Hi everyone... I know it's been a while, and as you can see, I've changed my handle... <P> From my point of view, things have been going pretty well. I account for all my time and<BR> have a cel phone with me so that Dylan can reach me whenever she pleases. I listen to<BR> Dr Laura every single day. (I started listening about a year ago, one of the ways I'd<BR> decided I'd 'do penance', and now find that I agree with most of what she stands for.) <P> For those who don't know her show, she gives moral advice to people on a radio talk<BR> show. They call up with a moral dilema and (most of the time) she tears the idiots to bits<BR> and gives moral support to those trying to do the right thing. <P> I figured my question could better be understood and answered by those of this board.<P> so for those with the patience and a position, here is my situation and a soapbox:<P> I'm working for a lady, building a big thingy. I'm kinda the head guy on the project, so I<BR> have to have contact and dealings with many different people. One of these people is<BR> the 'shack-up-honey' of an ex-girlfriend of mine. How do I deal with this?<P> There's the bare bones situation.<P> Here's the details:<BR> (I'm going to do my best to keep this short...)<P> ExG (Ex Girlfriend) and I dated about say, almost 10 yrs ago for about 8 months. It was<BR> pretty intense, and we broke up because I wanted to do other things than have sex.<BR> (Previously unheard of, btw) One of the reasons I left my job was because we worked<BR> together and she kept tempting me and I didn't want to be tempted. (also previously<BR> unheard of)<P> She, at the time of our dating owned a house close to where my boss lives, but then<BR> moved to another town. <P> Anyhoo, last week, I was leaving my bosses house and passed by ExG's old house. I saw<BR> a plumber's van in the driveway and the need for a plumber being one of the reasons for<BR> the meeting with my boss decided to pull into the driveway and inquire.<BR> The guy greeted me we chatted for a few moments and he invited me in to further<BR> discuss my needs. (that would be construction needs- no snickering)<P> Well, who should walk down the steps but ExG. Initial reaction... GAK!!! Of all the homes<BR> for me to ever be caught in, next to OW's this would be the worst. I was pretty<BR> flustered, but managed to appear to keep my cool. (My mind screaming - GET OUT!!! GET<BR> OUT!!!)<P> There was no charade about us not knowing each other and as we didn't part on 'bad'<BR> terms she didn't throw a potted flower at me nor I at her, but nobody said "hey, we used<BR> to have sex," if you get my meaning.<P> I dunno if she's mentioned to him the details of our past... I don't think so. I think it's the<BR> same guy she was dating when she was living in that other town I mentioned and he was<BR> pretty damn jealous. <P> During the initial meeting, it was mentioned that ExG was unemployed, having just<BR> finished working on a project similar to mine, and was, get this, looking for work. Gak! I<BR> skirted the issue, saying I wasn't really in charge of hiring... and thankfully it hasn't been<BR> mentioned again. You may all correctly assume that there is no way she and I will ever<BR> be working together. This is part of my dilema. If it comes up again, should I tell him why<BR> I can't work with her? My current plan is to tell him/her that I can't take her on out of<BR> respect for my wife, without offering any details. It's the truth. It would not be<BR> appropriate.<P> Anyway, the bottom line is... gak... it's very uncomfortable. But this guy seems to be a<BR> very good solution to a number of my problems. <P> Would she make a play for me if she got the chance? I'd say probably yes, unless she's<BR> completely changed, which I doubt. During the initial meeting, she hugged me in greeting<BR> and that's when my mind started doing the 'get out! get out!' thing. Though I can't<BR> quantify or explain why, the red flags went way up and I've learned to listen to these<BR> things. <P> There's no doubt in my mind that I would be resistant to any attempts on her part to<BR> seduce me. But I don't ever think the opportunity should ever arise, and intend that to<BR> be the case.<P> Part of my dilema, is this. Should I continue to do business with this guy, how do I ensure<BR> that my wife is not at home tripping out over this?<P> Naturally I told Dylan of the encounter the day it happened, as soon as I got home from<BR> work, and she knows who this ExG is, (I've mentioned her in the past) so I haven't hidden<BR> anything.<P> One of the consequences of my affair and all the lying and deception that went with it is<BR> that I now have zero credibility. The sad fact is that my wife cannot trust me, even if I'm<BR> telling the truth. This is the bed I've made and I know I have to lay in it. I accept this<BR> without hesitation and offer her complete and free access to all my email/Message board<BR> accounts, she carries the cel from time to time, calls me whenever she wants etc... Do I<BR> like being constantly checked up on? Not particularily, but at least it's my bed, and I<BR> gotta admit, Dylan is very subtle about it. Very very rarely do I 'feel' like I'm being<BR> checked up on.<P> This is part of the problem. Despite Dylans objections to plan A, she is the absolute<BR> master. If I were her, I'd be freaking out. (I mean her-her, not me-her) And yet she<BR> seems not to be... hmmm... <P> Anyway, that's not the point. How can I assure Dylan that not only am I not in danger of<BR> cheating, but that I'm dedicated to ensuring that the opportunity doesn't even arise?<P> Or do I cut the guy out completely and enforce a no-contact thingy? This sounds a little<BR> harsh when you put it that way, but it could be done gradually and diplomaticaly without<BR> too much inconvenience.<P> To me, the whole thing feels kinda suspicious, and I'm usually the most oblivious guy<BR> around. I can't really explain it though. I don't know if I'm being paranoid or<BR> overcompensating for my lack of credibility or being practical and cautious.<P> More details upon request. <P> Gak. Thoughts? Feelings? Comments?<P> Deut<P> -as usual, thank you for your patience with my typos and rempotary grammatical lapses.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by deut (edited December 06, 2000).]

Hi Deut, I can't help but wonder why this fellow and your exG would come as a package deal? <BR>You have said you are not in control of hiring and that should be enough for reason for that subject not to arise again. If it does just repeat your answer, don't imply any change in that area. <BR>I am sorry that your credibility is questioned, don't know the period of time since your A, but my h is dealing with that as well. Please don't think that Dylan is in the place she wants to be either, trusting again is a lengthy, involved process. <BR>This is your time to "shine" in regards to no contact with the exG. I question the hug, couldn't you avoid that? Red flags are just that RED FLAGS, don't even go there.<BR>Best of luck, L

Hi Deut!<P>First, congrats on being sensitive enough to realize there is some potential for trouble here. That's step 1.<P>I'd say that this makes you uncomfortable not only bcs of Dylan's possible reaction, but also it probably stirs up some little vague feelings of guilt in you. Oooh, and then there's the potential stickiness with this guy....sheesh!<P>If you can subtly avoid both this guy and his GF, I'd say that would solve all the issues and everyone will probably sleep better.<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi

Deut,<P>I posted to you in recovery. I think this is an excellent opportunity to try POJA with Dylan!

Thanks for your replies, folks...<P><B>Arik,</B> I think yer right. I'm going to extricate myself from this guy... Life comes with enough built in stresses, why add more? And it's not at all a matter of temptation. Not to sound like a whiny piss@nt, but after the emotional hell I've been through (really coming to terms with what I've done), I keep my temptations limited to my wife thank-you-very-much. It's not even a matter of 'resisting' anymore. There's simply not question, nor room for even a fantasy.<P><BR><B> You said that the trust issue is still huge. In knowing this, you must be able to see that if you are working even remotely close to this woman, there are going to be times where Dylan will worry, fret, wonder, imagine, and yes, even FEAR what might be going on. </B><P>Yer right on. She shouldn't have to endure anything else, and even though the situation is 'clean', because of what I've done there will always be that kernel of doubt. Why give it soil in which to grow, or even exist?<P> <BR><B> I have had the unfortunate occasion to see my wife physically sick with the pain that I caused her. I watched her dramatically lose weight. I saw her brush full every morning from the hair that kept falling out from the stress. I have seen (as have you with Dylan), the fear and pain almost completely destroy this absolutely undeserving, wonder of a human who shares my life. </B><P>Exactly, and for the reasons stated above I seem to have truly overcome the destructive tendencies towards temptation. I used to think that I'd have to live a life of rigid self control, but as I've tried to grow through this experience, the very thought of breaching the integrity of my family fills me with the deepest horror. Kind of a Pavlov thing, I think...<P><B> If you don't step back from this situation simply because you don't care to endure the slightest temptation, then I ask you to go and sit and watch Dylan sleep. </B><P>Every night, dude. Every night. <P><B> schizzo, </B> To tell the truth, this POJA thing... for a year now, Dylan's been saying we should do a "Poja" and I say "great idea, hon!" and that's that... no one mentions it for a month or so... I do like the idea, to a certain extent... certainly for situations like this.(I just don't think she'll ever be excited or enthusiastic about my go-bot online rts obsession)<P><B>I believe the PROCESS we go through is often more important than the decisions we make. </B><P>This intrigued me. I agree that the process is important. A process has changed my life over the past year... in subtle and profound ways. But the process is tied to a goal, and the two are intertwined. I also (thanks to Dr Laura and my wife) have a whole new appreciation for the importance of the decisions we make. The consequences of every decision we make or fail to make constitute our lives. The decision is the mechanism through which the process occurs. <P><BR><B> For me, trust in my h has been built not just from his actions, but from him being pretty transparent about what goes on inside his head, what situations *trigger* him lustfully... </B><P>I've kind of resigned myself to the fact that trust, once destroyed, takes a frikken long time to come back... if ever. With that in mind, I focus more on being trustworthy, that way, Dylan doesn't have to 'trust' me. She can check up all she wants and I tell her everything... When I do a post, it's hilarious... "Look, honey, I posted a post, I posted a post!" I have, on occasion, hopped up and down while saying this.<P>As for what triggers me lustfully, heheh... heheheheheheh... Dylan knows. Heheheheheheh... <P><B> Also tell her if there were any sparks when you saw exG. Tell her if YOU think it would be dangerous to work with him and/or her. </B><P>No, no sparks. And not dangerous, inappropriate. According to Dr Laura, inappropriate is at the same level as dangerous on the "to be avoided" list. Ultimately, I agree with that. And although the two don't come as a 'team' (to my knowledge), occasional contact with her would be unavoidable. No, I don't have any desires for her, yes, she's a decent person, but none of this is even relevant. <P>As for a Poja, my first choice would be to wrap things up with this guy. He's doing a certain part of the job, that's already been established, but there's no need for him to be involved in any other aspects of the project. <P><B>LAD</B>, my credibility isn't questioned, it's uh... been destroyed, along with my integrity and self respect. These are the consequences of my actions. It's been a year-ish since D-Day of a three month affair, and I know it's only the start of the very beginning of a long, long road. I've got good boots and I'm pretty determined.<P>The hug was weird. I briefly considered a duck and dodge tactic, but it didn't seem very diplomatic...<P><B> kam6318 </B><P><B>First, congrats on being sensitive enough to realize there is some potential for trouble here. That's step 1. </B><P>It's tough... working with power tools and mighty machines and being sensitive all on the same day... but I've been working on it... <P>You might have something on the 'vague feelings of guilt' thing, though I think that's tied more to the sudden realization that I was going to have to go home and give my wife something else to worry about (even if there's nothing to worry about- I'm sure you know what I mean) and you're bang on with the potential stickiness consideration. <P><BR><B> If you can subtly avoid both this guy and his GF, I'd say that would solve all the issues and everyone will probably sleep better.</B><P>Ka-ching!<P>Thanks all for your replies. There's a couple of sleeping babes upstairs I have to go and look at for a while before I drop into potentially one of the deepest sleeps of my life.<P>deut<BR>

Deut,<P>I have nothing to add to all the suggestions given accept...they seem to be good...<P>You know what to do...so do it...<P>Godspeed...<P><BR>Bill

Hi Duet,<P>hugs to you and Dylan.<P>What a man, that you're so concerned for your wife. As you should be, but you should be commended for your sensitivity and thoughtfulness towards your wife for this.<P>What everyone else has said, I agree with. <P>I realise that you have little trust or credibility where Dylan is concerned, but this is such an *old* girlfriend. !!! Does Dylan have reason to be concerned about her, or is it all tied up with the affair? I would hate my H to have anything AT ALL to do with OW#1, in any capacity, but that is a different scenario to his ex-g's from way before he met me.<P>Have you spoken to Dylan about even the plumber working on the same job as you? how does she feel about that? I agree, POJA would be ideal for you guys here. You never know, maybe even a little of that trust you are working so hard for will be returned to you.<P>Good luck. You'll know what the right thing is. And between you, you'll work it out.<P>my thoughts are with you both<P>Jo

<B>Bill</B>, thanks for you thoughts. Things are going that way pretty quickly. There are delays now, due to the cold snap that we're having and this plumber guy is starting to freak out. I can't wait to get rid of him.<P><B>Jo</B>, thank you too for taking the time to respond to this.<P><B>What a man, that you're so concerned for your wife. As you should be, but you should be commended for your sensitivity and thoughtfulness towards your wife for this.</B><P>Heheheh. Thanks. I like commendations... I call them 'points'. <P>[Homer Simpson voice]<BR> Points good.<BR>[/Homer Simpson voice]<P>The fact that this is such a long ago 'ex' is secondary to the nature of our relationship then. I still maintain contact with a few ex girlfriends but a) it's only via email (subject to review by W) and on the phone. In these cases, these are women with whom I was primarily 'friends'. Still, one is across the country. One is in Ontario, with 2 kids and I rarely speak with her. The other, a dear childhood friend is somewhere here where we live and I'm trying find her. According to the grapevice, she is 'married' and has kids, so there's no threat there.<P>In no way is this exG connected with my affair. My concern was that it was just inappropriate that I have *any* contact with her at all. Regardless of the level of 'risk' she may or may not represent.<P>Again, thanks for your replies. This kind of thing is important to discuss.

Hiya Deut!<P>Well, for once, I have very little to add to what everyone has said, plus you answered the questions I would have asked you already. <P>Just wanted to say, I know the feeling you were talking about - the pankicy 'get out, get away' one. I consider it a gift that I didn't have or take seriously enough before my grevious errors. Glad to hear you listened to it.<P>It must be said that I have a revulsion to ex gfs in general. I think they should all die. Stay away. You don't owe anyone any explinations as to what you do or decide not to do. And you don't have to socialize with this guy outside of work. Now that you know where she can be found, you know where to stay away from. <P>Deut, you have come miles and miles down the right road. Keep up the awesome work.<P>Give Dylan a hug for me, will ya?