Today my 3 year old spit out a bite of banana and then proceeded to grind it into the rug with her foot. When I scolded her, she threw the rest of the banana on the floor. My 13 year old son yelled at me and told me it was my fault for getting angry at her. <P>Apparently I am not allowed to get angry, no matter what anyone does. My son gets angry and yells at me or his sisters at least a couple of times a day. This is exactly what his father has always done - he is allowed to get angry, but neither the kids nor I are. I think my H's father did the same thing. Although our daughters are just as likely to get angry as their brother is, they don't generally seem nearly as bothered by others' anger. I am so worried that he has learned this from his father and is going to repeat his father's pattern when he grows up.

Hi Nellie<P>I dont have a 13 year old but I old have a 6 year old who sort of does the same thing. It seems that your 13 year old is trying to control his environment and assume control over you and how you operate.<P>My suggestion is pour on the love and understanding while explaining to him that YOU are the BOSS and how you raise your 13 year old and your 3 year old is up to YOU and not him. <P>Good Luck..<P>PS.. There are alot of great books out there to help understand kids. One I can recommend is "How to talk so your kids will listen and how to listen so your kids will talk" (something like that, not sure on the authur, sorry.)...

Nellie<BR>What did you say to your son?<BR>13 is such a tough age in the first place.<BR>They have so many emotions blowing around inside. I wouldn't take this too much to heart but keep your eyes open.<BR>My 16 year old is very outspoken. It is just natural for him. Okay he gets it honestly. I do know that I learned when he was very young not to have a battle of wills with him.<BR>This may just be your son's way of letting out other emotions. Or he may be trying to be the man of the house.<BR>Just some thoughts.

HI Nellie, I am so sorry you are dealing with these tough kid issues along with everything else. <BR>I have a few boys, a bit older than yours. My H was gone a lot while they were growing up and the oldest thought he should be the MAN of the house after about 12 yrs of age when dad was gone. There was sure a power struggle that went on for quite awhile-sometimes very overt as your son, and sometimes much more subtle. <BR>Tough to deal with. Sometimes I could talk to him and be real patient but other times I would just want to strangle him! <BR>My only advice is that it does take soooo much patience which is something you may feel very short of right now. If you cannot deal with him effectively at the time, then I would just walk away, gather yourself together and approach later when both of you are calmer. Whether he is taking after dad or grandpa doesn't matter-it matters how he learns to deal with his frustrations and you are really his only positive role model right now Nellie!! Take heart in knowing they do come out of this-mine is fine now.<BR>YOu have a very tough task ahead of you, stay strong. (((hugs)))

It is interesting that everyone who responded seemed to think this was a control issue. None of my kids have ever hesitated to voice their opinion concerning how I was raising the other kids, or anything else for that matter. All my kids are outspoken, and I have never discouraged that. My son has said over and over again that he doesn't want to grow up, he would much rather remain a child. He has been consistant about this since he was 6 or 7. I agree that 13 is a difficult age, and it is probably the worse possible time for him to desert his son. <P>What bothered me about this situation was not that he disagreed with my child-rearing methods. He can disagree all he wants, and he is welcome to express his opinion. I was bothered by the fact that he is so sensitive to anger in others, yet he doesn't see why it is inconsistent for him to get angry, but think it is terrible for other people to get angry. It bothers me mostly because I have come to the conclusion that that was the basis of his father's issues with our marriage. He was constantly irritable with me, and the kids, and sometimes other people, and was prone to yelling. Yet he once told our son that he left because I yelled at him too much, and most of his complaints about our relationship had to do with times when I expressed anger, though most of the time I went to great effort to placate him, and until the affair we only argued once in a while. Both he and our son seem terrified of anger in others, yet they don't see how their anger affects others. That is what worries me.

HI Nellie, I urge you to step back and try to look at it with an unbiased view for just a sec. Yes, I know we all mentioned the control issues, but that could be because often kids cannot get their emotions in check, so they go to control mode. It is a manipulative tactic in many ways. My kids were always allowed to disagree and voice opinions also-it did not always change my mind, but I owuld listen to their arguments. It made them great debaters now that they are older!!

cl,<BR>I am not sure what you mean by unbiased view. I don't have a problem with him being angry at me. I don't have a problem with him wanting to control things, not that I would necessarily let him. I have a daughter who definitely likes to be in control, so I know what it is like to have a child like that. I just wonder why he it bothers him so much to see other people angry, either at him or someone else. It obviously bothers my H too, and I am just trying to understand. No one enjoys having someone angry at them, of course, but if they can't tolerate it at all, why would they not realize that their anger could bother others?

My H is the same way. He has absolutely no problem with expressing his anger over any and everything (sometimes for hours! ), but he does not seem to think that I'm ever supposed to express anger toward him, although that has never stopped me if I was mad enough. What I'm talking about is just little stuff--not really that I'm angry, mostly just irritated by something. Just like the time he left a compartmented box of screws on the edge of the ironing board and then tossed some clothes on top of them. I came along without knowing the box on there and bumped the ironing board, the box fell off, and I said something like "Dammit!!" He came in and started in with, "I don't want to hear your s***. Don't you start in on me!" I wasn't really mad about the screws scattering all over the floor, just irritated. However, the way he reacted DID make me angry. So, I told him, "Fine, then you pick up the screws," and went out to water my flowers and cool off. To my surprise, he did pick the screws up and sort them out.<BR> If I get angry at someone else, he will listen, but he doesn't want to hear any more than the bare essentials unless it's something that makes him mad, too.<BR> Mostly, though, he just has this attitude that he can do what he wants and nobody had better say anything about it. <BR> Hopefully, that will change, as I addressed that problem in my little tirade of last Saturday.<BR> Maybe your son is afraid that if you show anger toward your 3-year-old, the next time, you'll show anger toward him, and he thinks that by displaying anger toward you, he'll avoid that. It may be that because you've apparently tried to placate your H, he's trying to elicit the same behavior from you toward him and his siblings.<BR> And, there's nothing wrong with allowing your children to express themselves honestly, but I do think that your son may be trying to control your behavior, but not deliberately. Your comment, "Apparently I am not allowed to get angry, no matter what anyone does," indicates to me that you feel this way, too.<BR> You're the mom, remember? Yes, make every effort to understand how and why your children feel, but remember that you are the one who sets the boundaries--not your kids. Right now, your kids are bound to be very troubled and confused; and maybe they need the extra security of knowing that you are willing to put aside your own grief to talk with them and set reasonable boundaries for their behavior. Your son needs to understand that expressing anger toward you is fine, but yelling at you is not.<BR>

Nellie, you are wondering how your son picked up conflict avoidance tendencies? I would guess because he hasn't been shown an example of how to resolve conflict. It sounds like your husband didn't have the skills, and would not allow you to resolve any conflict in your home as an example.<P>I have the same problem in my home. But my husband is beginning to realize it.<P>I called him a conflict avoider the other day (okay a sorta LB) (smiley wink) and asked him if I knew what that meant to me. He didn't answer (in his conflict avoider style - probably because his mind went to the mode of what can I attack with to get her off of my back - probably sounds familiar to you, right?). But I interrupted his thoughts and said "To me a conflict avoider does not know how to resolve conflict. A good offense is a good defense."<P>Does this sound like your situation?<BR>

I wonder how much of it is not seeing conflict resolution take place, and how much of it is genetic. Two of my girls are somewhat conflict avoidant also, the little one is too young to tell, and two of them just love conflict. From things my H has said, I think he blames me for the 16 year old's argumentativeness - I don't know that it is my fault, except in that she may have inherited my genes. I always thought philosophical debates were fun. The seven year old starts arguments for no obvious reason, and is very explosive. I guess my H expected all the kids to grow up self-absorbed and emotionally withdrawn like he did. I bet his house was a lot quieter when he was growing up than ours is.<P>My H always resolved conflict by:<BR>a) yelling at the kids to be quiet<BR>b) repeating over and over that whatever it was that he wanted to do was the only possible way, and shooting down any alternative suggestions as unworkable and basically stupid<BR>b) going along with what he thought I wanted (often incorrectly), and then being resentful<BR>or<BR>d) pretending to agree to what I wanted, and then going ahead and doing exactly what he wanted<BR>

thanks sweetpea!! That is sort of what i was trying to explain...could not quite figure out how. Not enough brain left.....it is fried from overwork this week.