I can't be the only person in the world with this awful, shameful problem. I am married and adore my husband. We have great sex and I love making love to him. The problem is that, often, the only way I can get aroused enough to have a climax is to think of (very mild) homosexual fantasies. In other words, I'll imagine two women kissing or fondling each other. Heterosexual fantasies also work for me sometimes, but less and less. I have never had a homosexual relationship, never wanted to, never want to. I am repulsed by the whole idea, and have very strong religious prohibitions toward it. I've never been in love with a woman, but I've had strong romantic feelings for, or been in love with, many men over my lifetime. I feel emotionally satisfied by heterosexual sex. I feel emotionally satisfied by heterosexual relationships. But I have to strictly keep myself from watching any movies that contain lesbian innuendoes. Because it's an immediate turn-on. I am so ashamed, so self-condemning and distraught. I discovered this trait of mine at a time in the beginning of my marriage when my husband encouraged me to watch pornographic movies with him. The movies would arouse me but I could never feel good about them, or myself, afterwards, so I refused to continue. But I found out that the lesbian parts aroused me the most. It was a shock and the only way I have been able to deal with this is not to think about it. But lately I have been wondering if there is a cure for me.<P>There is terrible anguish and loss of self-esteem associated with this trait of mine. Is there any hope for me?

badsecret,<P>Welcome to this board. I am not in the psych. business, but I will try and offer something for you to think about. Is it possible you need to think about something "forbidden" to really let go? That you have to be in a "frame" of mind, that makes you "let go" of the day to day things and inhibitions?<P>I don't know, when I read your Post, those are the thoughts that come to my mind. Many people fantasize before or during sex. Some people even do it with their partner. Have you ever discussed what turns you on with your H?<P>Hopefully, someone more educated in these matters will come along, but it seems to me that your need to fantasize to really enjoy sex and you are doing that.<P>Sorry I couldn't be of more help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

I read somewhere that it is pretty normal for women to look at other women.. when they see a couple alot of women would look at the woman first... comparison, compitition, I cant remember what the reason they gave was.<BR>Lora

I wouldn't worry about it. You enjoy being with your H, and have no wish to act on these fantasies...they are simply fantasies, and have no bearing on reality. It would be different if you found yourself actively lusting after other women.<P>Did you know that at least one study I've read found that MOST women had one or more fantasies that they would never want to actually do or have done? For many people, fantasies do represent simply the thrill of the forbidden, and serve to heighten excitement, and that is it. <P>

I think that if it's really bothering you that you should explore this with a professional Christian counselor, not a pastoral counselor who doesn't have clinical training. I am a counselor but have not studied this issue in depth--but have had lesbian dreams and do have lesbian friends. Possibly you have unmet needs from your mother for nurturance. It's just a thought. I don't think just telling yourself not to worry about it will make it go away. It never hurts to explore something that's obsessive or really bothering you. Who knows what you might find out about yourself that could help your relationship with your H?<P>------------------<BR>

After my 1st message, I recall that somewhere on this site Harley mentions women and porn. As I recall, what he said was that while fewer women get into it than men do, he has found that those that do often report liking to look at other women, and that this does not seem to be related to any hs tendency at all. <P>Anyway, thought I'd add it FWIW...<P>Kathi<P>

Bad Secret,<P>I'm sorry to hear that you are so ill at ease with some of the thoughts you are having. I hope you will trust me on this one - what is happening to you is NOT he end of the world. You are not sick, perverted, or even close to being abnormal. You don't need to be 'cured.' <P>It is very normal to fantasize while you are having sex. It enhances the experience for BOTH partners, since your heightened response will in turn further arouse your partner. That your fantasies frequently revolve around women is not as big of a deal as you might think! That too is common, and I personally think that it is harmless. <P>A counsellor I had been seeing for awhile said one thing to me that keeps me sane at times - your thoughts are NOT bad things. It's what you do about your thoughts that is right or wrong. Your thoughts just are - they simply exist. You don't deserve to give yourself a biblical complex over them.<P>Hanging in There expressed an interesting idea about maybe not feeling nurtured by your mom. I have yet anouther idea - if you were ever sexually abused, that might have something to do with it as well. BUT - that's not to say that homosexual fantasies are always a result of something traumatic happening - sometimes they just exist. <P>I do, however, get the strong feeling that in your case, your H may not be fufilling your needs as much as you think he is. Now, it's not time to pick your hubby apart, but it's time to pick YOURSELF apart and try to figure out if you are somehow missing something - affection? Foreplay? Emotional support in other areas of your relationship? Only you know the answer, and don't e too quick to dismiss tis as a possibility - women are famous for supressing their own needs and desires to a fault.<P>Want my honest suggestion? If, after some soul-searching, you still can't find the answer? Share your thoughts with your H. Why are you not letting yourself watch the lesbian parts on porno? You already watched the hetero parts! Watch 'em, girl, and if a fantasy pops up, see where it takes you. <P>I feel the same way that you do about the adult movies - I am often left feeling empty and a little nauseous from watching the men and women together. Gee, maybe it's due to the exploitive nature of so many of those films, hmmm. But the women never fail to flip the right switches in my mind, and I don't know why either. My H knows this, and I believe it bothers him a bit - he may be worried that I would decide to act on those fantasies someday. (Which I won't, J.)<P>One final thought I'd like to share - as a rule, our society tends to force unrealistic expectations on a couple's sex life together. Technically, we are NOT supposed to indulge in fantasies of other people when we are haing intercourse - the ideal is to be looking into your partner's eyes, thinking of only them. You are supposed to climax thru the act of his thrusting alone too, did you know that?. Yep. Oh, sure, it's ok if IT happens during oral sex, but you are not supposed to need that for longer than 3-5 minutes and are pretty much expected to climax then, during sex (several times would be nice) and of course at the exact moment that your partner does. And God help the person who has homosexual fantasies during sex - it's sinful, abberrent, perverted and worng. See? Lots of other people's notions of what sex should and should not be follow us into the bedroom and nip at us from the sidelines. And all those notions serve to do is make us feel like crap about who we are inside - they never actually change the essence of who we are inside. <P>You can go to a christian professional cousellor and attempt to be reprogrammed to have only the kind of thoughts he or she thinks you need to have to reach climax, or you can begin to accept the individual person you are, and investigate your heart on your own and with your partner's help. Then, once you have done that, you may more easily accept what is going thru your mind and begin to enjoy sex with your hubby without beating yourself up for your thoughts anymore.<P>Whatever you choose to do, I hope you and your husband have many more happy, fufilling years together, and I hope you take time to appreciate your fortune in having a good relationship with him. Come back and post more!<P>Khyra <p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited December 10, 2000).]

Badsecret,<P>Hard for me to touch this one cause I'm a guy. But I couldn't resist .<P>I printed out your question and showed it to my wife. I wanted to let you know that there is nothing wrong with you. You don't need to be "cured." A LOT of women have the same fantasies and arousals as you, and they are not homosexual. <P>My wife seems to think that it has to do with the way women are portrayed in the pornos as compared to men. "Girl-girl" scenes are often more sensouous than heterosexual scenes, and this is probably why it is a turn-on (for both men and women). Does this mean that women who watch it or get aroused by it want it to really happen to them? Most of the time no. Fantasies are just that - fantasies. It is not meant to be real. <P>We actually saw a recent survey in which the majority of women responded to having the same fantasies and arousals as you. So, I would say that you are okay and have nothing to worry about. Just try to enjoy yourself and your sexuality. It does not mean you are gay.<P>I hope this helps.<P>-HD

Wow! I just came back to the forum after a weekend. Was dreading reading responses to what I had written, thought I was probably going to be lynched and crucified! But you all have been so kind and supportive and accepting.! You'll never know how far that has gone to helping me deal with this already. I was actually very surprised at the acceptance of female fantasies about other females.<P>Here is what worries me: if I continue to use these fantasies (and that's exactly what I do, just USE them to get my body's reaction so my husband will not be upset if I don't have a climax each time or have one quickly) . . . if I continue to use them, I am afraid that true homosexual tendencies will develop inside me. <P>(I wish Dr. Harley would put two cents in on this one, but I guess I'm just trying to get free counseling!! ha!)<P>I think I will seek out a Christian clinical psychologist because I am very uneasy over all this, even with what I read from all of you about accepting that it's common. Common doesn't necessarily mean healthy or right, in my mind, although my standards on this are only for myself and I wouldn't dream of criticizing or imposing my standards on anyone else. I haven't even sorted out what I think about homosexuality in general in society, so I just try to follow the rule of Christian love and compassion. I don't think people choose their orientation or what turns them on. As one of you said, thought, acting on them is a whole different story. But even then, how understandable it is that someone would act on impulses that are central to their nature?<P>I do find that, in spite of those fantasies, I am repulsed and revolted to my soul with the thought of actual homosexual behavior. But as one of you suggested, I may be a person who needs to go mentally to the forbidden to be tripped over the line. My parents made their sexuality seem like some forbidden thing they were shamefully indulging in. And my aunt is a lesbian (she did try to fondle me once, when I was 9 years old, and it broke my relationship with her and damaged my trust of people in general).<P>Anyway, thank you all for taking the time to care enough to respond to my message in a positive way. God bless!

Hi Secret,<P>I won't call you "bad" Secret anymore .<P>You know what I find to be sort of odd - I too was molested by a family member - my uncle in fact (who also, as it turns out, has some major homosexual tendancies). I think that sometimes, when kids are molested, they are introduced prematurely into the intricate world of sexuality. That is their (our) first real taste of things to come. And as repulsive, shameful and embarrassing as it seems to many of us, thru our lives we find parts of that experience to be arousing when played out in other ways. For example, you with the Aunt who fondled you - now you find yourself turning in your mind to that basic initial sexual experience outside your self to arouse you enough to climax.<P>This is not true for all sexual abuse victims, but it is true for a shocking number of us, as I have had the misfortune to find. In discussing these very private ideas with my closest girlfriends, I find this to be true for the majority of us. So, maybe it's true for you. Looking at it as an adult I realize now that I am not 'dirty' or bad for the things that turn me on, even tho some are related to what happened to me as a child. <P>Anyway, it would be great to see you find some closure with this. The biggest obstacle I see in your way is the religious aspect of your thinking, but therein lies my own huge bias As you put it, you have your own internal set of standards to which you hold your behavior, and these fantasies have crossed the line with you. I'm glad that you have gathered the srength to decide what to do about it for yourself, and I hope you find the answers you seek.<P>Khyra