Whether they felt it was even worth trying? The reason I ask is yesterday my WS and I went to lunch. She is attempting to break it off with the OM and considering trying to make our marriage work. I have been working on meeting her EN and not making LB's. We had a conversation about what it takes to make us happy and I started discussing how we need to meet each other's EN's. I explained that my greatest EN is affection. She has known this for years. Her response was she isn't about to be kissy Feely with anybody. It's not her style and she isn't going to do it... I attempted to explain that for me it's not necessarily holding hands or affection in public but an I love you once in a while or a hug at home for no reason... This basically got nowhere so I dropped it and turned to more pleasant things so as not to cause a major LB. That evening she came by to see the kids and we started discussing our situation again. We got onto the topic of the OM. She said she will just ignore him(the work in the same building) and said she is strong enough to never let it happen with him again. I explained a little about the No Contact policy. She immediately became irrate and said she will NEVER leave her job. I let this go and started telling her I was going to get coucelling from the Farley's and asked if she was interested. She said she would BUT if they even breathed a word of quitting her job she would hang up.... I get the feeling anymore that her only motivation in all of this is to move back into the house and so she will have more money. She even said at one point that if she does decide to come back I will have to buy her a new wedding ring as a token of starting over. I really struggle with this idea since it should not have any bearing on whether we try or not and so far it seems as if she looks at me as having been the CAUSE of her A and if I want her back I have to earn her back. I understand that I have made many mistakes in our marriage and I need to change my ways but feel as though this is a one sided battle that has no hope. The greatest fear I have is she will come back and it will go right back the way it was. I was not happy in our relationship as it was but I could never have had an A with anyone because I believe in total honesty and would have had to tell her. I also would have lived my life unhappy so that my kids had their family together. I know this isn't sound thinking but it's the way I was raised. I often ask myself why am I fighting for this marriage when I was unhappy with it also. I hold onto memories of how it was when we first married but often wonder if those days can come back.. I know without any effort from both sides it can't but I can only control my side. Any opinions or comments would be appreciated. Crick

Hey crick,<P>I'm probably the wrong guy to answer this, because I'm going through the same issues and doubts (as you saw in my "what if there is no fog" thread).<P>I guess I just want to sympathize that I'm having the same concerns. My W has also shown no interest in admitting (or fixing) her contributions to our problems (she's the WS). She doesn't see the need to have no contact with the OM (they work together, and she does not want to quit her job). <P>So here I am, trying to restore our marriage. I know that I've changed myself a lot in the last few months (she says that I am now the "perfect husband" ). But we are no closer to reconciliation than we were at d-day three months ago. And without her making changes to herself, I think the best we can hope for is a return to the way things were. Well, like you, I don't want that, because I was unhappy with the status quo. I want us to build our love to the way it was when we were married, which I think can easily be done with Harley's (not Farley's ) concepts. Otherwise, I'm in for a life of misery.<P>I guess the answer is the same as always: our spouses are still in the dreaded "fog", and are withdrawn. They are not willing to meet our needs, and in many cases do not want us to meet their needs right now. Eventually, as we show them how we've improved through our Plan A, they'll realize how good a marriage they can have and will land squarely on our side of the fence. At least that's the theory. Do I buy that? I dunno... What other options are there, though?<P>Hang in there!<P>AGG<p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited December 08, 2000).]

Guys - count me in. We were both unhappy with our marriage and she finally took an opportunity for "happiness." Shows no inclination of wanting to work on the marriage. I can't offer any fixes, just know that you're not alone. I sticking with the theory for the time being. We're so similar that there must have been successes before us. Let's stick together and not give up yet!<P>WAT

I think what really confuses me is my WS says she wants to try to make this work. She doesn't want the A to go on. She even invited me to a party with her and said it is important for her that I be there. I gladly accepted. But she doesn't want to show any reciprocation to me at all. I also feel like I'm under the time gun. I say this because currently she is living elsewhere and I'm in the house with the children. She is going to have to move out of the place she is at the end of January. She said that she wants to move back in then and we can try to see if it will work. I told her I would rather not make promises and take this day by day. If we are at a point then where I feel comfortable then we'll do it. She flatly said it's either that or divorce. Again trying to force the upper hand. I don't want to argue about this with her but on the same token I don't want her to think I'll just roll over to every demand she makes. She IS the one who had the affair... Guess I'll just play the plan until then and if I'm not comfortable that may be a good time to revert to Plan B.... Crick

Count me in on the "what else can we do?"<BR>We are all in an aweful situation not of our choosing. I keep telling myself that it is better to be actively trying to follow a plan that at least has some logical chance of success. Not only does it give us something to focus on and do, I think it helps us be better people and helps us restore our dignity by keeping on the "high road."<P>Crick, I understand your discouragement! I am there for at least part of every day. I have in the last month seen my WS come out of the fog several times and H is a totally different person. Unfortunately, he has gone back in the fog each time, but it does give me a feel for what he could be like again. I suspect it is the same with your WS.

You should include me in this indecision time as well. My H. won't tell me he is staying, but he expects me to work and pay for his time to watch his children. I work, my H. does not. Hubby said if he takes care of the children from 2:30 to 6:30 p.m. monday-through-friday, then i should pay for his credit cards, gas for his car, and whatever needs he may have. I though taking care of your kids was called "parenting"? So should I accept his offer? I am not sure the EA Is dead yet. I have no physical proof, just his word.

One of the issues I have to figure out is not does my WS want to come back BUT why... I'll never forget when she told her father that she was moving out and was probably getting divorced. I asked her what he said and his reply was "I can't believe you're leaving another dream home". This is the kind of logic she has grown up with. This is what I'm up against... She also said once when I told her she was not to move back in the house until she was committed to us and our relationship she said "you'll never know". In other words she can fake it... Lost a lot of trust right there. I believe fully in the saying "hurt me once, shame on you... Hurt me twice, shame on me". I feel like she's just pretending because she knows that in another couple months she won't have her friend to stay with. I want her back but not for the wrong reasons... I know that even if it is a front it eventually will come to the surface. I just hope I feel comfortable with it by then.... Crick

Smugglermi,<P> No that's not even sound logic. Who's paying you while you watch them? Wasn't he involved in any way into bringing this child into the world. My WS pays for half of all bills including our house. I pay for the other half but also raise our children. I ask for no money. This is not my job, It's my responsibility. One that I must say is the most satisfying thing in my life at this point. Logically it would be very easy to put holes all through that statement... Who pays you when you are watching them after 6:30? Obviously nobody since he doesn't work. Mind boggling to me how anybody can look at their children as a job... Are they work...You bet. But the best job this guy has ever had... Just my .02 cents.. Crick

have more & more doubts everyday. we don't seem to able to reach to each other to even try. I know our boys are the only reason we are both here, I'm not sure if this even good for them anymore. I don't know why we are even bothering to try,

Add me to the list. In order to continue the focus on saving my marriage, I have to block out the concerns I have in some areas, and the question of whether we could meet enough of each others ENs to make it work. This might sound selfish, but I don't worry about me meeting my wife's ENs, because I've read so much, done alot of research and thinking, and recognize what I have to do. It is all so simple. However, the way I would describe our problems was more of a combination of my wife LBing and me not meeting some of her ENs. She can be very judgemental and just make a strange decision on a whim, and when she is in those moods, I find it difficult. When she is not like that, we can have alot of fun together. My fear is that if she isn't willing to change, I'll not be able to show her the affection that she wants and needs. I'm like others in that I would go with the flow forever just to be together for the kids. However, now that I know about MB and the principles, I don't see that it has to be an unhappy situation. It can be wonderful, but it requires my wife to buy into the concepts. Admit the A, get some help, NO CONTACT (and I wouldn't even mention that yet because I know her answer), really work on us. She has the attitude crick mentioned, things like "if anyone says a word about bla bla bla, thats it...I'll snap". Just wreckless. Looking back, this type of behavior got worse over the last year, so I'm hoping that the more stable person that I used to know could resurface, and if both of us can do better, that it would be like fuel on the "happy" fire. That is the way I have to think to continue the battle.<P>But I'm certainly on board the train of doubts, because I just don't know if she is capable of letting this big wall down. I'm hoping the A and fog is causing it all, and she can tone it down. In any event, I'm still waging my own war to try and save our marriage.