn't want her to feel that she was important at all. <BR>I truly hope you do feel some relief. Let it go now. You'll feel a lot better.<P>cleo<BR><p>[This message has been edited by cleopatra (edited December 06, 2000).]

I wrote a couple of letters to OW but never sent them. Neither were as, um, "to the point" as yours.<BR>I'm pretty sure had you posted this letter before you sent it, you would have been encouraged by members of this board NOT to send it. But, what is done is done and if you feel it has helped YOU with your feelings and healing then I suppose it was a good thing. You just may get a rebuttal as a result of this - so just be prepared.<BR>Hang in there.

Damn! I hope I never get on your bad side! Ouch, that was a hot letter.<P>In rebuttal to the virgin debate - I have the utmost respect for somebody who chooses to remain a virgin until they are married. They are staying a virgin because of strong self-esteem and moral values. But some women, who might be unattractive or have self esteem issues, are not virgins by CHOICE - they're virgins because they haven't found anyone willing to sleep with them. That's the ONLY thing keeping that virginity there - it's not morals or virtues!<P>DI, try not to give her a second thought. The woman got a couple of nights of your husband's life - don't let her take another minute away from you two, in your mind or in your relationship. She definitely isn't worth it!<p>[This message has been edited by Carolina Belle (edited December 06, 2000).]

Hi in response to everyone...<BR>Yes she was a virgin and she knew exactly what she was doing. When i first fell in love with my husband and I knew he was single and loved me I was a virgin and I did not let him put his hands anywhere above my knees or below my waist. He did not rape her. and he did not know she was a virgin until in the process. And he was practically one too if you all would read my story in just found out titled I don't know what to beleive maybe you would understand my anger at her and why I felt she needed to be told off. But let me explain a little here.<BR>this did not happen in our marriage it happened during our engagement - we had a long distance relationship (lived on diff. continents) and hadn't seen each other for a year. I found out about this after 3 1/2 years of marriage because after three years of sneaking behind my back and trying to find out everything she could to harm us and trying to play his family off against me she gave up and decided to write love letters to him in which she dismisses me and my position in his life as if I am garbage and she is what really matters. as far as my husband's sexual experience that was only his second time. we had done it only once. we resisted due to our beliefs but succombed to temptation right before he left the last time but we were engaged by then. I think that if I after years of loving him and could hold out she could have controlled herself the first time she got alone with him. i am sure she had a role in instigating it because people have told me she always would get as physically close to him as possible. So he was basically as inexperienced as she was and he was young and I do not think boys are more responsible than girls are in such things. Boys are more likely to F*** anything that moves when tempted especially when hormones are raging. But girls are more likely to be scheming. She knew he was engaged, he told her clearly he did not want to go out with her and he was planning to marry me and she let him know that she could not marry him (due to religious differences her parents would not allow it) but that she was up for a fling. she may have lied hoping that once she got close enough he'd fall for her but that is her problem if she pretended to be cheaper than she was. every slut has her first time. If she was a virgin at heart she would not have used her virginity as a weapon to try to steal someone else's fiance. There are virgins who are saving it and those who are dying to get rid of it. if she had not gotten rid of it before that I am convinced it was only because A she is so unattractive she wouldn't really have many guys beating down her door and B lack of opportunity. She lives at home with her parents. This opportunity arose because she used her job as a means to get away with him (read my story) In their culture virgin brides are valued and she thought he would feel obligated to leave me once he realised he was her first. But he was also my first and he loved me. <BR>why is he the worse one because she was a virgin? because her future husband won't appreciate it? well his wife doesn't appreciate what he did either... he is paying now and she may have to pay later for what they did. <BR>I felt she needed to be told off properly because she has constructed a fantasy world of lies and deceit and I thought it was time the cold hard truth broke that down.<BR>I used foul language mostly the word f*** for a very good reason, in order to distinguish between making love and what they did. there is a difference you know...<BR>and b**** has a definiton (female dog) and I used it for that purpose because that is how she behaved.<BR>Yes he did something wrong but he slipped up in the face of temptation. She schemed.<BR>and no that was not about problems in our marriage since we were not yet married and I was not there and we always had a great time together and he says he loved me dearly. he says he just was horny and she acted like it would be casual no strings and he made the wrong decision. <BR>Let me ask you. If there were some food you were not supposed to eat but you had gone without food for a long time and were feeling very hungry and someone waved the forbidden food in your face don't you think maybe you'd give in and eat it. I know you can't compare sex and food but then again you can to a certain extent especially when it comes to young sexually deprived men and their hormones.<BR>And i know my letter was full of hate. I know it is wrong to hate but right now I can't help it especially since she has always been hateful to me even thought I used to be nice to her. and I have talked to her since then and she was insolent and insulting herself. if she were some sweet innocent thing she'd be sorry but she tells everyone she can how proud she is of what she did.<BR>Maybe you should know more details before you criticise.

Hi carolina,<BR>sorry i must have been writing my response to everyone else when you were writing yours. thanks for understanding my point of view. My thoughts exactly that she was a virgin not by choice but by circumstances. i know what it is like to be a virgin in love and I held out until I was 25 and engaged and I wish now I'd help out longer but I did it because he was going away and i wanted to form a bond between us. I felt married to him after that point.<BR>Thanks for all of your support

DI:<P>I did go back and read your longish post under "Just Found Out", but even knowing the full story (or at least as much of it as you told there) I tend to agree with the others on this thread. I'm sure that every BS has felt exactly those things towards the OW/OM and has longed to say exactly what you said to her. <P>But most don't, and it's generally a better idea not to, IMHO. Not because the OW doesn't "deserve" it. Not because the things that you say aren't "true" in some sense. But because it's in our better natures to forgive, to be charitable and understanding. Because what you said to her was ugly, and harsh, and mean, and added to the ugliness, harshness and meanness in the world, and because that's a bad thing.<P>Even reading the post of the whole story, the only thing that I saw was a confused young woman who was infatuated with your H, who felt that she loved him, and that he loved her, and who gave her virginity to him. Your H has told you one part of the story, but only after you've practically had to drag it out of him. My innate sense is that he's still not being completely honest with you. He may be telling you what he thinks you need to hear -- that it was totally meaningless, purely an animal response because she was available and he was horny. <P>And maybe that's the truth. But the OW's pain and heartbreak seems to say otherwise. I'm not saying that your H didn't ultimately choose you, or regret what he did, but that there may have been more there than he's letting on. This doesn't excuse what the OW did -- make a play for him knowing he was engaged, try to influence your H's family against you, etc. But it might help to make it more understandable.<P>You say that you sent the letter because you felt that the OW needed to be woken up, that she had constructed a fantasy of what her relationship with your H was. Maybe she has, and maybe she hasn't. But make no mistake. Sending the letter was about you, and about wanting to make yourself feel better by hurting someone else deliberately. I hope you DO feel better, so that some good can come out of it. But I don't agree that it was a good idea to send it.<P>Just a thought. I wish you and your H well. Take care.

Well I have to say that what Taxman said was well said and 100% on the mark. I was the WS and I can tell you right now that your husband was every bit as guilty as this OW. Maybe more since he was the one with the obligation, not her. Sometimes I am so floored at how fast a BS jumps to the rescue of the WS. Heck, they don't even have to make excuses for themselves because their BS will do it for them! My first question when I read your letter was "How old is this woman?" and the other was exactly the same thoughts that Taxman had. Your trying to hurt back. Try to put even half of the energy your putting forth towards hate into your marriage and you'll find much better results. When you feel like that go ahead and write it down if it makes you feel better but mailing it was actually a check mark against you, not her.

I agree with Taxman. Also there is no woman out there who is a virgin because no one wants her in my opinion. Any woman can have sex no matter what they look like. I mean it doesn't sound like this woman was a wart covered troll right? If she was why would your H have had sex with her? And did your H tell her that he loved her? Also since he wasn't married she probably did have real hopes that he was telling her the truth. I guess being a mother of a daugther probably around the age of this OW has made me think. How sad that she gave her virginity to your H. He sure didn't deserve it. I feel sorry for her. I know that one thing I do know for sure is that I don't know everything about my XH and the OW. Not that I don't hate her I do. And she knew exactly what she was doing and we were married and had been for 29 years. So I know about hating the OW.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by discarded:<BR><B>Also there is no woman out there who is a virgin because no one wants her in my opinion.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not true. Circumstances, self-esteem, and many other factors can prevent a virgin from having sex.<P>My ex-roommates/best friends/co-wrestlers were both virgins, but if you met them and heard them talk, you would think that they worked on Hollywood Blvd at night. One was especially bad, we'll call her "B". We would get front-row seats to WWF shows because our wrestling trainer was in the WWF at the time, and she would mark out, grab the guys' butts when they would walk by, and yell things like, "yeah, you want a good ride, I'm the best. Many men can attest to that..." I'd be sitting there like, "WHO can?!"<P>See, she would set these REALLY high standards lookswise, and as a 6'1", 200 lb carrothead with black Bert (of Bert and Ernie) eyebrows, plus she didn't have the nerve to go up to a guy (in a one-on-one situation) and talk to him. Sure, she got hit on once in a while, but she was a snot to those guys because she felt that they were "beneath" her. I became buddies with some of the guys there, and they all thought that she was a total tramp! And she was a virgin!!!<P>Out of the three of us, I was the only one who dated, and I dated some pretty hot lookin' guys (because I was secure with myself and fun.) One particular hottie (not a wrestler this time) and I had an instant connection when we started dating. We had only been dating for about 6 weeks, and we were not exclusive yet, but I fell for him at first sight. Subsequently, he began coming over to the house to see me a lot, and of course my roommate was there too. I kept telling her excitedly how I thought that this one was THE one, and she acted real jealous about it. Anyway, all three of us go out one night, we went home, and I was tired, so I went to bed. She ended up losing her virginity to my boyfriend that night. <P>It was her first opportunity to get within ten feet of a good-looking man, and she took it. But she was a slut long before she lost her virginity. I didn't blame him (BTW, this man is now my H) as much because we hadn't made an exclusive committment yet - I did burn his favorite t-shirt : , but I was more upset with her because she was my friend, she knew that he was with me, and she slept with him anyway. And lots of girls are like that - I've known a TON of them. <P>The only way I **might** be able to empathize with an OW is if she truly had no idea the man was with somebody. But if you know a man is in a relationship, HELLO? Why would you even want to touch him with a ten foot pole? I don't care if he says the relationship is bad - then get out it, stupid!<P>I shall get off of my soapbox now . <BR>

No he did not tell her he loved her. That is what he says. Okay I'll give a piece of info. My husband is a Muslim. He isn't the best one but there is one thing he would never do (i think - i always second guess everything because I'm that way) and that is swear to a lie on the Koran and he started to swear to his version of events on it but he said he wished I would believe his word. I stopped him because i felt I should try to believe his word.<BR>Secondly, there is no way someone can be in love with someone they met a few months before and went to lunch with once a month and otherwise only saw when he was out with his friends and she had contrived to be at the same place. She claims she fell in love at first sight and she justifies all of her actions based on that.<BR>

Dear Dying Inside, <P>I feel that you have received wonderful advice from people who really cared what you become after the A.<P>My WS's A led to the premature death of my beloved father because I refused to entertain the witch OP's calls and my father received more than an earful of the A plus screaming at him for trying to protect me. His chest tightened and he was hospitalised, and passed away within several weeks of knowing about his daughter's defiled marriage.<P>It is a personal choice but I refused to be contaminated by the witch's or whore's stories and because she was rejected, she really wanted to let me hear all the 'sordid truth' that she was afraid that my WS was not telling me. Of course, I made my WS tell me in the name of Jesus. It is difficult and a long drawn process to try to get the truth out but I really feel that to talk or show the bitterness and hatred I have would have given sweet victory to the witch OP. I refused to show her the power she had to damage what she wanted to destroy.<P>Inside of me, I was wrecked with anguish and all the undeserved hurts that you must also feel. But whenever vengence is on my mind, my pastor taught me to pray that vengence is the Lord's. How can I punish the way God can - He who created the typhoons and hurricanes? My revenge would be only a slight nip in the ankle....<P>I understand completely the hatred and the need to lash out. I did, too, but my anger is not focussed on revenge because my pastor did pray that the witch OP be dealt swift justice. I see the OP as a sinister robber that came in the night to steal from me. SHe was but a lowlife and has no business knowing that she stole something valuable which has being missed even now.<P>Do get out the anger, pits of jealousies through writing letters such as these but use them as a vent to get your venom out but try not to post them. The slut put the venom in you, you don't deserve this, but you have to say "I am stronger than the slut and her poisonous schemes, I shall spit out the slut from my life and use the energy to re-establish an affair proof marriage with my WS".<P>You can let others know about the slut OP but do not let her run your life. It is darn difficult but you need to concentrate on getting the truth from your H and discuss with a counsellor the issues of trust, marital communications, acceptable boundaries of behaviour, in-laws, etc..<P>Take care<BR>weep<p>[This message has been edited by weep (edited December 06, 2000).]

I was raised in a very fundamentalist religious home. We went to church every Wednesday night and all day on Sunday. When I left for college I left that too. Some of what has been written in this post has reminded me why. I consider what my XH did to me as wrong because he lied to me, because he made promises and broke them, because he had children and then devestated them when they were adults, because he told so many lies. I consider what the OW did was wrong because she knowingly went into a relationship with a married man who she knew had a vow with someone else. She never thought of the horrible pain this would cause me or his children, she thought only of herself. This is selfish and evil. But when I look at this post, I see someone who slept with a man without being married to him. But since she was engaged she was not wrong and it was not a sin. Then this same man slept with someone else who was not married to him. She is the evil OW who commited some kind of terrible sin. I don't mean to say that the pain that is gone through when someone you love and trust cheats on you isn't terrible. I wouldn't wish it on anyone except maybe the OW. I don't want it for anyone else. I didn't know pain like it was even possible. But there is no religious reason that I can think of why the engaged person was right here and the OW was wrong in terms of sinning. If you want to be really picky both commited the same sin of sex outside of marriage. It is just this type of double talk and two sides that I saw growing up that led me to leave that church and not look back. Now it's a whole different thing if the OW was still chasing the H after marriage and the W had to tell her to back off. But what she did with the man before he married wasn't any different then what the fiance did with the man if you want to be picky about it. So it's hard for me to understand why she is all the horrible things said in the post. Just this post reminded me of a lot of the double sides that went on and I saw growing up and all that left a very bad taste in my mouth that I still remember and am happy to not be a part of any more.

Dear Discarded,<P>I don't know which post or posts upset you, and maybe you should quote them so that the relevant members can reply. I see you have read the thread by Dying Inside in detail, and when I reread the thread, I confirmed your point that it was all done pre-marriage although they were spoken for.<P>When I replied to the thread, it was with the intention to help her get rid of the hatred and anger which is so evident in the letter. I think her feelings are there, whether the justification is total or not as she was not married. It is precisely this bitter spirit that has to be banished and we are all offering suggestions and experience to help her get to some terms with the situation.<P>It is true that fornication is wrong and I am stating this since you have noted this. And it is good that you have brought this point up because it could have been the critical factor in setting Dying Inside free from the 'hel* that her finace's betrayal put her through. She can see it from the point of view that it was fornication whatever you say and that it was not adultery. I illustrated by way of my beloved father's demise that sometimes As can be even more treacherous than a one-night stand, it could lead to a wise and kind old man being killed.<P>Dicarded, let not myself or other Christians be stumbling blocks in your path. We are all sinners, some repentant, some not. Like I was advised when I didn't want to go to church anymore because of the 'hypocrites in church': "Weep, if you found a perfect church don't go there because you would make it imperfect because all of us are imperfect. But realise that it is your walk with God that matters and not use the excuse of another to be something else."<P>I did so many unChristlike stuff upon the discovery of my WS's A. I asked forgiveness of God, slipped again and slipped again. I am only trying the best I know how, but because I know Jesus as a personal saviour, He has gently helped me to become less vengeful and spitting fire and venom had I not known God. Without God, and without the support and advice of Christians, I would have sought revenge and taken up all those opportunities that I could to make life unbearable for the slut OP - from her family, to her job, to her freedom, to everything. It was in times such as these when I could exact my revenge that I decided to keep calling my pastor to ask "Should I do this?". I decided to leave it in the hands of God. How can one not think even - in my case, it would have to be death for my beloved father's untimely demise. Why did it have to happen? Why can't I get even? Because vengence is the Lord's.<P>I hope I make some relevant points.<P>Take care<BR>weep

First of all I never said he was right and secondly there is a big difference between me sleeping with my fiance and her sleeping with my fiance. <BR>Since we are all throwing the Bible around here... Marriage ceremonies are things created by men. God intended sex to be a union between two people that made them one (and Isaac knew Rebecca - not and Isaac called 100 people to wear their best for a party..) and that is why adultery is such a horrible thing because it brings someone else in. In my opinion a couple who lives together for twenty years and has children is married even if they never had the ceremony. When a couple has sex with the intention of being married also in the eyes of the law and the eyes of society then they are simply cementing the God made union first. <BR>When someone seduces/chases or simply sleeps with someone they know is already commited then they are attempting to break something and steal something and that goes beyond the simple (or not so simple) sin of fornication.<BR>What he did was most definitely wrong but why is it that you people all assume that only men can take advantage of and manipulate women in sexual situations. Someone asked how old she is... she is 26 or 27 so she was 22 or 23 at that time - older than my mother was when she got married and old enough to know better. Older than most people are when they graduate from the University and are considered resposible adults. He was 25 at that time - not much older. So this is not the case of some 40 year old taking advantage of an 18 year old.<BR>I said I don't know what to believe (about what he tells me) but one thing I am sure he is not lying about is that he made it clear to her that he was in love with me because of the way he has told me this and also last night I remembered something that had slipped my mind because at the time I heard it I didn't know the whole story.<BR>Once his sister had been visiting this girl at her office and the girl introduced the sister to a work friend and told the sister later. "when i used to talk about (my husband) she used to tell me forget that [censored]!" and my sister in law got angry and told her that calling him a [censored] is an insult to her mother and also she asked the girl "did he take advantage of you? did he make you any promises?" And the girl said "No" and his sister knew about them sleeping together. So there you have it in the words of the OW herself.<BR>And thank you carolina belle for your support and understanding that a virgin can be a whore at heart or at least not so pure.<BR>I know of one girl who is technically a virgin who gives blowjobs to whoever wants one. Also you are all looking at this from an American viewpoint. In their country there are many more virgins by circumstance than there are in the US. Strict fathers who lock up their daughters is a big reason. Her father thought she was going away for work you can be damn sure he didn't knw she had invited a boy she had the hots for along too. Secondly like the girl in Carolina Belle's story she has unrealistic expectations of who is good enough for her. Yes she is very unattractive and that is not just my opinion. I'm sorry but most guys don't go for girls who could be mistaken for their mother. Usually marriages are arranged in her community but the mix of east and west means that kids do date and there are love marriages. But still most parents would prefer to have a hand in arranging their children's futures. Beautiful girls have more offers pouring in and certainly more attractive ones than the proposals girls like this one get. I know she hasn't gotten many and the ones she got she decided weren't good enough for her. I also know that the oldest sister in her family is considered to be the beauty - i've never seen her but apparently she looks nothing like this one and she got lots of offers which she turned down for years. meanwhile she went out with a married man - everyone knows about this. Anyway i know that this girl has an inferiority complex compared to her sister and I think it made her feel 'hot' and desireable to imagine she was wanted by this popular guy who was taken. Maybe it made her feel as good as her sister.<BR>and who says she has been pining away for my husband. she has been just fine. she seems happy and she has even gotten herself quite a reputation by running around with other Muslim guys. I think that dating muslim guys makes her feel exotic because she is something different.<BR>Anguish, heartbreak and pain are different from rage at losing. I talked to her and she was bold and defiant until I called her a loser and then she got angry. I think that is what is burning her - she lost. And she is someone who is used to getting her way. a ten year old child who doesn't know about this whole mess was describing her and she told me "she is someone who pushes and pushes until she gets what she wants and then if she doesn't get it she gets angry" <BR>She manipulated the situation as much as she could and she thought if she played her trump card she'd win but she didn't realise you can only manipulate circumstances and not peoples hearts.<BR>Once bitten I am suspicious by nature so that doesn't mean that my husband is necessarily lying just because I am suspicious. I can understand why he didn't tell me about this. it is a very difficult thing to tell someone you love. for one thing you fear you might lose them and for another thing you KNOW you'll hurt them. I think 90% percent of all people in a similar situation would rationlise that it was for their spouse's own good that they don't tell them. She pretended it was casual - no strings attached so he didn't think she'd talk. Then after four years it reared it's ugly head and bit him in the a**. I'm not sure i would have been able to tell him if I had done the same thing. The difference between him and me is that I wouldn't have done it. BUT not because I am immune to such tempatations but because I am the type who analyses everything someone says and does, so I usually can sense danger before it approaches. He is not at all self analytical nor does he take what people say/do beyond what it is on the surface. Unlike many goodlooking popular guys he is friendly to all types so just because she was unattractive he didn't think he couldn't be her friend. He is very nice to everyone. He tries to make people feel good about themselves. His mistake was in not realising what she really wanted. He told her once because she used to always snuggle up to him even in public that he wanted her to understand that he was engaged and in love and intended to marry soon and he was only interested in friendship. She told him she found him attractive but she knew she couldn't marry him so she just wanted to be friends too. He believed her. If she had been honest I think he would have kept his distance. why? because he took another female friend out to dinner when he was engaged. She was someone he knew from before and he ran into her again and he took her out. When he told her he was angaged and showed her my picture, she started to cry and he realised she had other expectations for their 'date' than a friendly dinner. he didn't take her out again. another story... as i said we were on again off again due to long distance. in one of those off periods he had a girlfriend for quite sometime. She loved him and he liked her a lot but didn't love her. but he says he could have married her if he was older (people who are used to the arranged marriage system don't find love necessary for marriage and think it can come after marriage) anyway she was a couple years older and desparate to get married but he told her he didn't want to marry until he was 30 and she didn't want to wait. anyway, while making out she offered him sex and he says he almost did it but he knew what she wanted and he knew that she loved him so he didn't do it because he would have felt like he was taking advntage of her expectations and would have felt obliged to marry her. <BR>This OW noticed how he withdrew when she came on too strong so she deliberately pretended to not have any expectations or strong feelings. He says he would never have slept with her if he knew she thought she was in love with him and would take it seriously. he says he probably would have even avoided too much friendliness with her.<BR>As for him he got caught up in a moment and ignored his better judgement for the sake of his own gratification which was very very selfish. but I do not think he set out to get in her pants. She organised the trip and it was honestly about work on his part. I've met other workers who were there and heard them talk about it so i know that isn't a lie. <BR>A male friend of mine told me that he thought most guys would do something like that if they thought it was no strings attached (ie they could get away with it) and that they could even sleep with a friend if she was casual about it.<BR>I'm sure he never told her he loved her because from the way he acted he obviously didn't. and he is not someone who says sweet nothings easily. I've never heard him tell his mother he loves her and I've never heard her tell him. He only developed the habit with me because I come from a very expressive family and with time he came out of his shell but he still doesn't tell other people like his parents. he never told his ex he loved her. even if he was having a fling with OW he would not have told her I love you. he is not that calculating of a person. and secondly from what he has told me i believe that if he was having a fling it was under the mutual understanding that it was nothing serious and just for fun. When she sent him the first I love you card I think that is the first time she ever told him that she loved him and in my opinion she doesn't love him because she doesn't know him well enough and she has been just fine for three years without him until she saw us together happy and it made her mad. I think it reminded her of her failure. She has convinced herself she loved him to justify what she did. i would have a hard time facing up to the fact that I had tried to steal someone else's sig other and have even gone so far as to sleeping with the guy only to ultimately fail. That she was attracted to him - yes I agree - and that she fixated on him as a solution to her otherwise bleak future as the wife of someone her father had to buy for her - yes i also agree. there is no such thing as love at first sight. There is desire and lust and attraction but not love. I think she found his whole world attractive - his friends who were always going out and enjoying themselves. she wanted to be the partner of a dynamic guy and be a part of his crowd. that place already belonged to someone who wasn't there (me) so she decided to worm her way into the position. <BR>and you are all mistaken in thinking that everything I have said is based on his story only. It is based on what dozens of other people have told me plus even some of what she revealed in her own letter. she is very transparent to me. from the time I first heard about her I saw straight through her actions. "i realise you never loved your wife" SHE realised it? that means he never told her he didn't love me. It sounds like she is trying to convince him he doesn't.<BR>"it was so hard seeing you (at the wedding) in January wanting to hold you and all of our friends watching us to see how we will react to each other" his friends knew nothing except that she was a friend of his and they thought she had a crush maybe but nothing serious and they never thought he was interested in her. In fact many different friends some who don't know about this all have told me at different times that when they were all together (including her) in a group they used to always talk about me and he would tell them how he missed me and was looking forward to me coming. She knows that but she wrote that to make it seem like I am the outsider. <BR>Also her letter was written in such a way to suggest they had not communicated since we married and also the conversation they had at that wedding showed that he didn't have a clue what was going on with her. Also about the perfume she claims he sent. Well in her letter she sent him her address which means he did not have it before that so it seems unlikely that he could have sent her anything and his aunt who lives in the same country where we lived after marriage twice sent her perfume for her birthday so I think she either pretends it was from him or assumed it. I don't know why he would admit to giving her a ring but not perfume if he had done it. Also he has given perfume that I know about to other female friends so if he had done it i think he'd admit to it and rationalise it away as the same thing.<BR>The ring: he doesn't like to feel like he owes anybody anything and if he did have a feeling that maybe she was going out of her way to help his career because she wanted more from him he is the type who would have tried to settle the score by giving her something to show his appreciation. he has given rings to his friends wives before as presents. also in her religion a ring is not the sign of a married woman. and even in his wedding/ engagement rings are something introduced from the west that are not taken as seriously as they are by othe cultures. His mother bought our rings after our wedding and he never wears his. i wear mine only if it goes with my other jewellery and on any finger I feel like wearing it on. He also says he did not give it to her directly before sleeping with her. he gave it to her that weekend as a thank you gift. i know that jewellery is the only gift for females that he feels comfortable selecting on his own and in his country it is the only nice thing that can be bought relatively cheaply. Nice Perfume & clothes are harder to find and more expensive than gold.<BR>Before I finish let me reiterate that what he did was very wrong but that doesn't mean she wasn't the one who manipulated the situation and that she is only guilty of sleeping with someone she loved out of marriage. I deeply resent the implication that my sleeping with him and her sleeping with him were the same thing. Such a view point comes from a misunderstanding (albeit a common one) of the bible's view on sex between a couple. i don't see the difference between living together and marriage and those people who convince themselves that they are different are fooling themselves. Also Our wedding was to be HIs kind which basically meant the ceremony was to be completely alien to me and none of my family was going to be there so it was the unting of the two of us that I feel was the real bond between us.<BR>

dying,<P>I wasn't trying to criticise. I was only trying to point out that such anger can often be destructive to restoration of your maital relationship. Often times it comsumes us and leaves little room for anything else. <BR>My other point was that she does not deserve your attention. She is made to feel important by you acknowledging her. The OW will cling to any bit of attention, negative or otherwise.<BR>I am sorry that you were so offended by my post. It was meant to show you that anger can often times be counterproductive. Please accept my apology.

cleopatra,<BR>sorry i get worked up at times. I'm not angry at you. I only found it offensive (and you were not the only one who seemed to operate under this assumption) that everyone is assuming she is innocent and or naive because she was a virgin. like I said before we are dealing with a different culture here and a girl choosing to remain avirgin because she is afraid of someone checking the sheets when she eventually marries or because her father only lets her out with a chaperone is not the same as one who decides for herself that she will not do anything. and the locked up virgins are known to be some of the most badly behaved girls on the sly. But I shouldn't expect americans to even understand this since it is basically alien to our culture these days. But all I can say is anyone who is shameless enough to invite themselves to someone elses wedding in order to obtain a further opportunity to pursue a guy is capable of other schemimg too. She has done too many calculated things for me to believe she was misguided or misled by him and from what I know she misled him - men can be naive too you know. I think it is pretty low down to befriend someone you know is engaged and talks openly about missing/loving his fiancee for the purpose of getting close enough to try to lure him away AND to use assurances of no strings attached and then turn around and use it as a weapon against his fiancee and him to try to prevent his wedding. That is not true friendship or love.<BR>Secondly I know strong hate is destructive but I can't helo it right now. It is very hard because she at least temporarily played my in-laws against me and being from a differnt culture it is hard enough adjusting to this marriage without someone attempting to undermine it throughout. She also used them to keep constant tabs on us. I know she was using them because she would lose interest in any of them who would not divulge info or assist her. again this is evidence of a very scheming person not an innocent. Plus she tells lies about me when I had not ever done anything to her and the real cincher is she tries to make it look like I did to her what she attempted to do to me. So yes i hate her and yes I know I should forgive her but I think forgiving him is more important to my immediate life and that is hard enough for me to deal with right now. <BR>i wonder why everyone assumes however that those who post here are christians. did I mention Jesus once. In fact I have been raised as one and my father lectures me evry day about forgiving her and praying for her but it is hard to focus on that when I have panic attacks regularly due what she has done. I did leave something out which I wrote in the actual letter and that was that Jesus tells us to forgive our enemies but I am not operating as a good christian now and I can only hope I can forgive her someday with his help. So I was not using my religion as a condemnation of her. Her own sin condemns her and she can be forgiven but in the long run it will only help me if I forgive her if she herself does not repent. I actually made reference to her religion (hinduism) which she used to justify her actions which was total bull since there is no way it condones it either. <BR>the only thing I really have taken offence at here is what someone (i think weep) said about my sleeping with him being the same as her sleeping with him. it is not and I don't care what narrow interpretation of the Bible people use to lable both fornication it is not that. If you read the Bible carefully you will see the term bethrothed - that means a commitment - and sleeping with someone else's betrothed was considered adultery (he shall be put to death because he has shamed his neighbours wife...) betrothal meant the couple was bound together but the man had not taken the woman into his house yet. If he took her andslept with her it was not consodered fornication -that automatically made her his wife. So my sleeping with him on the condition and understanding that we were to be married basically made us not legally but in the eyes of god married and that is why I consider this adultery. And weep also seemed to be unclear about the fact that the reason i was writing all of that to that girl was that she indeed was still chasing him after marriage and one child. If she were not still chasing him I probably would never have found out and while i would be angry if I found out I wouldn't have written her that letter. <BR>And I do think I did achieve something by writing it she is angry now and has backed off and if it is my letter that did it then I am glad i sent it. You see she used to refuse to listen to him when he would try to tell her he wasn't intersted. Even after i found out and confronted her she refused to talk to him because she knew what she has known all along but is refusing to admit - that he would tell her the truth and she didn't want to hear it from him or anyone in his family and he due to his own guilt didn't want to actively pursue it if she wasn't willing to listen. So I felt someone had to tell her what he feels about what happened and make her face what she did. And in some places my intention was to be mean (referring to her looks). But as I already explained the use of "foul" language was for another reason. Sometimes F*** is the only word that can be used to accurately describe a kind of sexual activity. Sex/ intercourse are clinical and making love implies additional things. But I actually removed things from my letter which would have hurt her most of all - for example how my husband had commented on how bad she looked last time he saw her. <BR>Anyway, i'm tired now I had two panic attacks last night which severely disrupted my sleep.<BR>I hope I didn't offend YOU cleopatra.

My opinion is probably different because of my own marriage and the way it ended. My H did leave me after 30 years of marriage and 31 when we divorced. He had an affair for 3 years before I found out and she is 20 years younger then me. Now she goes to all his public events on his arm and no one seems to give a hoot. Thats the way it is these days. Anything goes I guess. So I guess I am down on cheating MM in general and that comes out in my posts. But I do think that people seem to be able to find all kinds of things in the bible when they want. The mormons living in the mountains not far from me find reasons in the bible for them to have more then one wife. You found a reason why it was OK for you to have sex with your fiance but not for someone else. I know this is not a discussion about religion but that is one thing that just bugged the heck out of my growing up. Anyway my own opinion is that sleeping with someone who isn't married isn't cheating in terms of what adultery means but it may be a betrayal by the person who did it who had commited.

If you were engaged at the time your betrothed cheated, then yes, in my opinion, this was a betrayal and an affair.<P>This OW is still pursuing, regardless if your H is married or not. I feel no sympathy for this woman and I don't blame you one bit for telling her exactly what you think.<P>I am aware that I am in the minority here. In my situation, I did send the OW a letter. It is a year letter, and I DO NOT regret it.<P>Tell you what...she hasn't tried to worm her way into our lives since then.